Player Discussion Sean Monahan

[Lunatik]

Wow people seem to be writing off Monahan as a #1 centre after half a season at the age of 20-21. 50-60 point centre? He's in his third year in the league and"struggling" and still on pace for 53 points and if he puts up a couple 2 point games, he will be right close to being on pace for 60 again.

And as Dack pointed out the PP is not producing nearly as often ans Monahan's ES points are actually equivalent to last season.

 

[JurassicTunga]

Wow people seem to be writing off Monahan as a #1 centre after half a season at the age of 20-21. 50-60 point centre? He's in his third year in the league and"struggling" and still on pace for 53 points and if he puts up a couple 2 point games, he will be right close to being on pace for 60 again.

And as Dack pointed out the PP is not producing nearly as often ans Monahan's ES points are actually equivalent to last season.

Thank you.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

People just love Johnny so much they're putting down his linemates to increase his hype meter.

 

[Lunatik]

People just love Johnny so much they're putting down his linemates to increase his hype meter.

I've seen one particular poster do that, not in this thread but elsewhere.

I think it's a case where people have unrealistic expectations and now that he's reached a bit of a plateau it is the end of the world.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Wow people seem to be writing off Monahan as a #1 centre after half a season at the age of 20-21. 50-60 point centre? He's in his third year in the league and"struggling" and still on pace for 53 points and if he puts up a couple 2 point games, he will be right close to being on pace for 60 again.

And as Dack pointed out the PP is not producing nearly as often ans Monahan's ES points are actually equivalent to last season.

I don't know why anyone would say he's not capable of being a 1C from this year. He's still better than practically everyone in his draft class

I said in another thread that Barkov was better, that's not a slight on Sean but rather a compliment as to how good Barkov is. I'm fully confident that Monahan will be a 70pt + player for the majority of his career with a few 65 pt years mixed in there, which is near elite. Very few 20 year old players have scored 30 goals in a season and no one should forget that. It's impressive regardless who his linemates were. It's hard to score any goals in the NHL, Johnny did not put the puck in the net 32 times for him, Sean did that for himself.

There's absolutely no reason why we can't have 2 topline centers like many of the elite teams have. Sean is not flashy, but he's very mature and it is presumptuous for someone to base their opinions on his career projection from this season alone when this young man isn't far removed from being a teenager. He's solid in his own end, his skating is so much improved from the time he was drafted, he's our top FO guy, he can score and he's got above average vision. He's definitely a special talent and I don't think his ceiling is known yet, but without a doubt it's higher than what he scored last year. He won't even be in his prime for probably another 2-3 seasons.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Monahan should have never been drafted.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Monahan should have never been drafted.

Was he TOO safe?

 

[Yung Rotini]

Monahan should have never been drafted.

Should have drafted Shinkaruk instead.

 

[Dertell]

It's not point production that's the problem with Monahan. He's always lost defensively, which is not a trait a 1C should have.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

It's not point production that's the problem with Monahan. He's always lost defensively, which is not a trait a 1C should have.

Again though, he's still so young. Is it not common for young players to make errors? Is learning the defensive side of the play not the most challenging thing for most young players? We hear it time and time again, that players need to learn to play defence if they want to play in the NHL. I also think, it's being overstated. It's more of a positioning thing that I've seen lapses in occasionally and that's something that can be easily fixed. Monahan may never be an elite Bergeron type, but I think he's already a very good 2-way player and he does so many small things right.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

It's not point production that's the problem with Monahan. He's always lost defensively, which is not a trait a 1C should have.

His 200 ft game is a ton better than his rookie year though in literally every facet. He is just hitting a speed bump. And he's still likely going to score 25-30 goals. Plus he had great finishes in both of his first years.
Everyone makes mistakes. His defensive weaknesses are really overstated IMO.

He will continue to get better, stronger faster and more confident. Most guys his age are still breaking into the league and Monahan will already have 80+ goals. You don't score 80 goals before you're 22 unless you can kind of hockey.

 

[Dertell]

Again though, he's still so young. Is it not common for young players to make errors? Is learning the defensive side of the play not the most challenging thing for most young players? We hear it time and time again, that players need to learn to play defence if they want to play in the NHL. I also think, it's being overstated. It's more of a positioning thing that I've seen lapses in occasionally and that's something that can be easily fixed. Monahan may never be an elite Bergeron type, but I think he's already a very good 2-way player and he does so many small things right.

I heavily disagree that he's already a very good 2-way player but I'll only address the bolded part.

