Season is over - thoughts on 2019/2020

[mrbagina]

I had high hopes for this group when the big tickets started out here in Toronto and after that first year against the Caps I was stoked...

then Babs...

with the "you can't win playing fun" and turning this high powered energetic group into one of the more boring teams in the league, I found myself losing interest. In comes our new coach and for the first little while I really liked what I was seeing, then all of a sudden it was almost like watching a Babs team again...the soft and weak collapsing system in our own end looking a lot like Babs teams...the lack of changing lines up when they arent working , which Keefe did do when he first arrived.

But more than anything for me that leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the lack of sticking up for each other and overall having a seemingly "whatever" kind of attitude towards intensity and camaradorie. This team is soft soft soft and it seems by design and if so, its hard for me to get into it. I don't wanna feel like I do, but a bunch of over payed done nothing in their careers yet paid like it toddlers not looking like they give two shits most of the time leaves me very apprehensive about giving up my time for these guys. I have been a fan for a long long time as many of you have and was over the moon with excitment when the new guard showed up. Now?....we will see.

 

[PromisedLand]

#FireDubas

 

[Buds17]

Failed to meet expectations. Had hoped for a better finish than third in the division. Tough not to think that was where things were looking to end up over a full season. Of course, that's only partially relevant now given current circumstances. Thankfully, the Leafs also aren't simply just a regular season team at this point either.

 

[saffronleaf]

Babcock part of the season was incredibly frustrating and painful.

Even when we got Keefe, Andersen and all backups (until Campbell) were appallingly bad.

Should consider rolling with Campbell for the playoffs.

 

[X66]

You say Babcock was fired too late, and perhaps, but yet the injuries that you've listed just below most of them happen with him still as the coach. Hyman, Dermott and Marner in particular.

Those two points to me are separate.

I could just see how the team was playing under Babcock, system wise wasn't doing it, injuries or not.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The performance after Babcock was fired proved he was a huge problem. "He was missing players" is a bad excuse considering Keefe lost even bigger players to injury on defence, which is a position we are weak on, and somehow kept us afloat. Looks like the Babcock defenders were incorrect, in thinking he wasn't given a good situation.

I wonder how the season would have started if Keefe was the coach from their 1st game instead of their 24th game which is when he took over. Yes they would still have started this season without Hyman and Dermott, however I don't think Keefe would have made Jason Spezza a healthy scratch against Ottawa during the season opener. Plus that drama around Spezza and with him being a veteran couldn't have been good, especially since Babcock questioned his role during training camp.

Spezza looking to win Babcock over in limited role with Leafs - TSN.ca

'It's a joke': Reaction to Mike Babcock scratching Jason Spezza for Toronto Maple Leafs opener - TSN.ca

 

[LeafsNation75]

Agreed here as well. That doesn't mean I agreed with every thing Keefe did. Breaking up the 3rd line when they were terrific is something I criticized, along with small stuff like starting Tavares in OT over Matthews, but overall he did a solid job.

In the 5th game with Keefe as the coach they defeated Buffalo in overtime and it was Tavares who scored the winning goal at the 1:45 mark.



Now since the clock showed there was 3:15 left in the overtime when the goal was scored we know Tavares didn't start the overtime, because it was Matthews who did that and you can see it on the play by play chart from the NHL website.

Buffalo Sabres - Toronto Maple Leafs - November 30th, 2019

 

[Rare Jewel]

Those two points to me are separate.

I could just see how the team was playing under Babcock, system wise wasn't doing it, injuries or not.

Well to me if he's in that position, he probably should be judged when has his players fit. The season didn't start that badly considering the congestion of games (back to backs particularly) and the competition. I think we played Boston three times and Washington twice in Babcock's 20 or so games.

Systematically though, there wasn't a lot different to the prior two seasons and they no problem winning games and scoring then.

 

[stickty111]

In the 5th game with Keefe as the coach they defeated Buffalo in overtime and it was Tavares who scored the winning goal at the 1:45 mark.



Now since the clock showed there was 3:15 left in the overtime when the goal was scored we know Tavares didn't start the overtime, because it was Matthews who did that and you can see it on the play by play chart from the NHL website.

Buffalo Sabres - Toronto Maple Leafs - November 30th, 2019

Thats okay but I was talking more in general sense.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well to me if he's in that position, he probably should be judged when has his players fit. The season didn't start that badly considering the congestion of games (back to backs particularly) and the competition. I think we played Boston three times and Washington twice in Babcock's 20 or so games.

Systematically though, there wasn't a lot different to the prior two seasons and they no problem winning games and scoring then.

In terms of the Leafs back to back games let's also remember Babcock had his rule where Andersen starts the first night and the back up starts the second night, no matter what.

On October 15, 2019 they played Minnesota and on October 16, 2019 they played Washington and lost. What if Hutchinson started against the Wild, could the Leafs still won that night? I ask because they lost that next game against the Capitals 4-3 and maybe Andersen could have been a difference.

Later that same month they played Columbus on October 21, 2019 and lost in overtime on a penalty shot with Andersen, than the night on October 22, 2019 they lost to the Bruins in Boston with Hutchinson in net. That was when the media like Dave Poulin was calling for Babcock to change his thinking to start Andersen against Boston since they were the better team compared to Columbus.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Thats okay but I was talking more in general sense.

Personally speaking I have no problem with Keefe starting an overtime with Tavares or Matthews because we know either one can score a goal at any moment. Remember when Babcock would start an overtime with Kadri and Komarov for defensive purposes, like he did against the Blues on February 9, 2017 and they lost 2-1 just 20 seconds into the overtime.

