Post-Game Talk: Sens 4 Oilers 3

[tinfish]

We even traded a draft pick so we could speak to him early in order to get a deal done before he hit free agency. Probably at the behest of Scott Howson, who's on the managerial staff and was obviously the Blue Jackets GM for a few years. Probably has a lot to do with him. Good thing we have this crack team of a management staff.

Like our management could ever develop a 5th round pick lol.

Last year it was Grebs, Belov. This year it's Nikitin. Same old song. Come into the year with unproven goalies, weak down the middle, weak on D. Let's try it again next year. We'll draft Eichel. Throw him to the wolves. Sign some other teams 6/7 defencemen. Try two new back up goalies. It's gotta work one of these days, right?

 

[knockoutpanda]

I will never understand why they did not traget Stralman way before Nikitin. The fancy stat guys would have told them to go that way.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Like our management could ever develop a 5th round pick lol.

Last year it was Grebs, Belov. This year it's Nikitin. Same old song. Come into there year with unproven goalies, weak down the middle, weak on D. Let's try it again next year. We'll draft Eichel. Throw him to the wolves. Sign some other teams 6/7 defencemen. Try two new back up goalies. It's gotta work one of these days, right?

What's that definition for 'trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results,' again?

Oh yeah, insanity!

We're basically stuck in this loop of insanity. Just feels more and more hopeless every year. This management needs to be flushed and just start anew, IMO.

 

[tinfish]

I will never understand why they did not traget Stralman way before Nikitin. The fancy stat guys would have told them to go that way.

Like KP mentioned. My guess would be Scott Howson. Another fine member of our management staff.

 

[tinfish]

What's the definition for trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, again?

Oh yeah, insanity!

We're basically stuck in this loop of insanity. Just feels more and more hopeless every year. This management needs to be flushed and just start anew, IMO.

That's the thing. I don't even want this management group to make a trade because the will just **** it up. We'll trade Yak for Larsson or some bs. Flush everyone out. Bring in some smart people with a fresh perspective (I have no idea who this is.) Let them evaluate the team, and bring in a hardworking system that our neighbours to the south are playing. If we played with their work ethic we'd be in a playoff spot. We have twice the talent they do. It's downright embarrassing.

 

[knockoutpanda]

Like KP mentioned. My guess would be Scott Howson. Another fine member of our management staff.

Stralman would have played for Howson from 2009-2011. Only reason I can actually think of he did not want to come here.

 

[tinfish]

Stralman would have played for Howson from 2009-2011. Only reason I can actually think of he did not want to come here.

I forgot he was with Columbus. To be honest though the list of FA defencemen this year wasn't great. I'm glad we got Fayne. I think he has mostly come as advertised.

 

[Soundwave]

Stralman would have played for Howson from 2009-2011. Only reason I can actually think of he did not want to come here.

Maybe it was Nikitin's shot from the point that they were looking at? I have no idea if Stralman has a bomb from the point or not.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Stralman would have played for Howson from 2009-2011. Only reason I can actually think of he did not want to come here.

I think it's also become obvious that this management group is terrible at evaluating talent. Not to mention making some incredibly bone-headed decisions that I think any management group from other teams would laugh at. Bring back Grebeshkov (AKA Garbagekov) last season was one of them. Talent evaluation is clearly not up to par.

 

[KarmaPolice]

That's the thing. I don't even want this management group to make a trade because the will just **** it up. We'll trade Yak for Larsson or some bs. Flush everyone out. Bring in some smart people with a fresh perspective (I have no idea who this is.) Let them evaluate the team, and bring in a hardworking system that our neighbours to the south are playing. If we played with their work ethic we'd be in a playoff spot. We have twice the talent they do. It's downright embarrassing.

