TSN: Senators lose 1st round pick in '24, '25 or '26 as penalty for Dadonov fiasco

[DrEasy]

The NHL punishes the Sens for not disclosing the a no-trade list, but the NHL didn't disclose two investigations on the Sens. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
Seems like Andlauer has a bit of a legal case against the league.

Sens fired Pierre, now NHL needs to fire Bettmen.

...and give the Sens a 1st round pick to compensate for their non-disclosure.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

They very clearly had good reason to punish the team. They should release the 74 page report.

Andlauer never seemed to dispute the validity of the punishment. The argument was that punishing a new ownership group for something that did not take place under their watch doesn't make sense, and the league never disclosed the possibility that he would face such a steep punishment during the purchase of the team.

Realistically, unless they found that Melnyk played a part in the great Dadonov heist, Dorion should have been punished directly by the league. You can argue about how much punishment losing his job is when it was already telegraphed to happen, but some sort of suspension from the league or fine would likely be a greater deterrent to future GMs than the loss of a draft pick that they won't benefit from anyways.

 

[boxbox]

As reported, and to paraphrase Andlauer... Vegas and Anaheim wanted their pound of flesh and pushed the league to do this. Vegas because they apparently now regret the rightful reputation they have for treating their players like bookkeeping assets instead of people, and Anaheim? Probably because they were pissed the trade didn't happen in the first place.

Greater than zero chance part of the league coming down on this is because of how f***ing embarrassing it is that this happened in the first place. Afaik, conditions surrounding the trade are vetted through the leagues Mtl central registry office. All parties and a league representative convene a call to confirm the trade, etc...

Yes, it is bad for the game that a GM even tried this in the first place.

It's worse for the league because the GM got away with it.

thanks for recap...appreciated
I heard some chit chat on TV today about how the Devils were slapped with a similar punishment for the whole Kovalchuk cap fiasco in 2010 and 4 years later when it was time to collect the NHL ended up reducing the punishment ....

So yeah in 3 years I don't see how or why anyone would still care about this and see a similar scenario playing out.

Whats not clear to me is how this actually went down...like was PD asked about there being any clauses in the players contract during the negotiation phase and intentionally lied answering ? Or was it an unintentional mistake on his part and just a case of" forgetting to do it

Don't teams go over the players contracts as part of the trade process ??? "no movement/trade clauses" is like the first thing that comes to mind when trades are being discussed.

 

[Sensinitis]

NHL : "we want to keep all the Canadian teams, they're essential for this league. We want to grow all Canadian markets and think they have great potential. "

Also the NHL : "let's hand the freshly purchased Canadian team, which also happens to be the capital of Canada and finally has an optimistic outlook for the first team in 15+, every maximum fine and penalty possible so they learn their lesson..."


Makes 0 sense..

 

[DrEasy]

They very clearly had good reason to punish the team. They should release the 74 page report.

Andlauer never seemed to dispute the validity of the punishment. The argument was that punishing a new ownership group for something that did not take place under their watch doesn't make sense, and the league never disclosed the possibility that he would face such a steep punishment during the purchase of the team.

Realistically, unless they found that Melnyk played a part in the great Dadonov heist, Dorion should have been punished directly by the league. You can argue about how much punishment losing his job is when it was already telegraphed to happen, but some sort of suspension from the league or fine would likely be a greater deterrent to future GMs than the loss of a draft pick that they won't benefit from anyways.

But Dorion isn't an NHL employee: he wasn't hired by them nor paid by them nor reporting to them; he's an employee of a particular NHL franchise. The NHL franchises are the ones reporting to the leagues, so when an employee screws up and it hurts the NHL, the NHL is going to punish the franchise; then it's up to the franchise to decide what to do with the employee responsible for the screw-up.

At least that's how I understand it.

 

[Samboni]

Damn I wonder if Andlauer can sue the NHL for withholding information in regards to the significance of the investigation? Seems like fraud. Maybe a couple mil and first rounders?

Eugene wouldn’t take this lying down.

 

[Paper]

Damn it, I bet my friend Shane that the Senators wouldn't get such a big punishment.

 

[h2]

Again, I agree there should be a punishment, but I think it should have been more individual based (On Dorion), and not the franchise especially with a new group running the team. Like, ban Dorion from ever being in a GM role again, pending commissioner approval or something,

 

[GCK]

Andlauer would have an even better argument had he fired Dorion right away. All the executives involved would have been gone.

 

[Bileur]

Andlauer would have an even better argument had he fired Dorion right away. All the executives involved would have been gone.

Would have been easier to do that if the NHL had been upfront about the investigation and potential consequences in the sale process.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Man if you listen to the most recent Coming in Hot Simmer is straight up saying that Pierre knew the NTC was legit and intentionally lied to Vegas about it.

Edit: and suggesting that McTavish left the org once he learned what happened cause he didn't want anything to do with it.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Man if you listen to the most recent Coming in Hot Simmer is straight up saying that Pierre knew the NTC was legit and intentionally lied to Vegas about it.

Edit: and suggesting that McTavish left the org once he learned what happened cause he didn't want anything to do with it.

On the one hand, Simmer's done a lot to tank his reputation as a reliable source. On the other hand, it sure would explain why the punishment was so harsh and why Andlauer was so adamant about the team being solely responsible. Malice vs. incompetence.

