Agreed. Most of this buyer's/seller's market speculation on here is fans of potential sellers saying it's a seller's market and fans of potential buyers saying it's a buyer's market. When all it ever is, is how much is player X worth to team Y. The Devils' return may raise the ASK from selling teams, but it certainly doesn't necessarily raise the RETURN.
Speculation: Sellers market confirmed?
- Thread starter Michoulicious
- Start date
Agreed. Most of this buyer's/seller's market speculation on here is fans of potential sellers saying it's a seller's market and fans of potential buyers saying it's a buyer's market. When all it ever is, is how much is player X worth to team Y. The Devils' return may raise the ASK from selling teams, but it certainly doesn't necessarily raise the RETURN.
Not a rental market yet. I think teams have learned from the past that rentals aren't great options, lots of risk for little reward. Seems lately more lateral swaps with guys who still have term.
WingsMJN2965
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- Oct 13, 2017
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I don't think the Zucker deal was high at all. You are getting 4 playoff years of a top 6 forward in his prime that has put up over 30 goals and 60 points before. So far he has 2 goals and 3 points in his first 3 games with the Pens. I think a low 1st round pick which has only a 50% chance of developing into a productive NHL player plus a boom or bust smallish defenseman prospect that his Junior numbers have not increased in his last 3 years of Junior play is much of a price for Zucker.
I think the Zucker deal was not bad at all for the Pens. I would of hated giving up that package for a rental like Kreider. Also would of hated giving up that package for Coleman who is not as good a player and only 1 1/2 years of control. I think Rutherford made a very good deal. Honestly anyone thinking you are going to get a 20+ goal and 45+ point player over the past 3 years with 4 years of control for less is dreaming. Plus I can see Zucker producing at a higher level with the Pens and on a line with Crosby.
Flyer lurker
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- Feb 16, 2019
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They are all seller's prices and I don't want my team involved. a no 1 a future no 4 d-man and 5.75m in future cap space is a big value for Tucker. Pens, Avalanche, Caps, Lightning, Bruins, Blues MAYBE Dallas are teams that you make a case to go for it and overpay. Other teams that overpay in this market are going to get burned.
Honestly, I'm not even sure he did. Lovejoy returned a current 3 + 7th D type in Connor Carrick last year.
Greene is better than Lovejoy I think, the second rounder is a year out, and the additional player is echl , ahl fodder. At least Carrick was ahl / 7th D fodder
Coleman and Zucker aren't rentals so no, I wouldnt say it's a sellers market at all.
If anything these last two deals for Zucker and Coleman shows the increasing trend of teams that don't want to pay for pure rentals and would rather overpay for guys with term that will help for longer than just one cup run.
If anything these last two deals for Zucker and Coleman shows the increasing trend of teams that don't want to pay for pure rentals and would rather overpay for guys with term that will help for longer than just one cup run.
WinterLion
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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I think those two player NJD just traded were tops on many teams lists... so we may need to take this with a grain of salt
Coleman ? Max 36 points a season
Greene ? 37y old D-man with no offensive production and who would play 3rd line for 5m cap
Are we speaking about the same players ?
ADD-devil950003
Registered User
The market has been set, but not for rentals really. Zucker and Coleman have more than this season left on their contract which led to a higher return. Also, as others have said Blake making $1.8 mil/per was the ultimate sweetener. A team like Tampa will overpay bc they know that he fits very nice in their cap and they still have some other players to pay. The way I see it, Blake was worth the first bc of his play and the term, the devils got Foote bc of the low low cap hit Coleman brings. The devils didn’t need to trade him and could have brought him back and tried to re-sign him as a guy who mentors the young kids and leads through example. However, you don’t pass up a super promising young prospect, AND a potential top 20 draft pick.
Coleman has term and a very cheap cap hit for a guy who has scored 20 two seasons in a row. I'm sure his role will be reduced in Tampa, but I think this is a fantastic deal for the Bolts. The reason these prices are high is because players with term are getting dealt. I feel like prices have dropped for rentals, because teams are starting to see it rarely is worth it to drop a 1st rounder on a guy to play 20-30 games for your team.
