Post-Game Talk: SENS in Winterpeg, Sunday 7:00pm on SportsNet

[Burrowsaurus]

I think I may be one of the few fans here, that thinks the Coaching staff know more about their players, and how to use them, than a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who think they know better.

By the way, how do you know the coaching staff that draws up plays on the PP for Bobby Ryan one-timers? Do you have a copy of their playbook? Or is it because you saw Booby Ryan take a one timer, once, on a PP and just drew that conclusion?

Stop with the bs "no one can disagree with the pros they know more than you" why on earth would you ever join a discussion board if that's your attitude? That's a serious question. What do you want.

What do you want

Wat are you here to discuss. We can't discuss game plan because any gameplan anyone suggests that differentiates from what the coach has done is "stupid" and "acting like we know better than the coach".

Any lineup changes we suggest are "stupid" and "acting like we know better than the gm. Stupid armchair gms". What are you here for

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So I think we can agree, that both Burrows and Dumont are bottom six, perhaps bottom 3 forwards.

So you're suggesting that Ottawa used their first round pick, and selected, in White, a bottom six forward?

why. Not. Nothing wrong with a talented two way bottom six

Guess what. The more talent you have in the bottom six the deeper you are.

 

[Uchiha]

why. Not. Nothing wrong with a talented two way bottom six

Guess what. The more talent you have in the bottom six the deeper you are.

Dumomt and Burrows aren't two way players. That can't score.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dumomt and Burrows aren't two way players. That can't score.

I'm saying white should be there over them.

I don't get why the bottom six has to be plugs. Like just have talent throughout the lineup. And why because white is a "first round pick" he can't play in the bottom six. Like. Why not lmao. Is it top 6 or nothing. (White is prrrrrrrrrooooooobably a third liner anyway)

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm saying white should be there over them.

I don't get why the bottom six has to be plugs. Like just have talent throughout the lineup. And why because white is a "first round pick" he can't play in the bottom six. Like. Why not lmao. Is it top 6 or nothing. (White is prrrrrrrrrooooooobably a third liner anyway)

I think the obvious answer is that they don't want to rush White, especially a) durning a prolonged should crushing slump, and b) to play 4th line minutes instead of Dumont.

It's not he can't play in the bottom six, it may be that the coaching staff prefers that at this point in his development he gets top six minutes in what is still a difficult pro league.

W definitely don't want to start looking at ANY rookie as a saviour right now, it's not fair, and it's not helpful.

 

[BondraTime]

So then why do you think the Coaching staff put so much faith in him, by playing him on the PK way more than any other D man on the team, and almost always plays vs the opponents top players, while at even strength, and he's only a minus 2? Can you explain that?
Or do you just like to complain?

I don't know? Because the coaching staff is forced to because our other D are Oduya/Boro/Phaneuf/20 year old Chabot (who played more than Ceci in the last gongshow, yet Ceci was on for 4 goals against)? I don't know why it took Boucher so long to play Chabot either.

I don't like complaining. This is the first season I have felt the need to in my 12+ years here, that I'm sure some can attest to. I don't go out of my way to complain, if I do, there is likely a reason.

1 thing I really refuse to do is be blissfully ignorant, seemingly unbeknownst to myself. That is one thing I really don't want to do.

What do you see that everyone else is missing that gives you such confidence in the way things are being done here

There is being positive, and then there is just looking past the realities of things.

Do I like Ceci as a player? Yes

Do I like Ceci in the role he has been unfairly thrust in? No

Has Ceci been abused in this role? Yes

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

One thing I find with Ceci, is that he is very fragile mentally. When things are going well and he has confidence, he looks really solid (as in #3D solid). But when anything wrong happens, all that disappears and we start seeing the over-thinking, hesitating and the double-clutch.

He's been in the league long enough now that those mental chasms should be disappearing....but they aren't. I'm starting to wonder if he'll be like a Del Zotto,, and always have confidence issues.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I don't know? Because the coaching staff is forced to because our other D are Oduya/Boro/Phaneuf/20 year old Chabot (who played more than Ceci in the last gongshow, yet Ceci was on for 4 goals against)? I don't know why it took Boucher so long to play Chabot either.

