Post-Game Talk: Sens 4 Oilers 3

[KarmaPolice]

Seguin looks good where he is, but what would he look like 'here'? In this losing vortex, playing under Eakins, for Mact and KLowe? Being promoted as the Next One. If he gets hurt, they rush him back because 'we're selling hope'. The coach controls your diet, your nightlife, your off season, your spare time. The POHO thinks you have to be a morally sound, respectable, good Canadian boy.

Seguin would be a basket case if he played in Edmonton.

Probably so. Like I said, both are the best players of the draft, and would've been happy with either. Hard to say exactly how Seguin would've developed here with exact certainty. But whatever. This team is a joke anyway. Doesn't matter who we draft because this management can't put together a team that can win; crappy defenseman choices, crappy goaltending choices. Not addressing the centre situation.

There. I changed to the post to say "I would still take Hall." Like it even ****ing matters. We're a **** team with either of them! And will continue to be a **** team when the likes of a ****ing Nikitin is getting icetime over young and very promising players like Marincin and Klefbom simply because of his contract, just as ONE example. What a complete debacle. People here think WAY too much about the micro and not nearly enough of that macro. I think it's a problem also endemic and pervasive in management as well. Joke of an organization. Complete and utter embarrassment.

 

[sportsdynasty]

Calgary has scored 12 more goals than the Oilers this year

12

goes to show you how hard work beats small, soft, skilled players every day of the week

A third of Calgary's goals comes from the blueline. Our forwards are fine in comparison to Calgary, it's our DMen that are useless offensively and defensively.

Calgary will make a push for the playoffs with stellar defense and goaltending. The Oilers once again have failed to improve defense and goaltending, and for that reason they are basement dwellers.

 

[KarmaPolice]

A third of Calgary's goals comes from the blueline. Our forwards are fine in comparison to Calgary, it's our DMen that are useless offensively and defensively.

Calgary will make a push for the playoffs with stellar defense and goaltending. The Oilers once again have failed to improve defense and goaltending, and for that reason they are basement dwellers.

Amazing what can happen when you let your young and talented defenseman play. You can end up with a Brodie.

I think Klefbom could be that. Maybe even Marincin. Brodie is 24. Klefbom is 21, Marcincin is 22. Are they ever going to consistently play these guys so we can find out what we have? No, I think they'd rather just play Nikitin, because we're gunning for the Cup! Can't wait for the parade.

 

[hctu]

Seguin has always been surrounded by good vets, Hall and co. have not.

I would have never picked Seguin over Hall and I still wouldn't. Hall is a beast and Seguin is a primadona.

This x 1000!

I can't believe this topic still comes up from "Oiler's fans". Give your heads a shake if you think this is our problem. People keeps forgetting about Seguin's attitude problems in Boston. We'd be even more of a laughing stock if we took that guy!

 

[TheRebuild]

This x 1000!

I can't believe this topic still comes up from "Oiler's fans". Give your heads a shake if you think this is our problem. People keeps forgetting about Seguin's attitude problems in Boston. We'd be even more of a laughing stock if we took that guy!

If the Oilers had taken Seguin, Seguin would be currently living beneath an underpass somewhere, muttering under his breath while rocking back and forth with a beard down to his knees.

 

[dustrock]

And the Bruins might have another Cup if they had Hall.

 

[frag2]

Yeah, I've never understood this sudden reverence for Seguin. Hall has never looked like the worse player of the two and he's spent his career in the worst possible working conditions. Even with all the organizational obstacles in his way he's continued to be a top ten player and improve every year. He's never quit on his team.

Seguin had the good fortune of going to a veteran team that was miles and miles ahead of the Oilers. Even with all those privileges he still managed to screw things up for himself. Let's not forget that the Bruins were posting a guard outside his hotel room on the road during the playoffs because he was sneaking out and partying. He was eventually traded over his off ice crap

How would these two look if their draft order was switched? Would Hall have been better if he'd grown up sheltered in the Bruins system? How much better would he be right now?

What about Seguin if he'd have ended up here playing for this toxic organization? I suspect his development would have been stunted like so many of our other first round picks. Would he even still be here?

Lots of evidence out there to suggest that not only did we make the right pick that year but it could of been a disaster if we'd gone the other way.

He would just ask for a trade.

Seguin seems to have difficulty separating his on and off ice life. For all the reports about Hall being a ******, he still performs on ice regardless of circumstances.

 

[Mr Positive]

It is intensely frustrating to essentially hand over a game like this. It seems like .500 is an important milestone to truly believe that there is any progress this season. The team flirts with that mark but then falls apart. A win last night would put a much better spin on the game on Sunday because that .500 milestone would be in sight. Instead, even a win on Sunday would still only be the start of our climb out of this hole. Most fans will be focused on how bad things would be if we lost to the Coyotes, and I don't think they would feel that way if we won against the Sens.

It can be torture. I almost wish the team was worse so we could at least criticize the team with certainty. But no, they are actually playing better, but with no consistency from game to game or even period to period it's hard to say if we didn't just trade one sin for another. We can't even say which players are the problem and which ones we have to keep.