I don’t think you’ve seen them play. Greene isn’t Karlsson in the back end when it comes to offense but he can still move the puck quite well. He is a great shot blocker and one of the best PK d in the league. Not to mention the intangibles he brings. I thought he would bring in a second with 50% retained. The fact that it wasn’t retained is a bonus for NJ to retain on a Simmonds AND Vatanen.Coleman ? Max 36 points a season
Greene ? 37y old D-man with no offensive production and who would play 3rd line for 5m cap
Are we speaking about the same players ?
As for Coleman. It isn’t just about the talent that brings a players value up. It is also the salary and term.
Imagine a player on pace for 30 goals this year with no PP time, also being a top PKer and one of the hardest workers in the league at 1.8 million. Let’s pretend he was a UFA this year. His return would be a Nolan Foote caliber player. Give or take.
now add another full year for him at 1.8 million and the extra first seems more reasonable
I am not saying they are bad players (regarding Greene the return does not seem absurd even though I still see him rather as a 5/6 D in NYI, right?), I am just saying that I do not believe anybody was considering them to be on the top of the potential trades (Toffoli, Pageau, Kreider). Honestly I am happy that they got these returns : this supports my thesis that HF fans overvalue their prospects and picks
I agree. I think any devil fan will tell you they didn’t think coleman was gonna be traded.I am not saying they are bad players (regarding Greene the return does not seem absurd even though I still see him rather as a 5/6 D in NYI, right?), I am just saying that I do not believe anybody was considering them to be on the top of the potential trades (Toffoli, Pageau, Kreider). Honestly I am happy that they got these returns : this supports my thesis that HF fans overvalue their prospects and picks
I am not saying they are bad players (regarding Greene the return does not seem absurd even though I still see him rather as a 5/6 D in NYI, right?), I am just saying that I do not believe anybody was considering them to be on the top of the potential trades (Toffoli, Pageau, Kreider). Honestly I am happy that they got these returns : this supports my thesis that HF fans overvalue their prospects and picks
No, this is you not having a sweet f***ing clue who Blake Coleman is.
I'd guarantee he was at the top of contending teams list of players they wanted.
Lol aggressive much ?
So a 28 year old with one good half NHL season was on the top of the list... I bow to your wisdom and I am sure you also predicted how much he would return
Gostisbehere might fetch a good return. Flyers should definitely investigate even if its selling "low". He has 2 very strong seasons in the past and is on a great contract and is only 26 or 27 years old.
Coleman is DECENT - not sick, but his contract IS SICK.
And TBL needed precisely that to help avoid another playoff collapse. Energy players excel in those situations whether it be a big hit, fight, or a grindy goal. That's what they do and that's why teams keep them around.
And theres no stat for that kind of player or play
Lol aggressive much ?
So a 28 year old with one good half NHL season was on the top of the list... I bow to your wisdom and I am sure you also predicted how much he would return
Anyone who had an understanding of the kind of impact Coleman can have knew he was getting a 1st round pick + yes. I was surprised the prospect they got was Nolan Foote, but that's the cost of getting one of the very best middle 6 forwards in the league on one of the nest contracts in the league for an additional year.
Like I said. You're clearly basing your opinion solely off of points, meaning your "scouting" report consisted of a quick glance at HockeyDB and that's it. I stand by what I said, you dont know anything about the player Coleman is or the impact he has on the game.
Coleman is basically Paul Byron 2 years ago. 28 y old, hard working, fast, great PKer, many breakaways. Developped late.
Good player? Sure.
Worth the equivalent of 2 firsts? Heck no.
Coleman was playing high and many mintes in a bad lineup. Not saying he won't be a good 3rd liner for Tampa... But it's a bad trade.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
I mean, anyone who has actually watched the guy play wouldn't use the word "decent."
He's one of the most electric energy players in the league, and he makes peanuts. His "jam" is the exact ingredient that TB has been missing in their recent (failed) playoff runs.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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There are only so many contenders and they will run out of 1sts.
Tor, Pitts, and TB in the east already.
Leaves Bos and Wsh in the East.
Tor, Pitts, and TB in the east already.
Leaves Bos and Wsh in the East.
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