I don't like complaining. This is the first season I have felt the need to in my 12+ years here, that I'm sure some can attest to. I don't go out of my way to complain, if I do, there is likely a reason.

1 thing I really refuse to do is be blissfully ignorant, seemingly unbeknownst to myself. That is one thing I really don't want to do.

What do you see that everyone else is missing that gives you such confidence in the way things are being done here

There is being positive, and then there is just looking past the realities of things.

Do I like Ceci as a player? Yes

Do I like Ceci in the role he has been unfairly thrust in? No

Has Ceci been abused in this role? Yes

What I see, in Cody Ceci, is that the coaching staff is using him in the role that he does best, and it's not a glamorous role, and it's a role that pits him vs the leagues top players, each and every game. He also is the number one D man, in minutes, on the team for TOI during shorthanded situations.
If the Coaching staff thought there was someone better suited for that role, do you think they'd continue to put Ceci in those situations?

No, we're not talking about the best PK in the league, or the best Defensive pairing (Ceci and Phaneauf) in the league, but as far as the coaching staff is concerned, it's who they put their faith in these roles.

If you read today's paper, an a lot of other GMs in the league also see the value of Ceci, in the role that he plays for the Senators, and a number of them have been trying to trade for him .................. if he was as terrible as fans on these and other hockeyfan websites suggest that he is, then how do you account for the interest around the league for him??? Are all these GMs wrong, and fans on this website right???

I think there is being negative, and then there is just looking past the realities of things.


Bruce Garrioch

Published on: December 4, 2017 | Last Updated: December 4, 2017

Depending on the kind of trade Dorion wants to make, the most tangible asset the Senators have is defenceman Cody Ceci. The 23-year-old is highly regarded by many teams in the league but the Senators have never been willing to trade him in the past and the last thing Dorion wants to do is make a change for change sake.
You can bet teams are calling to see if the Senators have any interest in moving Ceci, who has been a lightning rod for criticism. The Avalanche wanted Ceci as part of the deal that brought Duchene here last month, however, Dorion wasn’t going to give him up and got Nashville involved to help make the deal reality.

 

[BondraTime]

What I see, in Cody Ceci, is that the coaching staff is using him in the role that he does best, and it's not a glamorous role, and it's a role that pits him vs the leagues top players, each and every game. He also is the number one D man, in minutes, on the team for TOI during shorthanded situations.
If the Coaching staff thought there was someone better suited for that role, do you think they'd continue to put Ceci in those situations?

No, we're not talking about the best PK in the league, or the best Defensive pairing (Ceci and Phaneauf) in the league, but as far as the coaching staff is concerned, it's who they put their faith in these roles.

If you read today's paper, an a lot of other GMs in the league also see the value of Ceci, in the role that he plays for the Senators, and a number of them have been trying to trade for him .................. if he was as terrible as fans on these and other hockeyfan websites suggest that he is, then how do you account for the interest around the league for him??? Are all these GMs wrong, and fans on this website right???

I think there is being negative, and then there is just looking past the realities of things.


Bruce Garrioch

Published on: December 4, 2017 | Last Updated: December 4, 2017

Depending on the kind of trade Dorion wants to make, the most tangible asset the Senators have is defenceman Cody Ceci. The 23-year-old is highly regarded by many teams in the league but the Senators have never been willing to trade him in the past and the last thing Dorion wants to do is make a change for change sake.
You can bet teams are calling to see if the Senators have any interest in moving Ceci, who has been a lightning rod for criticism. The Avalanche wanted Ceci as part of the deal that brought Duchene here last month, however, Dorion wasn’t going to give him up and got Nashville involved to help make the deal reality.

Well, yeah. That's kind of my point. Ceci is unfairly put in a role he isn't suited for because we have nobody who is suited for it, which can be seen by the eye test, as well as the ranks of our PK and defence. Ceci is the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices, that doesn't mean he is a succeeding in his role.

He will continue to struggle because he is forced into this role. Ceci looked his best when he was playing easier minutes, with more offensive chances. His play now is a far cry from the 10 goal season prior to his assignment in the tough position he is now faced with.