It is common for young players to make errors. And these young players are usually in the AHL (or other development league first and foremost) to work on the flaws in their game, so they can become useful NHLers in a few years; that's why these leagues exist. Improving things like understanding what to do or where to be on the ice and covering players are favored in minor leagues over using a player's skillset to win now.

Let's remember Monahan was drafted #6 overall in 2013. High picks are high picks because they're believed to be close to be NHLers; their developments have been followed for a longer amount of time. Meaning, teams have a better idea of what kind of player they are and will end up being so they'll (hopefully) be sent in the NHL quicker. This is esp. true in Monahan's case, because he spent his entire draft+1 year in the NHL.

Monahan has played 201 games in the NHL. Improvement is certainly possible, but his age is not a proper indicator of how much growth should expected to be left.

 

[tmurfin]

Huh? Since Monahan was a high pick he should learn faster? The kid is a 30-30 guy ALREADY, it's not like center is the hardest position in hockey or anything . Unless the player is a generational talent, they don't become impact #1 centers over night. He's already at least a 1b guy who's shown significant strides after each offseason. I have faith he has even more room to grow.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

30-30 against other top NHL pairings. Should be in the AHL

 

[The Gnome]

I heavily disagree that he's already a very good 2-way player but I'll only address the bolded part.

It is common for young players to make errors. And these young players are usually in the AHL (or other development league first and foremost) to work on the flaws in their game, so they can become useful NHLers in a few years; that's why these leagues exist. Improving things like understanding what to do or where to be on the ice and covering players are favored in minor leagues over using a player's skillset to win now.

Let's remember Monahan was drafted #6 overall in 2013. High picks are high picks because they're believed to be close to be NHLers; their developments have been followed for a longer amount of time. Meaning, teams have a better idea of what kind of player they are and will end up being so they'll (hopefully) be sent in the NHL quicker. This is esp. true in Monahan's case, because he spent his entire draft+1 year in the NHL.

Monahan has played 201 games in the NHL. Improvement is certainly possible, but his age is not a proper indicator of how much growth should expected to be left.

seriously? Kid's still so young. This makes no sense, he has a ton of room left for growth still. His defensive issues are overblown on your part. Besides a guy who has shown he can put up 60 points in the NHL certainly does not belong in the AHL. If he was a defensive albatross fine, but he's clearly not.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Again though, he's still so young. Is it not common for young players to make errors? Is learning the defensive side of the play not the most challenging thing for most young players?

The problem with Monahan isn't just learning the defensive side. It's having the offensive skill to convert that into clean defensive plays. Monahan panics with the puck because he doesn't have the speed or puck skills to confidently push the puck up the zone. The gap between him and Stajan or Backlund isn't just play away from the puck, it's play in the defensive zone with the puck on his stick. Can you turn a Smid into a Brodie?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

seriously? Kid's still so young. This makes no sense, he has a ton of room left for growth still. His defensive issues are overblown on your part. Besides a guy who has shown he can put up 60 points in the NHL certainly does not belong in the AHL. If he was a defensive albatross fine, but he's clearly not.

"Clearly"?

Monahan is 8th worst among 157 forwards listed as centers (400 minutes played) in Scoring Chances Against and has been on the ice for more 5vs5 goals against than any other center in the league.

Even if you want to argue that Monahan plays tough minutes or that his linemates suck or that stats don't tell the whole story, the reality is there's nothing clear about Monahan "not" being a defensive albatross. There's no evidence to prove that claim, there's only evidence which throws cold water on it.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

"Clearly"?

Monahan is 8th worst among 157 forwards listed as centers (400 minutes played) in Scoring Chances Against and has been on the ice for more 5vs5 goals against than any other center in the league.

Even if you want to argue that Monahan plays tough minutes or that his linemates suck or that stats don't tell the whole story, the reality is there's nothing clear about Monahan "not" being a defensive albatross. There's no evidence to prove that claim, there's only evidence which throws cold water on it.

Well it does make sense. He's among the youngest center's in the league that are playing those types of minutes and facing the competition he is. I'd say the other one is Barkov, but as I mentioned before I think Barkov is a better player. Sean will figure it out, but the fact is that he's playing against every teams best players each night so it makes sense that he's been on the ice for a lot of goals. In another season or 2, I expect that number to go down by a far margin.

You would think that number would very similar for Gaudreau as well, but no one is saying he's a poor defensive player.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Well it does make sense. He's among the youngest center's in the league that are playing those types of minutes and facing the competition he is. I'd say the other one is Barkov, but as I mentioned before I think Barkov is a better player. Sean will figure it out, but the fact is that he's playing against every teams best players each night so it makes sense that he's been on the ice for a lot of goals. In another season or 2, I expect that number to go down by a far margin.