Yeah, it's scares me, too. Yak for Larsson would be so brutal. We already have 2 better defensemen in the PB that we refuse to play for a reason that no rational person understands. I will say this: if they trade Klefbom for magic beans, which ever team gets Klefbom will be my new team. I'm so sick of this crap. That will be my breaking point, and I will greatly enjoy and watch Klefbom be PROPERLY developed into the #2 Dman I know he will become. I kind of hope for him it does happen. Great kid, great attitude, great player. He should be playing, and I honestly feel so ****ing bad for him. Breaks my heart to see Nikitin spotting a goal or two every single damn game and never gets pulled. Klefbom was amazing in his game against Boston. That was honestly one of the best young/rookie Dman performances I've ever seen from an Oiler Dman. He broke up plays efficiently, getting the puck up the ice with nice break-out passes. Great gap control. Incredibly strong, winning board battles. Just exactly what you want from a defensive defenseman who can pass and has good vision. Yet he doesn't play. We have a young #2/3 defenseman in our PB every night and we wonder why we can't improve. Actually two of them, though I think Marincin is more of a #3/4 Dman, which is still what we need: Legit top 4 Dmen, not guys playing top 4 minutes pretending to be top 4 Dmen.

A lot of Calgary's success is stemming from 2 great defensemen: Gio and Brodie. I really feel we have our own Brodie in Klefbom. Klefbom is still only 21, don't forget; Brodie is 24. I believe we should be playing Klefbom to allow him to develop. Are we going to win the Stanley Cup this year? No. That is the reality. So why are we giving Nikitin, a guy who is already 28 and will VERY likely not be around when (or if) this team is ready to make the next steps into the playoffs and make playoff runs? Klefbom will be integral to those runs. Nikitin will be a bad memory. Even Aulie. No playoff team could give Aulie top 4 minutes. Because if they did, they wouldn't be a playoff team. He's not good enough for that role. It's not going to hurt his development by sitting him in the PB or playing in the AHL. He is what he is. He's solid, and long-term he might be a solution for a bottom pairing guy. But again, we need to develop Klefbom and Marincin. But I do think we should keep Aulie, don't get me wrong. I think he could be our Matt Greene. That same guy we gave up on too early and traded to LA and has been important in their Cup runs and victories. I would definitely like him to stay around. But I don't think we should be playing him at the expense of hurting the development of Klefbom or Marincin. Developing those two should be a priority over almost anything else with regards to our defense corps. Is this organization expecting Nurse to come in next season all gang busters and be a #1 Dman, win the Calder and the Norris and lead this team into the playoffs or something? Just what the hell are these guys thinking. Boggles my mind.

Anyway, better end this rant. It's getting late.

 

[tinfish]

I think it's also become obvious that this management group is terrible at evaluating talent. Not to mention making some incredibly bone-headed decisions that I think any management group from other teams would laugh at. Bring back Grebeshkov (AKA Garbagekov) last season was one of them. Management really seems to have a very strong fixation on bringing in players with high draft pedigree. It seems that's almost what they look at most. Take for example Cam Barker. Or Patrick O'Sullivan (2nd rounder, but still relatively high). Pouliot was a very high 1st rounder. Boyd Gordon is a former 1st rounder. Nick Schultz was a 2nd rounder. Ben Eager a 1st rounder. Labarbera a 3rd rounder. David Perron a 1st rounder. Ryan Whitney a 1st rounder. And on and on and on. Maybe this is the case with most teams; I haven't really looked into it. But it sure as hell seems to be something of great interest to our management group--and keep in mind I listed all the fairly high drafted players that were brought in from the outside; they weren't drafted by the Oilers, we signed or traded for them. That is by no means a complete list. I'm sure there are many I've missed (and keep in mind I'm looking at the past 3-4 seasons or so, for the most part).

It's like they somehow think that if we can get a team with enough players of high draft pedigree that everything will work it's self out. I don't know, I'm just speculating and maybe I'm way off. One would have to take an in-depth look at a few other teams and compare to say for that is the case with any strong merit. But it sure looks like this is at least part of their MO. And it sure doesn't seem to be working.

I think the biggest problem is Eakins. I think a good NHL coach has this team at 500, maybe 600. There are warts on this team for sure, but more often than not we just look out coached.