He gets the shit end of the minutes, no doubt. Do we have anyone who can eat those minute effectively? Probably not. Does that mean that Ceci has been effective? Definitely not.

Boucher had Ceci on the 3rd pairing last game, so maybe he may see his ES minute eased a bit, while getting his role on the PK.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, yeah. That's kind of my point. Ceci is unfairly put in a role he isn't suited for because we have nobody who is suited for it, which can be seen by the eye test, as well as the ranks of our PK and defence. Ceci is the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices, that doesn't mean he is a succeeding in his role.

He will continue to struggle because he is forced into this role. Ceci looked his best when he was playing easier minutes, with more offensive chances. His play now is a far cry from the 10 goal season prior to his assignment in the tough position he is now faced with.

He gets the **** end of the minutes, no doubt. Do we have anyone who can eat those minute effectively? Probably not. Does that mean that Ceci has been effective? Definitely not.

Boucher had Ceci on the 3rd pairing last game, so maybe he may see his ES minute eased a bit, while getting his role on the PK.

I always believed that karlsson should get the tough assignments. Current form is obviously an issue but with karlsson playing against top line and probably winning the possession battle against them ceci can slide down a bit

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Well, yeah. That's kind of my point. Ceci is unfairly put in a role he isn't suited for because we have nobody who is suited for it, which can be seen by the eye test, as well as the ranks of our PK and defence. Ceci is the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices, that doesn't mean he is a succeeding in his role.

He will continue to struggle because he is forced into this role. Ceci looked his best when he was playing easier minutes, with more offensive chances. His play now is a far cry from the 10 goal season prior to his assignment in the tough position he is now faced with.

He gets the **** end of the minutes, no doubt. Do we have anyone who can eat those minute effectively? Probably not. Does that mean that Ceci has been effective? Definitely not.

Boucher had Ceci on the 3rd pairing last game, so maybe he may see his ES minute eased a bit, while getting his role on the PK.

All good points, and that is basically my argument vs those who don't see the big picture. They see a couple of mistakes by Ceci, and now he "has to go" or "be sent to the minors" .......... without any thought as to who takes the minutes he plays in those situations, and thinking they know way more how to handle him better than the current coaching staff.


Ceci is also a right shooting D man, and for some reason some fans are no aware of how right shooting D men are a rarity on most teams, and are highly sought by teams who need one.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think I may be one of the few fans here, that thinks the Coaching staff know more about their players, and how to use them, than a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who think they know better.

By the way, how do you know the coaching staff that draws up plays on the PP for Bobby Ryan one-timers? Do you have a copy of their playbook? Or is it because you saw Booby Ryan take a one timer, once, on a PP and just drew that conclusion?

We just don't need someone echoing what the coaches are saying .. We hear what they are saying already. Coaches and GMs are people too. They have their preferences and their egos and they are bent in a certain direction. They are not beyond question or criticism.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

We just don't need someone echoing what the coaches are saying .. We hear what they are saying already. Coaches and GMs are people too. They have their preferences and their egos and they are bent in a certain direction. They are not beyond question or criticism.

The difference here is that a low information fan, can, on this site post all kinds of suggestions on who to sit, trade, demote, fire or who to play on the PP or PK ............ but their suggestions don't have the downside of losing your job if it (suggestion) goes south.

Coaches in the NHL are almost always fired if they don't use their personal in way that produces wins ......... and last season, Boucher and his staff took the Senators almost to the Finals, and no one was questioning how he was employing his players ........ but now, in a losing streak, people (on this site) all know better, but they're not one of the 31 hired NHL coaches for some reason ......... so I for one, don't give much weight to their low information suggestions. they're entitled to their opinions, but I don't have to agree with them, if they don't follow any recognizable logic.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The difference here is that a low information fan, can, on this site post all kinds of suggestions on who to sit, trade, demote, fire or who to play on the PP or PK ............ but their suggestions don't have the downside of losing your job if it (suggestion) goes south.

Coaches in the NHL are almost always fired if they don't use their personal in way that produces wins ......... and last season, Boucher and his staff took the Senators almost to the Finals, and no one was questioning how he was employing his players ........ but now, in a losing streak, people (on this site) all know better, but they're not one of the 31 hired NHL coaches for some reason ......... so I for one, don't give much weight to their low information suggestions. they're entitled to their opinions, but I don't have to agree with them, if they don't follow any recognizable logic.