You would think that number would very similar for Gaudreau as well, but no one is saying he's a poor defensive player.

True, Gaudreau's numbers are similar, but Monahan also looks poor defensively a lot of the time (although not all the time; he definitely has moments where he does something that makes him look like a defensive ace). And while he's not terrible defensively, he's not great at it either; difference is, he's miles better than Monahan offensively and in transition.

But both guys do suffer from playing a notable amount of time in front of the Flames' bottom end dmen. I'm not sure what their numbers would look like if we removed the time playing with Russell/Wideman/bottom guys, but I'm sure it would look significantly better.

 

[Calgareee]

A good chunk of JG's (and therefore Monahan's) success comes at home because they can get favourable matchups. They are both young guys so when playing against the other teams best they get pushed around a bit. Last year made people a lot more optimistic about the current status of the flames but the reality is that we're ~3-4 years from being contenders and in that time Monahan's game is going to develop a bunch. As will the rest of the young guys. I would not be at all surprised to see Jonny and Money split up in the next year or two. We're missing a couple pieces to push us over the top and give us that offensive depth.

 

[chunkylover53]

Monahan looks worse this season, both in eye test, regular stats, adv stats, etc. even though stats indicate that he's having easier assignments. Maybe it's just the whole team regressing... but still.

 

[Bosnyi]

From what i've read he sounds alot like bergeron in his composure at a young age and the way guys want to mold him. Would be a good comparison?

His troubles also could be just a sophmore slump?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

From what i've read he sounds alot like bergeron in his composure at a young age and the way guys want to mold him. Would be a good comparison?

Bergeron at this age was much better defensively. I think a few comparisions for Monny would be Eric Staal and Jeff Carter though.

His troubles also could be just a sophmore slump?

What troubles? He's doing more than fine unless you were mistakenly buying into this "Monahan is the next Toews" nonsense that anyone who's seen Monahan and Toews play generally finds embarrassing. The only reason his stats are lagging compared to last year is because he doesn't have Hudler creating so much this year.

 

[Lunatik]

From what i've read he sounds alot like bergeron in his composure at a young age and the way guys want to mold him. Would be a good comparison?

His troubles also could be just a sophmore slump?

Not really a sophomore slump since it's his third year; but people are overreacting because it's the first time in his career when he has kind of stagnated; while Gaudreau is breaking out to be an offensive star and Bennett is proving to be flashier. Combine those with the team losing these people that are brainwashed into thinking top draft picks are the only way to win want to move him for question marks.

When the reality is he has constantly been improving defensively throughout his career but as a 3rd year player playing against top competition for the entire season for the first time he will have some ups and downs. He's a hard worker, natural leader and contrary to what some people like to believe Gaudreau improving offensively won't necessarily mean his linemates will produce more. In fact I would suggest that with Gaudreau have more confidence in his shot and burying more opportunities it has actually hurt Monahan's numbers since Monahan scores the majority of his goals within 5 feet of the crease and with fewer rebounds coming out and Gaudreau not looking for him on the doorstepp as often it has actually hurt his numbers, especially with Hudler's drop in production and the subsequent revolving door on RW.

Anyone whose opinion is worth anything knows that Monahan will be fine, will continue to improve, is more valuable to this team than an unscratched lottery ticket and is the future captain of this franchise. Which is another thing to consider, Monahan puts alot of pressure on himself to improve and with him wearing an 'A' now he might be putting too much pressure on himself.

 

[SKRusty]

Sean Monahan will be the star of his draft class.

He is a true student of the game. His tribulations will make him a much better and complete player. There is a reason Hartley anointed him the #1 center last year after 25 or so games and that is more a statement of Sean's dedication to the game, his team, and ultimately his ability to be the best player on the ice.

29 points and many are declaring the sky is falling. Well it is not.

Unlike Barkov, McKinnon or others in his draft year Sean didn't what to be shielded on the second line. He embraced the role he needed to play and with it he had to know there would be some growing pains.

I could get into the style of play the coaching staff has chose and how it is failing the team but that really serves no purpose.

Sean Monahan will still walk away from this season with 55 plus points and there will still be many that will point out his bad season but Trevling and Burke know who will lead the team to the cup.

The Flames on the whole are having a poor season.

Pick up a couple more pieces to the puzzle and look to the future. The sky is far from falling.