Scotty Bowman in Buffalo: What's the Story?

[Gambitman]

I think that it take a different skilset to coach stacked teams with superstars then it does to coach mid-bottom range teams. I don’t think too often that a coach is good at both. I also think it is far from easy to coach a team full of superstars. I think Bowman is the best “good team” coach of all time. I don’t think Bowman is a great coach of average or below average teams. I would put Sather in this group as well. On the flip side I don’t think you want a Darry Sutter coaching Lemieux or Gretzky. But a mid range team he can work magic.

 

[double5son10]

As we know, Scotty, at least until Detroit (maybe), was not well liked by his players. It's one thing to have your coach riding your ass, but if that man is also the GM, I can imagine that compounds the player's anxiety. Comments by his former Buffalo captains would seem to reflect that.

Danny Gare, Jim Schoenfeld and Derek Smith fired several...

Scotty Bowman was out of touch with hockey in...

 

[Hobnobs]

As we know, Scotty, at least until Detroit (maybe), was not well liked by his players. It's one thing to have your coach riding your ass, but if that man is also the GM, I can imagine that compounds the player's anxiety. Comments by his former Buffalo captains would seem to reflect that.

Danny Gare, Jim Schoenfeld and Derek Smith fired several...

Scotty Bowman was out of touch with hockey in...

What does Perreault know about that?

In any case people said that all the time. Dino said it when he left Red Wings. Players said it in Pittsburgh. Yet they won.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

I think that it take a different skilset to coach stacked teams with superstars then it does to coach mid-bottom range teams. I don’t think too often that a coach is good at both. I also think it is far from easy to coach a team full of superstars. I think Bowman is the best “good team” coach of all time. I don’t think Bowman is a great coach of average or below average teams. I would put Sather in this group as well. On the flip side I don’t think you want a Darry Sutter coaching Lemieux or Gretzky. But a mid range team he can work magic.

What about his work in St. Louis? Those were not stacked teams. They had great goaltending, but the rest of the team was pretty average. He got the most out of those teams as well as the stacked teams he coached, minus 1993 Pittsburgh and 1996 Detroit.

 

[Theokritos]

The thing is hes still better than other coaches who never really coached a below average team either. Like Quenneville, Arbour, Blake...

What makes Bowman a better coach than Blake?

 

[MS]

Bowman gets a lot of unwarranted crapping on his time in Buffalo. He wasn't an all time great GM but if you listen to people here it will sound like he did absurd things and was a bottom rated GM all time.

I think the biggest problem with Bowman though is that he was too hands on and couldnt leave coaching alone. Add that he made a couple of bad trades at the end of his time in Buffalo you could see why he was fired. He built a strong core by drafting Barrasso, Puppa, Housley, Andersson, Cyr, Tucker, Andreychuk, Calle Johansson, Krupp and a few more.

Heres a quote from his former boss and one of the greatest GMs of all time Sam Pollock

Agreed. When you look at the nuts and bolts of the job he did, it wasn't bad at all. Stole Foligno from Detroit, made several Pollock-type heists of #1 picks for aging veterans - had 3 #1 picks in both 1982 and 1983 despite being one of the best teams in the league. Made few poor trades that you could criticize in hindsight. The job he did through about 1984 was excellent and the sheer amount of draft picks and young talent he acquired left the organization in a good position when he left.

Unfortunately, he couldn't let someone else coach without interfering and didn't seem to be able to handle both jobs well - his overall performance really seemed to fall off in his last couple years and the team lost their way, and he probably deserved to be fired at that point.

And, of course, they couldn't win in the playoffs. Their regular-season record 1979-85 was on par with the best teams in the NHL but they were in an extremely tough division and just couldn't solve Boston or Quebec in the playoffs (or the dynasty Isles, the one year they made it to the 3rd round). If one of those teams was able to go on a deep run, his tenure in Buffalo is probably looked at very differently.

 

[Gambitman]

What about his work in St. Louis? Those were not stacked teams. They had great goaltending, but the rest of the team was pretty average. He got the most out of those teams as well as the stacked teams he coached, minus 1993 Pittsburgh and 1996 Detroit.

I guess I was never too impressed with his St Louis performance. They only played expansion teams in the playoffs until the finals. They were then swept in all 3 finals. I don’t mean he was a bad coach in St Louis he was better then the other 5 expansion teams obviously but I still maintain he is better suited to coaching good teams.

 

[Hobnobs]

I guess I was never too impressed with his St Louis performance. They only played expansion teams in the playoffs until the finals. They were then swept in all 3 finals. I don’t mean he was a bad coach in St Louis he was better then the other 5 expansion teams obviously but I still maintain he is better suited to coaching good teams.

Most werent impressed because of them going to the finals but how they played and Bowman changed the game. That and them pushing back against the mighty habs in all four games in 68.

 

[Chainshot]

Agreed. When you look at the nuts and bolts of the job he did, it wasn't bad at all. Stole Foligno from Detroit, made several Pollock-type heists of #1 picks for aging veterans - had 3 #1 picks in both 1982 and 1983 despite being one of the best teams in the league. Made few poor trades that you could criticize in hindsight. The job he did through about 1984 was excellent and the sheer amount of draft picks and young talent he acquired left the organization in a good position when he left.

Unfortunately, he couldn't let someone else coach without interfering and didn't seem to be able to handle both jobs well - his overall performance really seemed to fall off in his last couple years and the team lost their way, and he probably deserved to be fired at that point.

And, of course, they couldn't win in the playoffs. Their regular-season record 1979-85 was on par with the best teams in the NHL but they were in an extremely tough division and just couldn't solve Boston or Quebec in the playoffs (or the dynasty Isles, the one year they made it to the 3rd round). If one of those teams was able to go on a deep run, his tenure in Buffalo is probably looked at very differently.

Yet he was desperately attached to the players that he selected. Part of dealing Haworth to the Caps was to make sure the Caps did not take Housley (they had no intention of it, always being zeroed in on Scott Stevens). Those vets for firsts didn’t universally turn out - he whiffed badly on most of the picks he stockpiled. Yes, Housley, Andreychuk, Barrasso and healthy Tucker were very good, but they missed time and again on most of their others selections. The Dudachek selection was asinine, Jiri even later indicated he had never had any contact with the team and the report was Bowman saw him, fell in love with him and selected him.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

I believe Bowman thought he was ready to retire from coaching when he came to Buffalo. He had already won 5 Cups and had nothing else to prove as a head coach. The next logical step for Bowman was building a Cup champion on his own. I think once Neilson took over, Bowman realized he missed coaching and he began his meddling. A year and a half later, Bowman was back behind Buffalo's bench after canning Jimmy Roberts. Despite stepping down as coach in 1985, Bowman continued his meddling in coaching affairs, eventually firing Jim Schoenfeld halfway through the 1985-86 season.

Had Bowman decided to exclusively concentrate on his duties as a GM, he maybe could have found the missing ingredients to build Buffalo into a Cup champion. He was a good talent evaluator in my opinion who had misses just like every other GM. In addition to Barrasso, Andreychuk and Housley, Bowman also drafted Calle Johnasson, Uwe Krupp, Christian Ruutu, Daren Puppa, Ray Sheppard, and Benoit Hogue, all of whom would have productive careers. Juggling coaching and GM duties did Scotty in.