 

[tinfish]

Yeah, it's scares me, too. Yak for Larsson would be so brutal. We already have 2 better defensemen in the PB that we refuse to play for some reason that no one rational knows. I will say this: if they trade Klefbom for magic beans, which ever team gets Klefbom will be my new team. I'm so sick of this crap. That will be my breaking point, and I will greatly enjoy Klefbom be PROPERLY developed into the #2 Dman I know he will become. I kind of hope for him it does happen. Great kid, great attitude, great player. He should be playing, and I honestly feel so ****ing bad for him. Breaks my heart to see Nikitin spotting a goal or two every single damn game and never gets pulled. Klefbom was amazing in his game against Boston. That was honestly one of the best young/rookie Dman performances I've ever seen from an Oiler Dman. He broke up plays efficiently, getting the puck up the ice with nice break-out passes. Great gap control. Incredibly strong, winning board battles. Just exactly what you want from a defensive defenseman who can pass and has good vision. Yet he doesn't play. We have a young #2/3 defenseman in our PB every night and we wonder why we can't improve. Actually two of them, though I think Marincin is more of a #3/4 Dman, which is still what we need: Legit top 4 Dmen, not guys playing top 4 minutes pretending to be top 4 Dmen.

A lot of Calgary's success is stemming from 2 great defensemen: Gio and Brodie. I really feel we have our own Brodie in Klefbom. I believe we should be playing Klefbom to allow him to develop. Are we going to win the Stanley Cup this year? No. That is the reality. So why are we giving Nikitin, a guy who is already 28 and will VERY likely not be around when (or if) this team is ready to make the next steps into the playoffs and make playoff runs? Klefbom will be integral to those runs. Nikitin will be a bad memory. Even Aulie. No playoff could give Aulie top 4 minutes. Because if they did, they wouldn't be a playoff team. He's not good enough for that role. He's not going to hurt sitting in the PB or playing in the AHL. He is what he is. He's solid, and long-term he might be a solution for a bottom pairing guy. But again, we need to develop Klefbom and Marincin. This should be a priority over almost anything else with regards to our defense corps. Is this organization expecting Nurse to come in next season all gang busters and be a #1 Dman, win the Calder and the Norris and lead this team into the playoffs or something? Just what the hell are these guys thinking. Boggles my mind.

Anyway, better end this rant. It's getting late.

I dunno if I see a 2D out of Klefbom. I'd feel safer with a 3/4. He's a big strong kid though. If he can put the rest of it together he could dominate. I don't see a ton of points from him, but I think he could be a good all-around D. Maybe 30-40 points and a strong shutdown game very well could be his peak, and if that were to be the case I wouldn't want to get rid of him.

Also, I don''t think you can play 4 or 5 Dmen under 25. We need some guys to show them the ropes. That's the exact same mistake we've made with our forward core.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think the biggest problem is Eakins. I think a good NHL coach has this team at 500, maybe 600. There are warts on this team for sure, but more often than not we just look out coached.

Yeah, I think so, too. Look at Winnipeg. Look at what they can do with a very average everything: average coach, management and on-ice team. They're doing pretty damn well. Certainly better than us. Yet I think we have the players to have a better record. It's very frustrating.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah, I think so, too. Look at Winnipeg. Look at what they can do with a very average everything: average coach, management and on-ice team. They're doing pretty damn well. Certainly better than us. Yet I think we have the players to have a better record. It's very frustrating.

I'd say Maurice is an above-average to good coach. Not a world beater per se. Eakins probably is Maurice if he had about 5-6 years of NHL experience under his belt.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I dunno if I see a 2D out of Klefbom. I'd feel safer with a 3/4. He's a big strong kid though. If he can put the rest of it together he could dominate. I don't see a ton of points from him, but I think he could be a good all-around D. Maybe 30-40 points and a strong shutdown game very well could be his peak, and if that were to be the case I wouldn't want to get rid of him.

Also, I don''t think you can play 4 or 5 Dmen under 25. We need some guys to show them the ropes. That's the exact same mistake we've made with our forward core.

