Sportsnet: Senators begin to shed basement brand with transformative off-season

[NyQuil]

I think Batherson is going to be a legitimate NHLer, I just don't see him being a top end, first line player. 50-60 point ceiling, in my opinion.

Interesting. I'm fairly confident he will be (and I'm a notorious pessimist).

I expected more from him last season, but I think a lot of people did.

Then again, I think 50-60 points isn't bad for a top line winger. Back in the last full season 50 points represents the top 22 LW and the top 26 RW.

We shall see!

I agree with you that I don't see him as a franchise winger (e.g. 80-90 points), but who knows?

 

[jhutter]

Interesting. I'm fairly confident he will be (and I'm a notorious pessimist).

I expected more from him last season, but I think a lot of people did.

Then again, I think 50-60 points isn't bad for a top line winger. Back in the last full season 50 points represents the top 22 LW and the top 26 RW.

We shall see!

I agree with you that I don't see him as a franchise winger.

I would like to add that "top first line winger" is relative. If this team wants to contend, as they claim they do, a 50 point player cannot be your 1RW when you're in the contending phase. If for the next two seasons he's putting up 50-60 points while the team continues the rebuild, I'll be ecstatic. If he can put up decent numbers in the next two seasons while the team is likely to perform poorly, those numbers will only increase as the team improves.

 

[Taluss]

And to think there are some people arguing that Dorion should have done whatever he needed to retain Karlsson, Methot, Phaneuf, Borowiecki, Pageau, Stone and others.

I would argue that some of these players were big fan favourites, but there always comes a time when, for whatever reasons, fan favourites move on to another organization or retire... and as they age, their value declines, and tough decisions are sometimes necessary..... just look at what is happening in Chicago.... they're saddled with at least four huge unmovable contracts, that after they were signed, did not deliver a Stanley Cup, and are rebuilding with these aging veterans for about the next 3 seasons.

Dorion saw the need to rebuild, and had to decide who to retain and move forward with, and if he did not see them, or if they did not want to be part of a total rebuild... he made the tough decisions knowing the fallout from fans would be directed at him.

Only one I really disagree with is Stone. Id do that trade back any day. We needed a guy like him not just on ice but especially in the locker-room. Imagine having him there along with our prospects rn. Would be great.

 

[NyQuil]

I would like to add that "top first line winger" is relative. If this team wants to contend, as they claim they do, a 50 point player cannot be your 1RW when you're in the contending phase. If for the next two seasons he's putting up 50-60 points while the team continues the rebuild, I'll be ecstatic. If he can put up decent numbers in the next two seasons while the team is likely to perform poorly, those numbers will only increase as the team improves.

I really wonder about that.

It's certainly a bit of cherry picking, but looking at the Cup-winning Blues regular season line-up, it's remarkable how low-scoring it is:

2018-19 St. Louis Blues Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Only three 20+ goal scorers, and three 50+ point scorers. Now obviously they have RoR and Tank, and a guy like Schwartz busted out to his normal production in the playoffs, but it is interesting.

I'm starting to believe that the long-term success of this team will rely on balancing the offensive load as opposed to leading the league in expensive categories.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm not that high on Wolanin.

I am still fairly high on Batherson. Personally I think he will perform better with better players. Just the nature of his skill set.

Some guys need other skilled and creative guys around them to thrive.

Other guys can either do it all by themselves (Hossa with the Senators) or rely simply on work ethic for their offence (95% of our offence last season).

Wolanin is exactly that kind of guy. Wolanin is very active and creates plays all over the ice. More guys to finish his plays more points. Good skater, good shot, great offensive flair.

 

[jhutter]

I really wonder about that.

It's certainly a bit of cherry picking, but looking at the Cup-winning Blues regular season line-up, it's remarkable how low-scoring it is:

2018-19 St. Louis Blues Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Only three 20+ goal scorers, and three 50+ point scorers. Now obviously they have RoR and Tank, and a guy like Schwartz busted out to his normal production in the playoffs, but it is interesting.

I'm starting to believe that the long-term success of this team will rely on balancing the offensive load as opposed to leading the league in expensive categories.

That's a valid point, and one to definitely consider. I just haven't managed to get into my mind that a Cup contender can have a 50pt winger on their top line. Maybe it's time I do!

 

[NyQuil]

Wolanin is exactly that kind of guy. Wolanin is very active and creates plays all over the ice. More guys to finish his plays more points.

Well, I'll trot out my oft-cited 14.2% (31st in the league) PP prowess yet again.

Improving that number while hopefully retaining our GA to a respectable level should result in overall point gains next year.

 

[JD1]

Am I the only one that isn't buying into the Batherson/Wolanin future superstars hype?

Not sure many see them as superstars

I see Batherson as a solid top 6 producer and a good PP player

I really don't know what to expect with Wolanin

 

[JD1]

Well, I'll trot out my oft-cited 14.2% (31st in the league) PP prowess yet again.

Improving that number while hopefully retaining our GA to a respectable level should result in overall point gains next year.

What's an average number of PPs?? 3 a game? That's 250 or so on a season and the diff between 14 and 20% is 15 goals. That adds up. It probably pushes you into a few OT games with a chance at 2 points and it probably pushes you out of a few OT games that you lose and into the win column. With how many 1 goal games we played last season it's probably not a stretch to think 15 goals might have resulted in an extra 7 or 8 points

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

The score is rarely worthy of it's own thread... kinda fits in here

Review of the Atlantic: Ottawa takes the top grade

NHL offseason grades: Atlantic Division

 

[BatherSeason]

The score is rarely worthy of it's own thread... kinda fits in here

Review of the Atlantic: Ottawa takes the top grade

NHL offseason grades: Atlantic Division

Not sure if you read the article but did not earn "the top grade". It lists Detroit, Buffalo, Toronto and Montreal as having better off seasons than the Sens or am I reading it wrong?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not sure if you read the article but did not earn "the top grade". It lists Detroit, Buffalo, Toronto and Montreal as having better off seasons than the Sens or am I reading it wrong?

