News Article: Sens 25 top players (25th anniversary edition)

[Rooverick*]

Murray didn't have to coach against Quinn or play the leafs in the playoffs.

Murray would have used the tools at his disposal and won at least a couple of those series.

1) Using Spezza (even as a PP specialist) could easily have changed the result of series where we failed to score.

2) Getting Chara to dummy Roberts would have completely changed the tone of more than one series. Martin had the nuclear deterrent against a team taking liberties and failed to use it.

 

[Beville]

I'm happy with this list...

No Stone? So what, assuming he doesn't turn into a ****, when there's a 50 yr anniversary he'll feature on that.

And point to note, this was a list by FANS.

 

[Inkling]

It's a very solid list. I guess you have to put Lalime in there due to his numbers but I tend to associate him with an underachieving Sens team and might prefer to see Tugnutt on there, but that's probably not realistic. Neil belongs on there for sure.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

It's a very solid list. I guess you have to put Lalime in there due to his numbers but I tend to associate him with an underachieving Sens team and might prefer to see Tugnutt on there, but that's probably not realistic. Neil belongs on there for sure.

Ya the "emotional" vote is for Tugnutt. But you can't argue a 1-2 list of Andy and Lalime.

Glad Neil made it. Warrior. Kelly though, definitely the odd man out on that list.

 

[jbeck5]

Ya the "emotional" vote is for Tugnutt. But you can't argue a 1-2 list of Andy and Lalime.

Glad Neil made it. Warrior. Kelly though, definitely the odd man out on that list.

Really? I don't think either should be there but Kelly at his best was better than Neil at his best. He was arguably the best 3rd line center in the league in his prime. Kelly was also better than Neil at their worst.

Neither should be on it but I don't see how one could think Neil was an amazing hockey player and scoff at Kelly.

 

[Max Power]

This list is brutal.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the list.

So it's not "best players to play for sens" but "longest serving senators"?

Or else we'd see Hasek, straka,demitra,bondra, gonchar etc if it was best players to put on a sens jersey.

If it was best players to play a long time on the sens guys like mceachern and white and stone with top line and 60+ point seasons would make it over Neil.

Neil was never a top 10 player for us in one year, so the fact he's in the top 25 all time is laughable.

Overall terrible list because I can't figure out what they're basing it on

Totally agree, this list makes no sense at all

We had arguably the greatest goalie of all time play for us and lead us to the playoffs, but he's not on the list? So if the list is based on fan favorites what is Heatley or Yashin on the list for. So many other questionable aspects as well

 

[Answer]

If I had to make my team..

Hossa - Yashin - Alfredsson

Havlat - Spezza - Stone

Hoffman - Turris - Vermette

Bonk - Fisher - Neil


Karlsson - Chara (LOL)

Redden - Phillips

Mezaros - Volchenkov

Anderson
Lalime

 

[Germz]

Are we the only team that does this? Do Detroit fans try to push 3rd and 4th liners like maccarty,draper, maltby as top all time redwings over actual top of the roster impact players they've had? (Even if you made it top 50 redwings to adjust for years played)

http://windsorstar.com/sports/hockey/bob-duff-invites-debate-over-50-greatest-red-wings

Darren McCarty, another fan favourite from Leamington, comes in at 48th.

“He’s also a guy who was probably underrated as a player,†Duff said. “He scored some significant goals in Red Wings history.â€

 

[danielpalfredsson]

There's a big difference between best NHL players who have at one point worn a Senators jersey and best careers with the Senators.

An example, Hasek is probably the best player ever to wear a Senators jersey, but his career with the Senators was a footnote at best. He had an amazing half regular season and then never played for the Sens again because he was injured. So if players are being judged by what they've actually done while in a Senators uniform, Lalime, Anderson, Emery, and probably a few others have accomplished more than Hasek.

If it is based on best players for their entire NHL career, leaving Hasek off makes no sense. If it is purely based on their career as Senators, leaving off Hoffman and Stone with players like Vermette and Kelly on is laughable. Huge bias to the "good old days" that the fans need to get over. Respect the past, but ultimately fans need to live in the present, not the past.

 

[Zorf]

Maybe the list is money earned and that's why Neil and Phillips are so high up. Because we kept giving them multi million contracts after their prime so they could make this list.

I know people will probably jump on me for the Phillips comment because he's been with us for long...But that being said, he's never been a top defenseman for us.

Back in the day we'd swap him for a forward. And then after that we still gave more ice time to guys like duchesne, kravchuk, redden, York... Even in Phillip's prime he was a #3 or #4 behind Chara, redden, and maybe volchenkov depending on your preference. And then guys like gonchar too.

He's never been one of our better defenseman yet is on the list when guys who were ahead of him in the depth chart for their total time here spanning over several seasons are nowhere to be found for the list.