Well, we have Ference, Fayne, Nikitin and Petry over 25. Aulie is like 5 months past 25 now. So I'm not sure we could do that if we tried. But I think I understand the point you're making.
I'm not sure it would be a good idea to play all of Schultz, Marincin and Klefbom together at the same time, or have them all suited up for the same games. But two put BOTH Marincin and Klefbom in the PB I don't understand at all. We should be playing at least one of them with a guy like Fayne (Fayne is a righty, both Klef and Marin are lefties). I think he's the perfect guy to show them the ropes. Platoon them. Have one guy play 3 games, then the next guy.

This should be a development season. One problem with that: Eakins wants to keep his job and feels the pressure of getting wins. So I can't see much development getting done.

Also, I think Klefbom will surprise you and many others. I realize it's just my opinion. I'm not usually one to pump up prospects. You wont catch me doing it hardly ever--there might be another case or two, but it's very rare. However, I feel incredibly strongly about this kid. He's going to turn some heads when given the chance to let loose and play the game. I really want to get a Klefbom jersey, but I don't feel secure enough that he'll remain an Oiler, so I'm waiting to see what happens. If he starts to see regular ice-time and does as well as I think he will, then I'll get it. If he's continually put in the PB or sent down, then I think it's highly possibly a trade is going to happen, and the Oilers will be making a huge mistake, IMO.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'd say Maurice is an above-average to good coach. Not a world beater per se. Eakins probably is Maurice if he had about 5-6 years of NHL experience under his belt.

Part of being good at anything is experience. So why did we hire a coach with no NHL experience again?

But yeah, that's probably fair. I wasn't trying to disrespect him. He's a good coach. Everything Winnipeg has is better than us, IMO. All of their coaches. Better management. Early to tell about scouting, but I think they've made some terrific picks the past few years (besides Scheifele, whom I feel is vastly over-rated. But maybe I'm wrong; we'll see). I would trade our coaches and management for theirs in a heartbeat. You think their fans would accept the trade? lol

EDIT:

That just made me think of this. Think about this for a second. I believe it was during the press-conference for hiring MacT as GM that Kevin Lowe said that something like 'I think it’s safe to say that half the general manager’s in the National Hockey League would trade their roster for our roster right now.' Maybe true, maybe not. Completely beside the point I'm trying to make. Now onwards:

That's referring to the players. But how about this: how many teams would trade their management (including scouting and all that stuff that are under control of management) and their coaches for those of the Oilers? How many fans of other teams, if you polled them, would want to make the swap? How many NHL club owners, if polled, would make the swap? Think about it for a second. Then you'll really realize just how bad things are, if you hadn't before. Well, at least IMO. Because I can't really think of any. Can you? If you can, please post the team and reasons why you think they would make the managerial and coaching swap.

 

[Gambl0r83*]

I will never understand why they did not traget Stralman way before Nikitin. The fancy stat guys would have told them to go that way.

LoL. MacT has mentioned it a handful of times. Stralman was their #1 priority, but he opted to sign elsewhere. They literally tried everything, but the guy doesn't want to play here

 

[tinfish]

LoL. MacT has mentioned it a handful of times. Stralman was their #1 priority, but he opted to sign elsewhere. They literally tried everything, but the guy doesn't want to play here

The sad thing is that that is totally fair (can i put "that" twice in a row? looks weird.) I wouldn't want to play for this team either.

 

[EnthusiasticYak]

I think it's also become obvious that this management group is terrible at evaluating talent. Not to mention making some incredibly bone-headed decisions that I think any management group from other teams would laugh at. Bring back Grebeshkov (AKA Garbagekov) last season was one of them. Management really seems to have a very strong fixation on bringing in players with high draft pedigree. It seems that's almost what they look at most. Take for example Cam Barker. Or Patrick O'Sullivan (2nd rounder, but still relatively high). Pouliot was a very high 1st rounder. Boyd Gordon is a former 1st rounder. Nick Schultz was a 2nd rounder. Ben Eager a 1st rounder. Labarbera a 3rd rounder. David Perron a 1st rounder. Ryan Whitney a 1st rounder. And on and on and on. Maybe this is the case with most teams; I haven't really looked into it. But it sure as hell seems to be something of great interest to our management group--and keep in mind I listed all the fairly high drafted players that were brought in from the outside; they weren't drafted by the Oilers, we signed or traded for them. That is by no means a complete list. I'm sure there are many I've missed (and keep in mind I'm looking at the past 3-4 seasons or so, for the most part).