St. Louis Blues - Toronto Maple Leafs - February 9th, 2017

The next day Jeff O'Neil went crazy saying why didn't he start Matthews and Nylander in the overtime since they were playing at home and against a Western Conference team, so it's not like they gave the bonus point to a divison rival or another Eastern Conference team.

 

[ottomaddox]

I had high hopes for this group when the big tickets started out here in Toronto and after that first year against the Caps I was stoked...

then Babs...

with the "you can't win playing fun" and turning this high powered energetic group into one of the more boring teams in the league, I found myself losing interest. In comes our new coach and for the first little while I really liked what I was seeing, then all of a sudden it was almost like watching a Babs team again...the soft and weak collapsing system in our own end looking a lot like Babs teams...the lack of changing lines up when they arent working , which Keefe did do when he first arrived.

But more than anything for me that leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the lack of sticking up for each other and overall having a seemingly "whatever" kind of attitude towards intensity and camaradorie. This team is soft soft soft and it seems by design and if so, its hard for me to get into it. I don't wanna feel like I do, but a bunch of over payed done nothing in their careers yet paid like it toddlers not looking like they give two shits most of the time leaves me very apprehensive about giving up my time for these guys. I have been a fan for a long long time as many of you have and was over the moon with excitment when the new guard showed up. Now?....we will see.

It still begs the question: why did Shanny allow this type of team with these types of players? Did he forget about his entire career as a player?

 

[Joey Hoser]

It still begs the question: why did Shanny allow this type of team with these types of players? Did he forget about his entire career as a player?

What "type of players"? You mean "elite" players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly...?

 

[ottomaddox]

What "type of players"? You mean "elite" players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly...?

No.

You didn't read his post.

 

[Joey Hoser]

No.

You didn't read his post.

Ok I just read it. So you guys don't like having elite players and would prefer fighters?

 

[ottomaddox]

Ok I just read it. So you guys don't like having elite players and would prefer fighters?

No one is suggesting that.

 

[Joey Hoser]

No one is suggesting that.

"It still begs the question: why did Shanny allow this type of team with these types of players?"

That does suggest that, actually. What "type" of players are you talking about?

 

[I am Canadian]

Honestly the team was poor all year and this was supposed to be the step up.

Like it or not we are in our cup window. We don't have a replacement for Andersen and Rielly needs a new contract soon. They cannot go another season with bandaid solutions on the back end.

 

[Mess]

Wow, pretty lopsided poll results with 87.5% picking Failed to meet expectations

Defense, goaltending, coaching and management all getting average to failing grades..

Leafs offense the only thing the majority of Leaf fans seem to be happy with for the most part.

 

[ottomaddox]

"It still begs the question: why did Shanny allow this type of team with these types of players?"

That does suggest that, actually. What "type" of players are you talking about?

Yes it's all black and white. If you don't like this current Leafs team then you hate skilled players. If you love Toughness then you beg for Garnet Exelby to come out of retirement (or 24 more players like him).

People have the whole history of hockey at their disposal. They can look at previous Cup winners from the last 5 years, or they can go back further to see players like Brendan Shanahan.

Brendan had a whole career of NOT sticking up for his team mates, no push back, zero penalty minutes, 12 Lady Bing awards, not a scratch, not even a broken nail while he played...


No.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The team was kind of doomed from the start. Muzzin was a great pickup last year but the defensive juggling after that was a waste of time and a good asset (kadri). I like Jack campbell but the goaltending has been f'ed for a year and a half thanks to Dubas. I agree that Anderson was crap and is probably given far too much leeway from the coaches. They need to pull him before he kills the team on a bad night.
The injuries were a bit nasty but again, the delay in signing players, cost the team cap flexibility so we had that as a problem too.
Dubas has one kick at the can left to address defense. If he cant do it, there will be hell to pay.

It will be interesting off season to see if he can really FIX our defense but totally agreed it needs fixing. We can't keep going with 1 true defensive defender. We need at least 1 more likely 2. I hope I am wrong but I can't see Kerfoot and AJ getting us anything back to really help. But if we could switch both guys for a solid defender it could make da world of difference. We gave away our real serious chip in Kadri which turned out to be a disaster. Oh well spilt milk. I did not realize how bad Barrie was in his own end.

 

[The Iceman]

The team was kind of doomed from the start. Muzzin was a great pickup last year but the defensive juggling after that was a waste of time and a good asset (kadri). I like Jack campbell but the goaltending has been f'ed for a year and a half thanks to Dubas. I agree that Anderson was crap and is probably given far too much leeway from the coaches. They need to pull him before he kills the team on a bad night.
The injuries were a bit nasty but again, the delay in signing players, cost the team cap flexibility so we had that as a problem too.
Dubas has one kick at the can left to address defense. If he cant do it, there will be hell to pay.

Serious question. Andersen on a bad night or HUTCH?

 

[Fogelhund]

Made the playoffs, so from a regular season perspective... met expectations. Third in our division was about expected. Coaching divorce, plenty of injuries dictated less points, but then... it's regular season, just a qualification process, for what really matters.

 

[4thline]

Inconclusive. timing is everything, and the season "ended" at the end of a rough patch where the team struggled and kept their head above water with the D decimated by injury.

 

[Mess]

It will be interesting off season to see if he can really FIX our defense but totally agreed it needs fixing. We can't keep going with 1 true defensive defender. We need at least 1 more likely 2

Things on paper look like they're only going to get worse before they get better.

Journeyman 28 year old Justin Holl is the only signed RHD for next year other then rookie Liljegren, with both disappointments Barrie and Ceci pending UFAs and likely walking away.

With the pandemic going to put real downward pressure on the salary cap ceiling, and little room to move and breathe with a team already cap spent, not sure how expectations for next year are going to improve.