Minny got Vanek for fair money and term , in fact most teams except he the Islanders and Pens did ok.
Who would of thought Vanek and Stastny would sign for 3 and 4 years.
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Minny got Vanek for fair money and term , in fact most teams except he the Islanders and Pens did ok.
Who would of thought Vanek and Stastny would sign for 3 and 4 years.
Puck Hog
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Habs are definitely taking a step back this year unless Price has a career season. There are waaaaaaaaaaay too many "IFs": this year.
We are super solid in goal and bottom 6.
Top 6 offense is a crap shoot. Can Plex have a good offensive year? Will we get playoff Eller or mid-season Eller? DD and Patches will be fine though I worry about Patches having the A - I could see it affecting his O production negatively. Will Galchenyuck take that next step? How will the Habs react to a change in leadership. Injuries??? We were lucky last year - this year expect a couple of curve balls.
D is questionable too. Will Emelin thrive on his proper side. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be making mistakes - expect us to lose more 1 goal games for the sake of their learning curves. Will Gilbert's puck moving abilities make up for the the defensive downgrade from Gorges.
This is a year for the kids to learn and solidify their spots. I feel that Galchenyuck, Beaulieu and Tinordi will take steps forward - but the team will likely suffer for it in the short term
We are super solid in goal and bottom 6.
Top 6 offense is a crap shoot. Can Plex have a good offensive year? Will we get playoff Eller or mid-season Eller? DD and Patches will be fine though I worry about Patches having the A - I could see it affecting his O production negatively. Will Galchenyuck take that next step? How will the Habs react to a change in leadership. Injuries??? We were lucky last year - this year expect a couple of curve balls.
D is questionable too. Will Emelin thrive on his proper side. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be making mistakes - expect us to lose more 1 goal games for the sake of their learning curves. Will Gilbert's puck moving abilities make up for the the defensive downgrade from Gorges.
This is a year for the kids to learn and solidify their spots. I feel that Galchenyuck, Beaulieu and Tinordi will take steps forward - but the team will likely suffer for it in the short term
Sterling Archer
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Funny how 2 different people can see things so differently.
I see us having a much more solid team this year than last and having upgraded on several positions as well as having more depth and experience.
Main subtractions are Gio, Briere, Murray, Bou, Gorges
Main additions are PAP, Gilbert, Malhotra, Sekac, Tinner, Beau
I'd say, arguably, there was an improvement in every single one of the replacement for the departed and we have a younger, faster, more experienced team then before.
Also, PK is a year older and will be expected to earn his new contract. Price has another year where he showed he can be a Vezina type goalie for this organization. Gally's also are no longer softmores and know exactly what it takes to be in the NHL and I'd expect a very good year from Chucky in particular.
Plex may slow down but Eller is a guy who can step into that role and produce as he showed in long stretches last year.
Also, the players are now much more of a team than they were last year when some were more a collection of spare parts, Briere being the perfect example. Eller, Bourque and Weise showed a tremendous amount of chemistry as did the top line of Patches DD and Gally. Malhotra helps cement down a very good 4th line rather than a collection of spare parts we had last year.
I think this years team will be among the top in the east and a real threat in the playoffs. Last year was an anoucment that our window has opened as a team to be reckoned with.
Patches DD Gally
Chucky Plex PAP
Bork Eller Wiese
Moen Manny Prust
Sekac Bournival
Markov PK
Emelin Gilbert
Beau Weaver
Tinner Pateryn
Price
Budaj/Tokarski
That's a better lineup than last year IMHO.
As for the "ifs" EVERY team has those every year. i think we have less "ifs" this year than last, at least the important ones. last year it was will Price play to his level? Will PK be the player who won the Norris? Will Patches score 30? Can Gio keep pace? etc. Now it's more along the lines of will Sakac/Andreghettos make the team? etc... Hardly the main concerns we had a ear ago.
The Aves are my 2nd favorite team
If I were to guess I think PAP will play on the 2nd line with Plekanec and Galchenyuk or on the 3rd line with Eller and Bourque. It all depends on how the coach is going to use Sekac.
Sorinth
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Not that I don't necessarily agree with your overall assessment as I do think we will challenge for the division. But it's a mistake to not include Vanek in your list of your Subtractions. I know he was only here for a short time, but you have to consider pre-Vanek we were struggling to score 5on5. Without him we weren't the team that finished with 100 points and went to the ECF, we were the team that played sub .500 hockey for almost the whole season except a streak of 9 wins in 10 games in Nov/Dec.
Burke the Legend
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What's annoying is they put the guy on expert panels beside NHL Coaches, Players & GMs like he is their equal when he is just a rumourmongering journalist (can he even skate?).