It's like they somehow think that if we can get a team with enough players of high draft pedigree that everything will work it's self out. I don't know, I'm just speculating and maybe I'm way off. One would have to take an in-depth look at a few other teams and compare to say for that is the case with any strong merit. But it sure looks like this is at least part of their MO. And it sure doesn't seem to be working.

I agree with much of what you've posted in this thread and the same way that you feel about Klefbom, i feel about Yakupov. I'm at the point where i hope they trade him so i can have a different team to cheer for.

I was going to chime in in regards to the draft pedigree theory because i did some looking recently at a few teams in terms of how they're put together; specifically LA.

Their forward lines look like this:
Gaborik (3rd) Kopitar (11th) Williams (28th)
Pearson (30th) Carter (11th) Toffoli (47th)
King (109th) Richards (24th) Brown (13th)
Clifford (35th) Stoll (36th) Lewis (17th)

So their entire forward group has 3 2nd rounders and a 4th rounder while the rest are from the 1st round.

On defense Doughty and Regehr are first rounders, Greene and Voynov are from the second, McNabb is a third and the rest are late picks. Quick is also a third rounder.

I had the same thoughts you did about their MO re: draft pedigree but my research into the Kings kind of put that to bed.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The sad thing is that that is totally fair (can i put "that" twice in a row? looks weird.) I wouldn't want to play for this team either.

Managerial reasons?
If so, is there another team in the league that you wouldn't want to play for because of those same reasons?

 

[tinfish]

Well, we have Ference, Fayne, Nikitin and Petry over 25. Aulie is like 5 months past 25 now. So I'm not sure we could do that if we tried. But I think I understand the point you're making.
I'm not sure it would be a good idea to play all of Schultz, Marincin and Klefbom together at the same time, or have them all suited up for the same games. But two put BOTH Marincin and Klefbom in the PB I don't understand at all. We should be playing at least one of them with a guy like Fayne (Fayne is a righty, both Klef and Marin are lefties). I think he's the perfect guy to show them the ropes. Platoon them. Have one guy play 3 games, then the next guy.

This should be a development season. One problem with that: Eakins wants to keep his job and feels the pressure of getting wins. So I can't see much development getting done.

Also, I think Klefbom will surprise you and many others. I realize it's just my opinion. I'm not usually one to pump up prospects. You wont catch me doing it hardly ever--there might be another case or two, but it's very rare. However, I feel incredibly strongly about this kid. He's going to turn some heads when given the chance to let loose and play the game. I really want to get a Klefbom jersey, but I don't feel secure enough that he'll remain an Oiler, so I'm waiting to see what happens. If he starts to see regular ice-time and does as well as I think he will, then I'll get it. If he's continually put in the PB or sent down, then I think it's highly possibly a trade is going to happen, and the Oilers will be making a huge mistake, IMO.

I think for whatever reason Petry is done as an Oiler at the end of this year. I don't know if it's him or the oilers, but something is fishy there with the one year deal. We've already established that Nikitin should be a 6th defencemen.

xxx-Fayne
Marincin-Petry
Klefbom-Nikitin

I don't think Aulie is a long term solution, and to be honest that line up looks awful. What are we? 5 years into this rebuild and that's our defence. Brutal!

Edit: I don't even have Ferrence in there. I don't think he's a long term solution either. Sorry el capitano

 

[tinfish]

Managerial reasons?
If so, is there another team in the league that you wouldn't want to play for because of those same reasons?

If I had offers from 2 or 3 other teams I think I could make a better choice in terms of my career. Don't get me wrong. I've lived in Edmonton for 30 years. I think it's a beautiful city, but I don't think I would want get involved with this franchise if other teams were interested.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I agree with much of what you've posted in this thread and the same way that you feel about Klefbom, i feel about Yakupov. I'm at the point where i hope they trade him so i can have a different team to cheer for.