I'd rather have Crosby for 5 years than Darren maccarty for 20. Yet this list would put maccarty ahead because of time played.

Phillips was one of the top shutdown d-men in the league for a while. He would routinely ruin the night of superstars by not giving them an inch to work with.

He was never flashy but to say he's not top 25 is bonkers.

And he was definitely the top pairing with Volchenkov for a couple years.

 

[Zorf]

The only real change I would make to the list is Kelly out and McEachern in.

The rest are all fine. Maybe Vermette, but hard to find a replacement for him.

 

[jbeck5]

Phillips was one of the top shutdown d-men in the league for a while. He would routinely ruin the night of superstars by not giving them an inch to work with.

He was never flashy but to say he's not top 25 is bonkers.

And he was definitely the top pairing with Volchenkov for a couple years.

When listening to those star players they would often mention volchenkov as the harder to play against, not Phillips.

And Phillips was never ahead of redden or Chara or karlsson or gonchar and never played with them so he was never top pair. (He did play with Chara on the second pair in Chara's first year)

He's been a 3rd pair for us for a decade with a handful of his prime years on the second pairing as a shutdown. That's not a top 6 D all time for the sens.

 

[jbeck5]

The only real change I would make to the list is Kelly out and McEachern in.

The rest are all fine. Maybe Vermette, but hard to find a replacement for him.

Smolinski or white produced more than vermette here too.

 

[Germz]

What jbeck5 is saying about Phillips makes no sense if you look at ice-time.

Phillips ATOI (regular season)

2000-01: 21:38 (3rd among Sens D)
2001-02: 19:30 (4th)
2002-03: 20:13 (4th)
2003-04: 20:50 (3rd)
2005-06: 20:52 (3rd)
2006-07: 22:21 (2nd)
2007-08: 22:38 (1st)
2008-09: 21:52 (2nd)
2009-10: 22:20 (2nd)
2010-11: 21:31 (3rd)
2011-12: 19:06 (4th)
2012-13: 21:02 (4th*)
2013-14: 19:13 (4th)
2014-15: 20:53 (3rd for only 36 games)

*Recall that Karlsson missed 31 out of 48 games in 2012-13, so Phillips was effectively our #3 D for the majority of that season. He played all 48 games.

Bottom line: after 2000, Phillips never fell below 4th in defensive TOI (EDIT). He got top-pairing minutes for 4 season in his prime. Phillips was also remarkably durable. He missed only 20 regular season games between 2002 and 2013. He hit the 80-game mark 7 times (Volchenkov never played an 80 game season). So he played a lot of minutes.

The man was not perfect, but he was a rock on our defense for a long time and his accomplishments should not be forgotten.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Really? "ALL-TIME BEST"? I'm not misunderstanding those words. Best to ever play with the sens?

Heatley-Spezza-alfredsson
Bondra-Yashin-Kovalev
Hossa-demitra-Stone
Hoffman-straka-havlat

Just missed the cut: turris, bonk, stillman, McEachern, Smolinski, Prospal, white, foligno, vermette, fisher, Juneau, arvedson, schaefer, kelly, michalek, macarthur

Karlsson-chara
redden-gonchar
Duschesne-Phaneuf

Just missed the cut: Phillips, volchenkov, Kuba, Methot, mciver, york, karvchuk

Hasek
Barrasso

Just missed the cut: Tuggnutt, rhodes, lalime, anderson

That would be my opinion of the "best all time roster collected of guys who played for the sens"

Then if you care about time with the sens, you can take out hasek and barrasso and replace them with anderson and lalime.
Take out no one on D because they all played the better part of multiple seasons. Maybe phaneuf for phillips but not for long once phaneuf plays more as hes the higher ranking defenseman all time)
Take out bondra, demitra, straka and replace them with 3 of turris,bonk, smolinski, stillman, prospal or mceachern.

Can't really think of anyone missing from your list, pure skill wise I can't argue with the selections here.

 

[jbeck5]

What jbeck5 is saying about Phillips makes no sense if you look at ice-time.

Phillips ATOI (regular season)

2000-01: 21:38 (3rd among Sens D)
2001-02: 19:30 (4th)
2002-03: 20:13 (4th)
2003-04: 20:50 (3rd)
2005-06: 20:52 (3rd)
2006-07: 22:21 (2nd)
2007-08: 22:38 (1st)
2008-09: 21:52 (2nd)
2009-10: 22:20 (2nd)
2010-11: 21:31 (3rd)
2011-12: 19:06 (4th)
2012-13: 21:02 (4th*)
2013-14: 19:13 (4th)
2014-15: 20:53 (3rd for only 36 games)

*Recall that Karlsson missed 31 out of 48 games in 2012-13, so Phillips was effectively our #3 D for the majority of that season. He played all 48 games.