Puck Hog
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I would list Vanek as the main departure. Relying on 3 rookies to increase the level of play seems really Iffy. Also, Gilford is less of a D presence than Gorges - hopefully the benefits of possession and moving the puck out of the zone will be a net positive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic to have our rookies and young players take on significant roles on the team - it's the right decision. The downside is they have to learn - and you learn by messing up. The league is as competitive as its ever been, having the likes of Eller, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Sekac I think will lead to an inordinate amount of losses in close games.
I think we'll be battling for the 7 to 9 slots.
Sterling Archer
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Completly forgot Vanek. maybe because he wasn't a key part of our playoff run and never really integrated into the team. Not downplaying it but he was pure rental from day one even though he did help out a lot.
i think you're putting too much emphasis on the "rookie" factor. The only real change in the line up where "rookie" will hopefully step in is Tinner and Beau for Murray and Bou. That's an upgrade in just about anyones books. As for gorges leaving, his defensive minutes will be eaten up mostly by Weaver, especially on the PK. Gilbert will supliment our 2nd PP that was behond hoorible last last. Remeber a 2nd unit of Gorges and Bou
Now we'll likelt have Beau - Gilbert which should help the PP a lot and add a lot more points to the board. Not to mention Gilbert is expert at moving the puck out, something Gorges lagged in and is no defensive slouch himself. Overall the top 4 has improved on our defense with much better balance and an offensive upgrade and our bottom 2 have also upgraded.As for up front, we're effectively replacing Gio for PAP, which again is an upgrade in most peoples books, inlcuding my own. Gio had leadership but lost a step and it was very apparent he's no longer a top 6 NHL player. The other changes are really to the bottom 6 as the top 3 lines are mainly intact which i also think is much better and all lines serve a purpose now.
The main core of the team hasn't really changed at all. Patches, PK, Price are all expected to continue to play to the level they've all shown they can play at as has Gallagher. Galchenyuk will be expected to have much more offensive numbers this year but it's hardly the end of the Habs season if he doesn't.
IF a rookie were to break the lineup and make a difference like Ghetto, DLR, Big Mac etc, than great! but it's nothing that HAS to happen to make a meaningful difference to the play on the ice that's nearly identical to last years team save for a few upgrades.
Patches DD Gally - same as last years top line
Chucky Plex PAP > Chucky Plex Gio
Bork Eller Wiese - dominate in PO's
Moen Manny Prust > than any combo we had last year on the 4th line
Sekac Bournival > Briere and Parros
Markov PK - Was won of the best tandems in the NHL last year for the limited timethey played together.
Emelin Gilbert - Great balance of defense and offense
Beau Weaver > Bou and Weaver or any other combo with Bou
Tinner Pateryn > Better options than Murray
Puck Hog
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I agree.
Parity + Rookies + Injuries (we were lucky last year) = Habs battling for final 2 spots in playoffs.
Sorinth
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Even in the playoffs he was tied for 2nd in goals and 6th in points. Certainly below where we wanted/needed him but he provided decent secondary scoring that hasn't been replaced.
Like I said we were a .500 team without Vanek except for one great hot streak. So we need the replacement players to be much better than the guys they are replacing if we expect to be more than a bubble team. Shouldn't be a problem for Tinordi/Beaulieu, but PAP/Gilbert vs Gionta/Gorges is mostly a wash in my books (Better puck skills worse defensively).
Sorinth
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On the flip side virtually every player on the roster had a near career worst, which is extremely unlucky. So if a few players have bounce back seasons and end up producing somewhere between the highs of 2012-2013 and the lows of 2013-2014 then we should be in the playoffs comfortably, just probably not contenders.
Sterling Archer
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You're also discounting the youngsters are another year older and better equipped for the challenges of the NHL. Also, our problem as ou pointed out was scoring goals, not defense. We added more goals to the roster, better balance and more speed.
Gilbert is very good defensively and having a 2nd unit PP can't be discounted. Neither can having 2 young, hungry talented defensmen who can round off an already solid D corp. I don't think the GA will suffer as much as you think it will and I think offense goes up.
On top of that, Vanek came in at the end of a year and helped the team get confidence it didn't have previously. Now that they've been to the ECF, they have a lot more confidence and higher expectations. That makes a huge difference when going into a season. Given we still have a few million in the bank to start the year as we did last year, I'd say MB will try to do what he did last year and try to get a rental for the PO and hopefuly sign in the off season this time.
When looking at the east, a lot of teams got worse which will also help us this year. Not saing we're going to finish 1st (which is possible) but if we're battling for a play off spot this year, I think it will be seen as a major set back. Higher expectations this year and for good reason. The kids are coming into their own and there's more coming to take their place.