 

[GCK]

Typical of the Dorion, we had to attach a pick to get rid of him.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Seems crazy harsh to do this after 2 years. Fine dorion and forfeit a mid round pick sure but a first is crazy imo

nah... losing a mid round pick that only has a .0003% chance of hitting wouldn't be much of a deterrent, would it? A 1st round pick is perfectly appropriate. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Mingus Dew]

If Dorion intentionally lied to Vegas in order to push the trade through then quite frankly the punishment is appropriate.

 

[Larionov]

Doesn't this rise to the level of firing with cause and contract termination? Not sure what leg Dorion would have to stand on, legally, if his actions directly harmed the employer.

They could easily rack up a huge legal bill trying to get out of paying Dorion with no guarantee of success. Andlauer and his team would spend hundreds of hours preparing for a trial that would be a huge distraction and media circus. In almost every one of these kinds of cases, the easiest and cleanest thing to do is just pay the former employee out and move on...

 

[BondraTime]

If Dorion intentionally lied to Vegas in order to push the trade through then quite frankly the punishment is appropriate.

Punishment is pretty appropriate regardless.

Vegas can argue that they wasted their precious time dealing with Anaheim, and because of that they were f***ed due to the cap and not being able to move Dadonov, that likely cost them a spot in the playoffs and xxx amount of revenue.

There is a gigantic butterfly effect of costs that can be rightfully argued, if it were to go to a trial I'm sure you of all people would understand the lability Ottawa would likely be under.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I wonder if the previous owners were informed, I mean, surely had they taken away a 1st back in Mar 2022, Dorion would have been fired back then and potentially prevented the DBC trade...

It’s possible the previous owners could have been informed of the investigation…. And maybe even the range of possible penalties they could expect…. So there probably would have been a NDA imposed if that happened….. So how would the firing of PD be explained 14 or 16 months ago?

 

[Mingus Dew]

Punishment is pretty appropriate regardless.

Vegas can argue that they wasted their precious time dealing with Anaheim, and because of that they were f***ed due to the cap and not being able to move Dadonov, that likely cost them a spot in the playoffs and xxx amount of revenue.

There is a gigantic butterfly effect of costs that can be rightfully argued, if it were to go to a trial I'm sure you of all people would understand the lability Ottawa would be under.

Yes you're not wrong.

I'm just saying there is a big difference between effectively a clerical era and an intentional attempt to mislead another organization to push a deal through.

 

[Micklebot]

It’s possible the previous owners could have been informed of the investigation…. And maybe even the range of possible penalties they could expect…. So there probably would have been a NDA imposed if that happened….. So how would the firing of PD be explained 14 or 16 months ago?

It seems the previous owners did know, Andlauer mentioned it came up as part of his due diligence in the presser, and they told him is was a non-issue or something to that effect, he said a 1st rounder seemed like a pretty big deal to him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Again, I agree there should be a punishment, but I think it should have been more individual based (On Dorion), and not the franchise especially with a new group running the team. Like, ban Dorion from ever being in a GM role again, pending commissioner approval or something,

But, as GM, he represents the franchise.
What would the NHL, if PD had parted ways last year, and was working in private industry? Would the NHL inform his new employer and ask they demote him, or fine him?

sadly the franchise has to held accountable, And I agree the punishment is too severe, and MA should appeal immediately on both the Pinto and the LNM clause isssues.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

It seems the previous owners did know, Andlauer mentioned it came up as part of his due diligence in the presser, and they told him is was a non-issue or something to that effect, he said a 1st rounder seemed like a pretty big deal to him.

If that is the case, then MA should appeal asap, as clearly, if the details and possible penalties where fully disclosed the value of the franchise would have been impacted… and for this falls much more on the NHL, than the previous ownership, as they would have been bound by the NDA.


From day one, when the expansion draft rules only allowed the scraps of the existing NHL teams to be exposed, the NHL has not been a friend to this franchise.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

It seems the previous owners did know, Andlauer mentioned it came up as part of his due diligence in the presser, and they told him is was a non-issue or something to that effect, he said a 1st rounder seemed like a pretty big deal to him.

It's not farfetched to believe that the "board" – who did not care about the on-ice product or day-to-day goings on and were purely trying to maximize the sale price – were made aware of the investigation and asked Pierre Dorion if there was anything to it.

Dorion, being the liar he is, told them there was nothing to it, and he wasn't concerned.

The board then communicated that to Andlauer during due diligence. "There is an investigation, but it's not of concern."

It all comes down to Dorion.

 

[h2]

But, as GM, he represents the franchise.
What would the NHL, if PD had parted ways last year, and was working in private industry? Would the NHL inform his new employer and ask they demote him, or fine him?

sadly the franchise has to held accountable, And I agree the punishment is too severe, and MA should appeal immediately on both the Pinto and the LNM clause isssues.

No need for the what if scenario in this case.

He still worked for us, the punishment SHOULD have been focused on the individual.

 

[Micklebot]

It's not farfetched to believe that the "board" – who did not care about the on-ice product or day-to-day goings on and were purely trying to maximize the sale price – were made aware of the investigation and asked Pierre Dorion if there was anything to it.

Dorion, being the liar he is, told them there was nothing to it, and he wasn't concerned.

The board then communicated that to Andlauer during due diligence. "There is an investigation, but it's not of concern."

It all comes down to Dorion.

That would be pretty dumb of the board...

Hey, one of our guys is being investigated by the league for gross negligence, should we probe the league to see how serious this is, or just ask the guy being investigated what's up?

Like asking OJ why Nicole isn't around...