Pre-Game Talk: Sens @ Lightning Oct. 11

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Keys to the game

• Sport better than the other team can sport
• Score goals to offset the other team which will also itself score many goals
• Give one hundred and ten percent
• Miss all the shots we do not take

I think the team that wins will win because they outsport the other team resulting in more points. Limiting the other teams points will increase the chances of victory.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Why take Andy out? He's the starter and had a great game. Play him against the stronger team, give Lehner the weaker one.

Makes sense to me.

Anderson played well against Nashville but Lehner plays better against much tougher teams, imo.

 

[StefanW]

Anderson played well against Nashville but Lehner plays better against much tougher teams, imo.

Only if the tougher team is named Boston.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Anderson played well against Nashville but Lehner plays better against much tougher teams, imo.

Source? Only team he has a winning record against are WPG, CBJ, NYI, NYR, PIT, STL and TOR. Only PIT and STL in that batch fall under the "tougher team" moniker, IMO. Maybe NYR.

Meanwhile, Anderson has a winning record against 18 teams (albeit, with a much larger sample size and therefore more opportunities to do so.)

Only if the tougher team is named Boston.

Nope. Lehner's 2-4-2 lifetime against Boston. 2.63 GAA, albeit with a good SV%.


I like Lehner. I want to see him succeed. Hell, I own a shirsey of his from Binghamton. But the repeated rhetoric from his hardcore fans that just isn't true is irritating.

 

[StefanW]

Nope. Lehner's 2-4-2 lifetime against Boston. 2.63 GAA, albeit with a good SV%.


I like Lehner. I want to see him succeed. Hell, I own a shirsey of his from Binghamton. But the repeated rhetoric from his hardcore fans that just isn't true is irritating.

Yeah, I'm hardly a hardcore Lehner fan. I am willing to give him one more season to start proving to me that he can put it together consistently at the NHL level.

The team has found ways to lose against Boston when Lehner was in net. However, I would argue that Lehner kept us in a lot of those games when we were pretty badly outplayed. Although I have grown to hate save percentage as an omnibus stat of goaltender quality, in this case I believe it provide some insight into how well Lehner played in those games.

Lehner's numbers against Boston took a hit last season in one start (5 goals on 42 shots) and one relief appearance (two goals on 9 shots in relief), to be sure. Two years ago he was .944 with a 2.15 GAA in 5 games against the Bruins, which is pretty darned good. The year before he pitched a 32 save shutout in his only game against them. So it is not as though the "Lehner is great against Boston" stuff is unfounded, or came out of the blue.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I like Anderson a lot but Lehner is much more clutch, imo. He elevates his game to the opponent while Anderson plays at a neutral level regardless of the opponent.

I remember two years ago we were struggling towards end of the season and could possibly lose out on a playoff spot Lehner won a MUST win game against the Flyers.

Again, against Boston in final game of season 2 years ago he was terrific and we won crucial, crucial game.

Lehner was also terrific against STL last year and early in the year last year he was lights out against the heavily dynamic western teams giving us a chance to win those games.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Yeah, I'm hardly a hardcore Lehner fan. I am willing to give him one more season to start proving to me that he can put it together consistently at the NHL level.

The team has found ways to lose against Boston when Lehner was in net. However, I would argue that Lehner kept us in a lot of those games when we were pretty badly outplayed. Although I have grown to hate save percentage as an omnibus stat of goaltender quality, in this case I believe it provide some insight into how well Lehner played in those games.

Lehner's numbers against Boston took a hit last season in one start (5 goals on 42 shots) and one relief appearance (two goals on 9 shots in relief), to be sure. Two years ago he was .944 with a 2.15 GAA in 5 games against the Bruins, which is pretty darned good. The year before he pitched a 32 save shutout in his only game against them. So it is not as though the "Lehner is great against Boston" stuff is unfounded, or came out of the blue.

Oh, yeah. Not a shot at you (or anyone, really.) By rep alone, you tend to be fairly non-extremist in your views.

And yeah, he's been solid against Boston. No arguments. My issue was with the comparison to Anderson. IMO Anderson hasn't played significantly worse against Boston to make the "better play" argument overly valid.

I like Anderson a lot but Lehner is much more clutch, imo. He elevates his game to the opponent while Anderson plays at a neutral level regardless of the opponent.

Consistency in a goalie is drastically underrated. I'll take a goalie who can be relied upon for an even performance throughout than a goalie with massive peaks and valleys. And when Lehner puts it together and gets that element of even play to his game, I'll be at the front of the bandwagon.