Sorinth
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Didn't all of Gallagher, Galchenyuk, and Eller's ppg all go down last season compared to the year before. Being a year older doesn't guarantee increased production. With virtually the same roster we were a top scoring team in 2012-2013 and a terrible one in 2013-2014. I think there's a good chance we bounce back somewhere between the two years but it's not because of the roster changes.
The D is the big question mark for the team. They are certainly a more mobile and offensive oriented group and that could certainly make us better defensively if our possession numbers improve significantly. And a better transition game could help our forwards score more too. I'm just not sold on Gilbert being this great 2nd pairing guy, but admittedly that's partly ignorance as I've never followed him that closely.
A lot of the guys had already been to the ECF in 2010 with us. I'm not sure it adds that much more confidence to the group.
Hey don't get me wrong, the East is wide open, and no team in the East is even clearly better then us. Even the "top" teams like Boston and Pittsburgh have huge question marks going into this year. I actually think we should go for it and be willing to trade a top prospect like Beaulieu or Tinordi to get an impact player right now.
I'm just not sure we have really improved over last year, especially offensively. Expecting a young guy to take a big step and solve our offensive problems seems like a plan destined to fail, even though guys like Galchneyuk could easily do so. How many years did we spend thinking the same thing about Higgins, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, etc...
Sterling Archer
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It doesn't guarntee they'll get better but you would hope that young players get better and better as they progress into the NHL. The softmore slump is well known and injury didn't help Chucky either. As they have another year under their belt, they can focus more on the task at hand rather then trying to adjust to the NHL.
The main reason Gorges was traded was because management didn't think he was a top 4 defenseman and it caused an imbalance on the defense i.e. LH D on the wrong side. Getting Gilbert, a tested top 4 guy and a RH puck moving defensman who is also underappreciated for his defense allieviated all those problems in one fell swoop.
the defense now has perfect balance of RH & LH playing the right side, offense and defense and puck moving abilities on all pairings. Besides, the only change will be Gilbert for Gorges which I think is an upgrade for the type of hockey the habs play and will greatly improve the transition game. Markov and PK already played together last year and were phenomenal and the bottom pairing will only improve by replacing Bou and Murray with Beau and Tinner. I'd also say Emelin will have a much better season on the left side as his achilles heal last year was the pivot to catch up which is why players blew past him. Now plaing his natural side, he won't have to make that move anymore which can only improve his play.
Questions yes, but all things being equal, we should have a bette defense this year.
None of the current core players played or had a meaningful impact on that team. This is a team of transistion and youngesters that have gelled together as a group that is a completely different team from the 2010 team. Not sure how you can compare the two the core is 100% different.
You hit the nail on the head. The east is wide open and we took advantage of it last season. We have cornerstone players in all positions (Price, PK Patches) and as good a mix of vets and youngsters as there is in the east. There really isn't any one team that is a runaway leader and the ones that were in the past got worse in the offseason (Pittsburgh, Boston). Out of the teams in our division, I'd say only TB got better. As for the rest, I don't see any of them as being a mjor threat. That's why I don't see us competing for a playoff spot but rather pushing for the lead in the division like we did last year.
Will Bishop have the same Vezina type year he did last year and can the surprise rookies maintain their pace from last year? How many more miles does Chara, Bergeroen have left in the tank? Can Dats stay healthy all year and how about Detroit's goaltending and defense? Toronto, Ottawa hahahaha, etc etc etc Other teams have far bigger "ifs" than the Habs do IMO so we should be able to pull ahead of them and stay near the top all things being equal.
Sorinth
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I don't disagree, but if the "plan" includes young players getting better you're setting yourself up for failure. You can't plan/expect for that kind of thing. You hope for it sure, you adjust roles/responsibilities to help it along but counting on it is a mistake.
So Therrien didn't think Gorges was a top-4 guy yet played him on the top-pairing? That makes no sense. Management wanted to balance the playing sides and wanted a stronger transition game, they had to move one of Emelin or Gorges to do that and they chose to keep Emelin. Has nothing to do with Gorges not being a top-4 guy, or Gilbert being tested as a top-4, whatever that means.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the defence for the reasons you mentioned but I'm not ready to say that we've improved. There's a reason Gilbert is available for relatively cheap. We shuffled things around and changed the style moreso then actually improved. Whether that new style will work for us and whether Therrien can implement it properly is a concern for me.
Plekanec, Subban are core players now and then. Gorges/Gionta were core players during both runs, though are now gone. Even a guy like Price who wasn't a core player in 2010, surely he learnt what he needed to in 2010 and not in 2014.