Bottom line: after 2000, Phillips never fell below 4th in defensive TOI (EDIT). He got top-pairing minutes for 4 season in his prime. Phillips was also remarkably durable. He missed only 20 regular season games between 2002 and 2013. He hit the 80-game mark 7 times (Volchenkov never played an 80 game season). So he played a lot of minutes.

The man was not perfect, but he was a rock on our defense for a long time and his accomplishments should not be forgotten.

The most common number is 4th in ice time. I just don't see how that translates to "greatest senators". 4th in D ice time is like a forward who's 6th in ice time...I also don't think that belongs either.

Longevity needs to take a backseat to quality when discussing "greatest" IMO.

Wayne Gretzky is called the great one not because he played 25 seasons or had ironman streaks...It's because he produced the most.

Productivity should be the top factor. That's not just total production, but output relative to input. Points over games played for example.

 

[Germz]

My point was that you were exaggerating in calling him a career 3rd-pairing D who got 2nd-pairing minutes for maybe 5 years. I see 9.5 seasons of being a top 3 D (including 4 season as a top-pairing guy), and only 4.5 seasons of being the 4th D. And when you had guys on the team like Volchenkov and Salo who were constantly ravaged by injuries (even Redden towards the end of his time with Ottawa), durability itself took on value.

As for your larger point about productivity and greatness, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see no need to debate that any further. For the record I wouldn't retire his number. But if I were doing mny own personal all-time ranking of Sens D, as of right now I'd have Phillips 4th, with Volchenkov 5th, and some collection of Duchesne, Methot, York, Kravchuk, Kuba, and Gonchar in a battle for 6th.

 

[Big Papi]

Essential this is meant to be the fans all time roster.

You are meant to include 'star' players (i.e. Spezza) with 'character' types (i.e. Neil).

Given their time with the team, Phillips and Neil are a must. They have meant more to the team then Gonchar or Michalek.

With that said, I'd have McEachern, Cunneyworth (in the vain of Steve Duchesne) & Michalek (in that order) ahead of Vermette.

 

[Answer]

Majority of the people see choosing Redden over Chara as the biggest blunder done by this organization. I would say trading Hossa for Heatley was the biggest mistake ever!

 

[Suiteness]

That Heatley stat line in Ottawa is insane. 362 points in 317 games!

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

man i ****ing loved heatley

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Really? I don't think either should be there but Kelly at his best was better than Neil at his best. He was arguably the best 3rd line center in the league in his prime. Kelly was also better than Neil at their worst.

Neither should be on it but I don't see how one could think Neil was an amazing hockey player and scoff at Kelly.

I'm sorry but you can't tell me that Chris Kelly should be on a Top 25 Sens list more than Neil.

Great, Kelly was a phenomenal 3rd liner during his time here. But Neil played his role here almost perfectly for over 1000 games. Kelly can be "the better hockey player", but they brought vastly different skill sets to the team, and Neil did it for one hell of a lot longer (6 vs 14, not including this year), and probably bled about 10 litres of blood for the team. I'd be absolutely shocked if you put this to a poll and Kelly came out on top, or if it was even close.

 

[jbeck5]

I'm sorry but you can't tell me that Chris Kelly should be on a Top 25 Sens list more than Neil.

Great, Kelly was a phenomenal 3rd liner during his time here. But Neil played his role here almost perfectly for over 1000 games. Kelly can be "the better hockey player", but they brought vastly different skill sets to the team, and Neil did it for one hell of a lot longer (6 vs 14, not including this year), and probably bled about 10 litres of blood for the team. I'd be absolutely shocked if you put this to a poll and Kelly came out on top, or if it was even close.

Again, I'm talking about who were the best hockey players when they were here. Not who fought the most or played the most games. Neil has been a 4th line RWer with spot duty on the third line in his prime. That doesn't belong in any "greatest" category. Neither does Kelly tbh. We have plenty of top 6 forwards who produced a lot for years that should be ahead.

 

[trentmccleary]

The most common number is 4th in ice time. I just don't see how that translates to "greatest senators". 4th in D ice time is like a forward who's 6th in ice time...I also don't think that belongs either.

Longevity needs to take a backseat to quality when discussing "greatest" IMO.

Wayne Gretzky is called the great one not because he played 25 seasons or had ironman streaks...It's because he produced the most.

Productivity should be the top factor. That's not just total production, but output relative to input. Points over games played for example.

He was basically the #3 defenseman for 13 1/2 years of a team that has only existed for 23 1/2 seasons. The players who commonly played above him were Redden, Karlsson and Chara who take up 20 or more top-2 seasons combined. Phillips is a clear 4th on defense for this top-25 list.

 

[aragorn]

Heatley - Spezza - Stone
Hossa - Yashin - Alfredsson
McEachern - Fisher - Havlat
McGratton - Smith - Neil/Michalek

Redden - Karlsson
Phaneuf - Chara
Phillips - Volchenkov/Duschene

Hasek - Barrasso/Anderson