Imo, the only answer is to do nothing. We are paralyzed. We might as well just let this all play out yet another season and hope something certain emerges, one way or another.

 

[Replacement*]

It is intensely frustrating to essentially hand over a game like this. It seems like .500 is an important milestone to truly believe that there is any progress this season. The team flirts with that mark but then falls apart. A win last night would put a much better spin on the game on Sunday because that .500 milestone would be in sight. Instead, even a win on Sunday would still only be the start of our climb out of this hole. Most fans will be focused on how bad things would be if we lost to the Coyotes, and I don't think they would feel that way if we won against the Sens.

It can be torture. I almost wish the team was worse so we could at least criticize the team with certainty. But no, they are actually playing better, but with no consistency from game to game or even period to period it's hard to say if we didn't just trade one sin for another. We can't even say which players are the problem and which ones we have to keep.

Imo, the only answer is to do nothing. We are paralyzed. We might as well just let this all play out yet another season and hope something certain emerges, one way or another.

I have no difficulty "critiquing the team with certainty" and due to one of the things that you pointed out that this club has no difficulty giving games away. Maybe we'll get him next time or next period has been a longstanding tendency with this club. One that isn't dying easily.

Quite frankly this team isn't prepared to work hard enough to win most nights. They don't want to. This is a team that has learned how to lose. Unlearning that is never a given.


Let me also point out that this was a home game. The first home game in a couple of weeks. Not showing up in the first period would be inexcusable in many markets. If the team cares this little, why should anybody care?

 

[Mr Positive]

I have no difficulty "critiquing the team with certainty" and due to one of the things that you pointed out that this club has no difficulty giving games away. Maybe we'll get him next time or next period has been a longstanding tendency with this club. One that isn't dying easily.

Quite frankly this team isn't prepared to work hard enough to win most nights. They don't want to. This is a team that has learned how to lose. Unlearning that is never a given.


Let me also point out that this was a home game. The first home game in a couple of weeks. Not showing up in the first period would be inexcusable in many markets. If the team cares this little, why should anybody care?

I agree that there is a problem here, but what I'm saying is that there's no way to know what the source of the problem is. A perceived lack of effort can mean a lot of things, most of which have nothing to do with effort. A team that doesn't function properly will have a lot of wasted effort. There are many reasons that a team doesn't function properly. I'm guess you are singling out coaching, but the last time that the fanbase was this certain that coaching was the problem was with MacT, and history has largely vindicated him on that one. It's the easy answer. If Eakins isn't the problem and we get rid of him just for the sake of change, then the result could be destructive.

To me it seems like there is improvement that is worth cultivating a little bit more.

 

[mactforcoach]

I agree that there is a problem here, but what I'm saying is that there's no way to know what the source of the problem is. A perceived lack of effort can mean a lot of things, most of which have nothing to do with effort. A team that doesn't function properly will have a lot of wasted effort. There are many reasons that a team doesn't function properly. I'm guess you are singling out coaching, but the last time that the fanbase was this certain that coaching was the problem was with MacT, and history has largely vindicated him on that one. It's the easy answer. If Eakins isn't the problem and we get rid of him just for the sake of change, then the result could be destructive.

To me it seems like there is improvement that is worth cultivating a little bit more.

One of the more sensible comments in a while. As you said it's easy to single out coaching or GM or scouts, or lets not forget Lowe. But the real problem seems to be a commitment to effort. Aulie commented that the team needs to start coming to the rink everyday like professionals and approach each game as such. As much as I like the young guns I wonder sometimes if they're just "livin the dream"

It's going to take 2 or 3 players to stand up and start leading this team by example. Doesn't mean they will need to score 40 goals but rather demonstrate an over the top work ethic from practice to every shift on the ice. Done properly that sort of attitude can infect the whole group. question is "Who's going to step up?"

 

[rboomercat90]

One of the more sensible comments in a while. As you said it's easy to single out coaching or GM or scouts, or lets not forget Lowe. But the real problem seems to be a commitment to effort. Aulie commented that the team needs to start coming to the rink everyday like professionals and approach each game as such. As much as I like the young guns I wonder sometimes if they're just "livin the dream"

It's going to take 2 or 3 players to stand up and start leading this team by example. Doesn't mean they will need to score 40 goals but rather demonstrate an over the top work ethic from practice to every shift on the ice. Done properly that sort of attitude can infect the whole group. question is "Who's going to step up?"

What bothers me is that we've seen several players traded here and start doing this for a while and then gradually stop over time. Almost like they give up because it's falling on deaf ears. We've also seen lower impact players come in and do it too. Guys like Hendricks and recently Aullie. That's a great start but without buy in from big names it isn't enough. It really looks to me like the attitude problem resides with some of our core players or the entitled bunch as they've been called. I think what's going to have to be done to shake this team out of this funk is a major trade involving a core piece. Maybe that wakes the rest of them up and shows them that they aren't King **** like they've always assumed they were.