I was going to chime in in regards to the draft pedigree theory because i did some looking recently at a few teams in terms of how they're put together; specifically LA.

Their forward lines look like this:
Gaborik (3rd) Kopitar (11th) Williams (28th)
Pearson (30th) Carter (11th) Toffoli (47th)
King (109th) Richards (24th) Brown (13th)
Clifford (35th) Stoll (36th) Lewis (17th)

So their entire forward group has 3 2nd rounders and a 4th rounder while the rest are from the 1st round.

On defense Doughty and Regehr are first rounders, Greene and Voynov are from the second, McNabb is a third and the rest are late picks. Quick is also a third rounder.

I had the same thoughts you did about their MO re: draft pedigree but my research into the Kings kind of put that to bed.

Wow, that's interesting. I'd like to see if there are more teams like this. But quickly thinking of just one other, off the top of my head: the Chicago Blackhawks. I think they have a ton of high picks up and down their roster as well.

I think it also puts to be the notion that you draft 3rd and 4th liners in later rounds of the draft. I think for the most part that is untrue. Most of the best 3rd and 4rd liners are usually players that were high picks, but just weren't able to live up to their offensive billing, so changed their game to become more defensive. But they're chosen ahead of lower picks because they still have more offensive ability to chip in the odd goal. That's why I think guys like Ewanyk really have no chance. There are some exceptions, like Kyle Brodziak. But he also happened to explode offensively after his draft season, and showed quite a bit of offensive potential. Another guy for us is Greg Chase--I think he might be a steal, IF he can get his crap together. He had a pretty good chance to make team Canada as a bottom 6er, but after all of this drama I can't see it happening. A shame, I really wanted to see him play and (hopefully) win Gold. Platzer is another guy to look out for: he was buried beneath a really deep team, but now he's showing off his skill and putting up some nice point totals. It's possible he might have a future along with Chase in the bigs.

Anyway, thanks for the input. It's probably more widespread than I originally thought. Even now I'm thinking of the Bruins, and there's lots of high picks...umm yeah. Don't think there's much to that idea. Seemed so good at first.

 

[tinfish]

I agree with much of what you've posted in this thread and the same way that you feel about Klefbom, i feel about Yakupov. I'm at the point where i hope they trade him so i can have a different team to cheer for.

I was going to chime in in regards to the draft pedigree theory because i did some looking recently at a few teams in terms of how they're put together; specifically LA.

Their forward lines look like this:
Gaborik (3rd) Kopitar (11th) Williams (28th)
Pearson (30th) Carter (11th) Toffoli (47th)
King (109th) Richards (24th) Brown (13th)
Clifford (35th) Stoll (36th) Lewis (17th)

So their entire forward group has 3 2nd rounders and a 4th rounder while the rest are from the 1st round.

On defense Doughty and Regehr are first rounders, Greene and Voynov are from the second, McNabb is a third and the rest are late picks. Quick is also a third rounder.

I had the same thoughts you did about their MO re: draft pedigree but my research into the Kings kind of put that to bed.

Yakupov is going to be a stud. We absolutely have to be patient with him. Selling him off low would be a bigger mistake than drafting him (shoulda took Murray or Galchenyuk)

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think for whatever reason Petry is done as an Oiler at the end of this year. I don't know if it's him or the oilers, but something is fishy there with the one year deal. We've already established that Nikitin should be a 6th defencemen.

xxx-Fayne
Marincin-Petry
Klefbom-Nikitin

I don't think Aulie is a long term solution, and to be honest that line up looks awful. What are we? 5 years into this rebuild and that's our defence. Brutal!

Edit: I don't even have Ferrence in there. I don't think he's a long term solution either. Sorry el capitano

Yeah, they didn't think the rebuild through very well. When they had 1st overall picks and the clear choice was a forward, as in Halls case, then I would've picked defensemen with every other pick we had. Same for next season. This team didn't focus enough on defense with their scouting and drafting. They did pick a couple good players in Marincin and Klefbom, but they refuse to play them! Go figure.