 

[StefanW]

I like Anderson a lot but Lehner is much more clutch, imo. He elevates his game to the opponent while Anderson plays at a neutral level regardless of the opponent.

I remember two years ago we were struggling towards end of the season and could possibly lose out on a playoff spot Lehner won a MUST win game against the Flyers.

Again, against Boston in final game of season 2 years ago he was terrific and we won crucial, crucial game.

Lehner was also terrific against STL last year and early in the year last year he was lights out against the heavily dynamic western teams giving us a chance to win those games.

More recently though, Lehner was absolutely terrible last season when the playoff dream was still alive and he had the net after Andy was hurt. If you look at his Feb record and how he performed it is quite brutal:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/5283/robin-lehner

Once the playoffs were out of reach he completely turned it around and closed out well, but that is the opposite of clutch goaltending.

The game against St Louis was in November. It would be a tough sell to argue that anyone at the time felt as though the season was riding on that one game. So while it was an excellent performance, it was not really a clutch performance.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Oh, yeah. Not a shot at you (or anyone, really.) By rep alone, you tend to be fairly non-extremist in your views.

And yeah, he's been solid against Boston. No arguments. My issue was with the comparison to Anderson. IMO Anderson hasn't played significantly worse against Boston to make the "better play" argument overly valid.

Consistency in a goalie is drastically underrated. I'll take a goalie who can be relied upon for an even performance throughout than a goalie with massive peaks and valleys. And when Lehner puts it together and gets that element of even play to his game, I'll be at the front of the bandwagon.

Both Anderson and Lehner inconsistent. Anderson a bit more consistent while Lehner wins games you want/need to win.

Anderson is no more consistent than Lehner is.

I think Anderson will have a big year this year hopefully. He just needs to tweak his playing style some more. Btw, if you think Anderson has played just as well vs Boston..... yikes.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

More recently though, Lehner was absolutely terrible last season when the playoff dream was still alive and he had the net after Andy was hurt. If you look at his Feb record and how he performed it is quite brutal:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/5283/robin-lehner

Once the playoffs were out of reach he completely turned it around and closed out well, but that is the opposite of clutch goaltending.

The game against St Louis was in November. It would be a tough sell to argue that anyone at the time felt as though the season was riding on that one game. So while it was an excellent performance, it was not really a clutch performance.

Not trying to make excuses for Lehner but look how he was managed prior to that stretch. Inactive for weeks then thrown to the wolves.

He was 2-4-3 in that stretch with .901 sv% lol @ absolutely terrible.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I'm a massive Anderson fan and I have no problems with Lehner playing, he needs to play too. Plus Anderson always plays great against his former team the Panthers so I'm betting he's getting that game.

I do miss the Anderson pad stack poke check from the side of the net he hasn't used that save selection in awhile.

 

[StefanW]

Not trying to make excuses for Lehner but look how he was managed prior to that stretch. Inactive for weeks then thrown to the wolves.

He was 2-4-3 in that stretch with .901 sv% lol @ absolutely terrible.

The "2" in the 2-4-3 came when our playoff hopes were done, so yeah terrible is the right word.

Lehner has not played a meaningful game for an even longer period than was the case after Andy got hurt last year. Shall we blame the summer layoff if he does not do well at the start of this year? Being an NHL goaltender means being ready to go when you get tapped. No excuses. If he was too emotionally fragile to take over the net later in the year, when we were in the stretch drive for a playoff spot, because he did not get the net after a small hot streak then please, lets just save some time and put him on waivers right now.

The saving grace is that while some fans will make shoddy excuses for him, at least Lehner has in interviews (radio near end of last year, sorry no link) owned up to how he played without making those same excuses.

 

[StefanW]

I'm a massive Anderson fan and I have no problems with Lehner playing, he needs to play too. Plus Anderson always plays great against his former team the Panthers so I'm betting he's getting that game.

I do miss the Anderson pad stack poke check from the side of the net he hasn't used that save selection in awhile.

Yeah, I have no problem at all with Lehner playing either and even posted about it earlier in the thread. The fanboy stuff just irks me. We need to dispassionately focus on facts and how to pull out the most wins.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Sometimes you need a little magic to pull out wins -- something that does not compute with your form of logic.

 

[Vaclav Varada]

Steve Lloyd suggested it could be a challenge from the Sens staff for Lehner to face off against Bishop.

 

[Quo]

GDT awaits.