But my main point is that the 2010 run didn't instill some huge amount of confidence in the team that helped bring them to the next level. It was pretty much a down year let down for most of the team. Plekanec, Cammalleri, Kostitsyn, Gionta, Gomez, all became less productive the following year. So expecting this run to instill the confidence seems misguided.
optimus2861
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Who of Detroit, Ottawa, and Toronto are going to add the 8-15 points necessary to surpass us in the standings? I suppose it's possible for Detroit, but they underwhelmed last year and aren't getting any younger. Ottawa dealt Spezza. There's no way to spin that as anything but a step back. And Toronto, well, Toronto is still the clusterfark that it has long been. It will take Shanahan a while to turn that mess around.
I think we're a lock for a top-3 spot in the division with Boston & Tampa Bay. I wouldn't want to guess at the order though.
WeThreeKings
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Deebs
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WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sterling Archer
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I'm not sure what your arguement is here. I think it's normal that EVERY team expects their younger players to get better every year. This isn't some new concept as very few players peak at 18 or 19. Besides, I said multiple times in previous posts that the Habs success didn't hinge on Galchenyuk scoring 30 goals or geting 70 points as we've never seen him do that in the past, nor is he being put in a position to carry the offensive load (still on wing and not centre). Same can be said for Eller who'll likely continue to play on the 3rd line and Gally who was put on to crash the net on the 1st line, not score goals. Once again, these younger player aren't expected to carry the team but there is most cerntainly an expectation that they will contniue to grow as players and increase their contribution to the team. Nothing contraversal here, I don't think, so I'm not sure why it's a point to debate but I digress.
Therrian doesn't make trades, Bergevin does. Therrien plays the players he has available. At the time Gorges was our top 4 and hence played in that role. Bergevin obviously saw something he didn't like and didn't think Gorges was worth the $4M in that role. You don't trade a player who's doing his job, is one of the leaders on the team and is a personal best friend of your franchise goalie because you got bored one morning or had too much to drink. Seeing as Emelin was their man over Gorges, leads me to believe that Habs management thought Emelin was a better player than Gorges as was Gilbert. So if one of the top GM's in the game with a finally competant front office thought both Emelin and Gilbert were better in the top 4 than Gorges, I'm inlcined to beleive them. Unlike you or I, they have done much more scouting and know much more about what's what than we will ever know. It was a hard trade to make yet they still made it for a reason.
Again, there was a minor change made to our top 4. If our entire defensive corp was being held together by Gorges than we're in much worse shape than I could have imagined. All they've done is swap Gorges for Gilbert and moved Emelin to a side he won't be exposed on. Hardly turning over the corp. As for Beau and Tinner, both are way better options than Murray or Bou. So again, improved defense.
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PK was NOT a core player in 2010 by any extent of the imagination. Again, I'm not sure what your point is. The two were VERY different teams even if they had a handful of the same players. Different coaches, GM's systems etc etc etc. Apples to oranges comparisons. For the players who were there, great more playoff experience. But for players like Gallagher, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Bournival, etc who will play for us for a long time, a long playoff run can help with your confidance and show you what it takes to get to the next level. Even for players like Price who had a monkey on his back on whether he could win in the PO's, getting past Boston was a HUGE deal. Same can be said fro PK who elevated his game after an up and down season and lead his team against the bruins and was a huge factor during the playoffs. Patches scoring the series winner in a game 7 was also a great experience for a guy who really played in his first PO sereis after he missed the last one due to injury. These are the guys who are going to get you to the next level and they all got a huge boost of confidance and showed themselves and the world what they're capable of doing. Now they have the ability to continue the momentum with more responsibility and more opportunity than they had previously. I don't see how they don't take this with them into the new season and have a bit more swagger in their game knowing what they can accomplish. Maybe they won't, who knows but I'd say they're all better for their experience.
There are a plethora of reasons why the team went down hill after 2010 which aren't currently present. I'd say the teams run in 2010 was more of an anomoly and a style of play they were built around (no clutching and grabbing/obstruction) post lockout that no longer applied after, management, Gomez falling off the map, lack of leadership withing the team and management, lack of promising prospects etc etc etc.
Look, no one know what will be. The Habs could tank and draft McDavid like the year we finshed last and got Galchenyuk. I'm saying, given the teams in the east, given we've already seen this team succeed so it's not only a matter of potential but actual results, the odds of them being worse than last year after they seemingly, arguably improved, seems like the long shot to me. Now that they're further in the competative window than they were last year, I'd expect steady progression until we become perrenial contenders. Finishing 8th or there abouts for a team that was 2 wins away from a Finals birth would be a failure IMO. I see us amongst the top teams in the east being Tampa, Boston, Pittsburgh, Rangers. I think we're absolutley more in this category than Toronto, Ottawa, Florida etc.
Sterling Archer
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Sorinth
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