Good we still don't need someone pretending to speak for the coaches. If you don't like the suggestion.. say why... vs well the coaches see it this way ... so you must be wrong...

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The difference here is that a low information fan, can, on this site post all kinds of suggestions on who to sit, trade, demote, fire or who to play on the PP or PK ............ but their suggestions don't have the downside of losing your job if it (suggestion) goes south.

Coaches in the NHL are almost always fired if they don't use their personal in way that produces wins ......... and last season, Boucher and his staff took the Senators almost to the Finals, and no one was questioning how he was employing his players ........ but now, in a losing streak, people (on this site) all know better, but they're not one of the 31 hired NHL coaches for some reason ......... so I for one, don't give much weight to their low information suggestions. they're entitled to their opinions, but I don't have to agree with them, if they don't follow any recognizable logic.

Except lots of people especially around here questioned Boucher's decision making last year as well. From the PP to how they use Hoffman and the Ceci - Phaneuf pairing to the lack of Harpur/Claesson.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Except lots of people especially around here questioned Boucher's decision making last year as well. From the PP to how they use Hoffman and the Ceci - Phaneuf pairing to the lack of Harpur/Claesson.

Fans complaining about coaching decisions is as old as time. People complained about Scotty Bowman and his coaching.

 

[Alex1234]

I think I may be one of the few fans here, that thinks the Coaching staff know more about their players, and how to use them, than a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who think they know better.

By the way, how do you know the coaching staff that draws up plays on the PP for Bobby Ryan one-timers? Do you have a copy of their playbook? Or is it because you saw Booby Ryan take a one timer, once, on a PP and just drew that conclusion?

So you are suggesting Ryan takes those one timer even if its not in the playbook hey?
So why do they put him on the PP if he's not following the playbook?
They put Ceci ,as you always ,say on the PK because he is good at it.
But they put Ryan on the PP despite him not following the playbook?

Its either Ryan takes those one-timers because they want him to and they are at fault for doing that
Or
He takes those one-timers despite the coaching staff not wanting to but they always put him back on the PP anyway even if he's not following the playbook wich they are at fault to do so

You can't always defend coaching staff and management
Sometimes they are wrong too

 

[Alex1234]

The difference here is that a low information fan, can, on this site post all kinds of suggestions on who to sit, trade, demote, fire or who to play on the PP or PK ............ but their suggestions don't have the downside of losing your job if it (suggestion) goes south.

Coaches in the NHL are almost always fired if they don't use their personal in way that produces wins ......... and last season, Boucher and his staff took the Senators almost to the Finals, and no one was questioning how he was employing his players ........ but now, in a losing streak, people (on this site) all know better, but they're not one of the 31 hired NHL coaches for some reason ......... so I for one, don't give much weight to their low information suggestions. they're entitled to their opinions, but I don't have to agree with them, if they don't follow any recognizable logic.

Don't take it too personal
They are paid millions to take those decisions
And were just on an internet discussion board
Nothing we say is going to change anything
We are just voicing our opinion and debating

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So you are suggesting Ryan takes those one timer even if its not in the playbook hey?
So why do they put him on the PP if he's not following the playbook?
They put Ceci ,as you always ,say on the PK because he is good at it.
But they put Ryan on the PP despite him not following the playbook?

Its either Ryan takes those one-timers because they want him to and they are at fault for doing that
Or
He takes those one-timers despite the coaching staff not wanting to but they always put him back on the PP anyway even if he's not following the playbook wich they are at fault to do so

You can't always defend coaching staff and management
Sometimes they are wrong too

According to you. they're always wrong....... so I guess they'll all be fired by Christmas, right?

 

[Alex1234]

According to you. they're always wrong....... so I guess they'll all be fired by Christmas, right?

I wrote : Sometimes they are wrong too

But whatever

 

[Karl Prime]

Coaches are just like everyone else - they make mistakes. Boucher's use of Ceci would hardly be the only time a Sens coach has made bad personnel decisions.