Coaching, management and even ownership is another issue. impossible to predict what's going to happen there. What is certain is that this team isn't ever going to turn the corner and become successful with this roster, exactly as is. I don't have any more illusions about them. Maybe a shake up can get them going in the right direction.

 

[Replacement*]

I agree that there is a problem here, but what I'm saying is that there's no way to know what the source of the problem is. A perceived lack of effort can mean a lot of things, most of which have nothing to do with effort. A team that doesn't function properly will have a lot of wasted effort. There are many reasons that a team doesn't function properly. I'm guess you are singling out coaching, but the last time that the fanbase was this certain that coaching was the problem was with MacT, and history has largely vindicated him on that one. It's the easy answer. If Eakins isn't the problem and we get rid of him just for the sake of change, then the result could be destructive.

To me it seems like there is improvement that is worth cultivating a little bit more.

Nice post, well expressed. My take is the improvements we've seen is through adding enough forwards with more size and that can battle for pucks. Also for once a complete grinder line to wear down opposition. We've also got a lineup where we can roll lines more. Improved D, and despite what boxcars are saying improved goaltending.
Much of the improvement is due to maturation. Most notably with Nuge who is really blooming, and Hall and Yak continuing to get better.

But heres my concern. Eakins was brought here to eliminate some bad habits, establish discipline, and foster more professional work habits and preparation. I don't discern that these have been accomplished. Theres been enough time to distill it.

 

[Replacement*]

One of the more sensible comments in a while. As you said it's easy to single out coaching or GM or scouts, or lets not forget Lowe. But the real problem seems to be a commitment to effort. Aulie commented that the team needs to start coming to the rink everyday like professionals and approach each game as such. As much as I like the young guns I wonder sometimes if they're just "livin the dream"

It's going to take 2 or 3 players to stand up and start leading this team by example. Doesn't mean they will need to score 40 goals but rather demonstrate an over the top work ethic from practice to every shift on the ice. Done properly that sort of attitude can infect the whole group. question is "Who's going to step up?"

This has been a concern for years and where it started for me was the lockout year where I saw the kids indifferent work habits in the AHL. On many nights they were content to play down to the opposition, actually had some trouble with teams that played a good system (even at AHL level) but lit it up and padde pts against weak AHL opponents. Struck me as the type of focus that wasn't suited to playing the best. The success they exhibited at the time was in response to teams that wouldn't play them hard.

Eberle, being the oldest, is 25 this season and still needs more responsible and consistent play. Watch him on the 3rd Senators goal the other night. That's him not moving his feet, not covering, but instead waterskiing behind the play for 75 ft. That's not win/lose compete to me. The thinking seems to be "oh we'll get that one back" instead of working harder to limit GA.

This team, like most teams, will only go as far as its first line or leaders will take it. The young guns need to start exhibiting better all round play leadership. All of these players are veterans now.

 

[Mr Positive]

Nice post, well expressed. My take is the improvements we've seen is through adding enough forwards with more size and that can battle for pucks. Also for once a complete grinder line to wear down opposition. We've also got a lineup where we can roll lines more. Improved D, and despite what boxcars are saying improved goaltending.
Much of the improvement is due to maturation. Most notably with Nuge who is really blooming, and Hall and Yak continuing to get better.

But heres my concern. Eakins was brought here to eliminate some bad habits, establish discipline, and foster more professional work habits and preparation. I don't discern that these have been accomplished. Theres been enough time to distill it.

The missing element here is chemistry. That's something that is affected by coaching but is mostly between players. I would argue that Eakins has a disadvantage in that he has such a massive player turnover here season to season. Not only that, but you get players like Nuge and Yakupov who have almost completely transformed and might as well be new players. It seems reasonable to me that the first quarter of this season was going to be the most disjointed.

However, we are slowly picking up bits of chemistry. Pouliot is finding a spot. Yakupov and Arco are starting to learn each other. The D seems to still be in flux, and imo we still haven't got the right D partner for Schultz, but that's another story. I still have faith that our goalies will settle down eventually.

The progress is slow though. If Eakins were fired tomorrow I would look forward to what the next guy could do, because he is a central figure of the team and it isn't going well.

 

[mactforcoach]

The missing element here is chemistry. That's something that is affected by coaching but is mostly between players. I would argue that Eakins has a disadvantage in that he has such a massive player turnover here season to season. Not only that, but you get players like Nuge and Yakupov who have almost completely transformed and might as well be new players. It seems reasonable to me that the first quarter of this season was going to be the most disjointed.

However, we are slowly picking up bits of chemistry. Pouliot is finding a spot. Yakupov and Arco are starting to learn each other. The D seems to still be in flux, and imo we still haven't got the right D partner for Schultz, but that's another story. I still have faith that our goalies will settle down eventually.

The progress is slow though. If Eakins were fired tomorrow I would look forward to what the next guy could do, because he is a central figure of the team and it isn't going well.

I think they should keep Pouliot on the top line with Eb's and RNH even after Hall comes back. Pouliot seems to be doing ok there and the other 3 need to develop some chemistry with the other players.