Question of the week.
Is this grading done by real pro/paid NHL scouts or GMs or just some random sports writer?

Feel free to reuse it substituting "grading" with "ranking" and "random sports writer" with "internet hockey blogger/analyst" what ever fits the case.

 

[BatherSeason]

Question of the week.
Is this grading done by real pro/paid NHL scouts or GMs or just some random sports writer?

Feel free to reuse it substituting "grading" with "ranking" and "random sports writer" with "internet hockey blogger/analyst" what ever fits the case.

This is definitely a "nothing to see here" article posted by a random sports writer.

I did not post the original article. I was just correcting the original poster who stated "Ottawa takes the top spot", when if you read the article, they clearly did not.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Question of the week.
Is this grading done by real pro/paid NHL scouts or GMs or just some random sports writer?

Feel free to reuse it substituting "grading" with "ranking" and "random sports writer" with "internet hockey blogger/analyst" what ever fits the case.

I am sure the writer has at least 3k twitter followers and was able to get a few poorly written articles published online for the athletic before. Isn't that worthy of a William Hill award?

 

[Xspyrit]

The grades for each team are awkwardly disposed... They are at the end of the explanation and not just before the name of the team like it seems at first glance

Montreal Canadiens A
Buffalo Sabres A-
Toronto Maple Leafs B+
Detroit Red Wings B+
Ottawa Senators B
Tampa Bay Lightning C
Florida Panthers C-
Boston Bruins D+


I actually got caught as well initially and only realized it when I saw the B+ grade at the bottom

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Actually, I think BatherSeason is right because the grades for each team are awkwardly disposed... They are at the end of the explanation and not just before the name of the team like you will initially think

Boston Bruins D+
Buffalo Sabres A-
Detroit Red Wings B+
Florida Panthers C-
Montreal Canadiens A
Ottawa Senators B
Tampa Bay Lightning C
Toronto Maple Leafs B+

I actually got caught as well initially and only realize it when I saw the B+ grade at the bottom

True. It definitely is a puff pastry of an article. I can always count on @BatherSeason to fact check my posts.

 

[Samsquanch]

Can't believe we traded Stone. That one hurts the most. I had him penciled in as our next captain. Vegas is now reaping the benefits from a gem we found in the 6th round of the draft and then developed into a top 6 player.

Stone wasnt happy with another rebuild. Why are we pretending like there was a choice for Dorion here?

He wanted to win now. Vegas wanted to spend big and win now. The Sens did not - that would have meant committing to Karlsson and Duchene ect.

So anyways, VGK + Stone was a perfect match for them both. Let's just be happy for him, and happy the rebuild worked out nicely for us.

 

[JungleBeat]

New Jersey and New York look to be taking bigger steps and will be a challenge in the east.

 

[Que]

We’re going from tire fire - to fire this season.

Book it.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

We’re going from tire fire - to fire this season.

Book it.

If there is a season.

Book it.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

We’re going from tire fire - to fire this season.

Book it.

The more I look at this roster, the more I agree. If we get even a few small breakout seasons from our lesser knowns, we'll be in good shape.

 

[Cosmix]

I really wonder about that.

It's certainly a bit of cherry picking, but looking at the Cup-winning Blues regular season line-up, it's remarkable how low-scoring it is:

2018-19 St. Louis Blues Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Only three 20+ goal scorers, and three 50+ point scorers. Now obviously they have RoR and Tank, and a guy like Schwartz busted out to his normal production in the playoffs, but it is interesting.

I'm starting to believe that the long-term success of this team will rely on balancing the offensive load as opposed to leading the league in expensive categories.

A small Canadian market with lower than average revenues cannot compete with the large market teams for high performance UFAs (it’s own or other teams’); so I think your belief may be the only strategy that is affordable but it has a low chance to succeed. A team of young guns and lower cost vets.

 

[Cosmix]

Stone wasnt happy with another rebuild. Why are we pretending like there was a choice for Dorion here?

He wanted to win now. Vegas wanted to spend big and win now. The Sens did not - that would have meant committing to Karlsson and Duchene ect.

So anyways, VGK + Stone was a perfect match for them both. Let's just be happy for him, and happy the rebuild worked out nicely for us.

That rebuild has not worked out yet.

 

[JD1]

That rebuild has not worked out yet.

You're right, it hasn't worked out yet

But your post got me thinking....what's the definition of "worked out" ???

I think we'll see a wide variety of opinions on what that term means

I'm not sure what it means to me but it's definitely not cup or bust. So much has to go right to win.

 

[aragorn]

I would like to add that "top first line winger" is relative. If this team wants to contend, as they claim they do, a 50 point player cannot be your 1RW when you're in the contending phase. If for the next two seasons he's putting up 50-60 points while the team continues the rebuild, I'll be ecstatic. If he can put up decent numbers in the next two seasons while the team is likely to perform poorly, those numbers will only increase as the team improves.

What if the forward lines were to have 4 or 5, 50 pt players? Would that make a difference? IMO Stuetzle, Batherson, L. Brown, Norris, Jarventie, Tkachuk & Chabot on defence all have 50 pt potential (maybe even Sokolov too). It probably helps the team if they spread the scoring around & opposing teams can't target just one line.