Scott Harrington

[pucci2001]

I think some are pumping up their hope for failure with this particular asset. Kapanen and the 1st rounder are far better assets than this middling defense prospect. I think the Leafs asked-for/took him because Hunter knows the player and likes the player's character and wants to give him a try in a new environment.

Harrington was a rock on the WJ team, he thinks the game so well just his footspeed needs work. I am a little sad we weren't able to pry away Maata in this deal though. Not sure what kind of adjustments would have had to be made but I am guessing Maata was a dealbreaker since they won't be able to afford a comparable dman to replace him for the season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's going to be a long rebuild if this is how we view deals for futures, haha.

It is worth noting isn't it? Shanahan probably didn't see this scenario happening as Burke probably didn't see us stinking after Kessel was acquired.

If anything, the pick should be our 3rd for Pitt's 1st in 2017. As remote as it is, if you are a good GM you have to protect yourself from The possibility of moving up only 1 spot when the deal was consumated.

If it happened, then basically all we got for Kessel was Harrington and Kapanen as I doubt anyone would say moving up 1 spot in the draft was worth it.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Re: the lottery protected pick

Should we not keep whatever pick the pens get as long as it doesn't WIN the lottery? Or is it just a lottery pick in general?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Re: the lottery protected pick

Should we not keep whatever pick the pens get as long as it doesn't WIN the lottery? Or is it just a lottery pick in general?

it's playoff protected
so basically, if they make the playoffs, yay for us
if they don't, boo for us.

Here are the conditions again for everyone:

Thanks to General Fanager:

Conditions:
*If Pittsburgh qualifies for the 2016 postseason, Toronto will receive 2016 PIT 1 and the Penguins will receive 2016 PIT 2.

therefore - it doesn't matter if the penguins win the cup. because they are getting their pick which will then be 60th overall.


*Should Pittsburgh miss the 2016 playoffs, Toronto will INSTEAD receive 2017 PIT 1; and Pittsburgh will receive 2017 TOR 2

So. this is where it could suck, because it could be a boo for us, and a YAY! for Pittsburgh because then it IS our pick.

*If the Penguins were to miss the postseason the next two years, Toronto would receive 2017 PIT 2 and Pittsburgh would not receive a draft pick.

and then that just stinks.

but then if they miss the playoffs twice in a row, after getting Kessel, then quite frankly the Penguins have bigger problems than us getting a 2nd round pick, don't they.

 

[MJ65]

It is worth noting isn't it? Shanahan probably didn't see this scenario happening as Burke probably didn't see us stinking after Kessel was acquired.

If anything, the pick should be our 3rd for Pitt's 1st in 2017. As remote as it is, if you are a good GM you have to protect yourself from The possibility of moving up only 1 spot when the deal was consumated.

If it happened, then basically all we got for Kessel was Harrington and Kapanen as I doubt anyone would say moving up 1 spot in the draft was worth it.

The chances of Pittsburgh's 1st round turning in to a lottery pick are very remote, why do we really have to be always negative and if it does happen then too bad (I guess we are the most unlucky team), and the chances of us winning the lottery with our own 1st rounder are much higher

 

[Guy Boucher]

If anything, the pick should be our 3rd for Pitt's 1st in 2017. As remote as it is, if you are a good GM you have to protect yourself from The possibility of moving up only 1 spot when the deal was consumated.

If it happened, then basically all we got for Kessel was Harrington and Kapanen as I doubt anyone would say moving up 1 spot in the draft was worth it.

Please explain to me how we would move up only 1 spot in the draft.

 

[TimeZone]

On the chance Pittsburg does not make the playoffs in 2016, their pick is lottery protected.

The pick will default to 2017. Thus the chance is of us moving up 1 sopt only from 31 to 30. If the Pens win the cup and we finish 30th in 16-17 season.

Thus when people said the 2nd for Pittsburg pick is the most valuable piece of the trade. I said hold on. No one can claim this is certain until it happens.

Right now, I view Harrington as the best part of the trade.

I honestly don't even understand what you're trying to say...

& Kapanen has a much higher ceiling than Harrington. He's the main piece.

 

[TimeZone]

Please explain to me how we would move up only 1 spot in the draft.

His post literally didn't make any sense. Glad i'm not the only one who doesn't understand how moving up only one slot is possible.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Please explain to me how we would move up only 1 spot in the draft.

I honestly don't even understand what you're trying to say...

& Kapanen has a much higher ceiling than Harrington. He's the main piece.

His post literally didn't make any sense. Glad i'm not the only one who doesn't understand how moving up only one slot is possible.

what he is saying that in 2017 (if the Penguins miss the playoffs in 2016)
we give them our 2nd, and we get their first.

so if perchance - we are dead last and the penguins win the cup.
we draft 30th, and they draft 31st.

we only moved up 1 spot in the draft. (with the pick).

 

[meefer]

Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
It's going to be a long rebuild if this is how we view deals for futures, haha.

Got news for you buddy, it's going to be a long rebuild regardless. Christ almighty, where do these yahoos come from. We are rebuilding, that takes time, why are there maroons thinking we can shortcut the program? I guess it takes all types. Carry on Drew75

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Please explain to me how we would move up only 1 spot in the draft.

I only explained this about 3 times in this thread. I'm seriously starting to wonder do people bother to look at the conditions of the pick part of this trade. Here you go and to others that missed it.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104855769&postcount=186

 

[diceman934]

who even cares if the pick is the 30th. Let Hunter and Hofford do their jobs, and let's hope we get a stud. And even if Harrington is a throw-in, I hope that he develops well, and shows that he was 100 percent the wrong player to throw in, because he'll be absolutely amazing for us.

That's interesting that you think he's better than Percy, dice (I'm lazy, and I don't want to go back into the thread), do you mind explaining why you think so?

Daisy: Harrington has a much better hockey IQ, he is a better defender and competes harder as well, he was used a shut down D man on Team Canada and made the team twice, that should say a lot....he also is a leader.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The chances of Pittsburgh's 1st round turning in to a lottery pick are very remote, why do we really have to be always negative and if it does happen then too bad (I guess we are the most unlucky team), and the chances of us winning the lottery with our own 1st rounder are much higher

I present the facts. Shanhan did not protect his interest in the pick exchange that Rutherford did. You view this as being negative. I view this as a complete Management oversight. It may still work out for the Leafs, Pitt makes the playoffs next year and loses in the 1st rd. But if they don't. And the 2017 scenario takes place. We just squandered an important part of the deal that Shanahan didn't protect the Leafs interests as Rutherford did for the Pens. Lack of experience at GM? You tell me. You only get one chance to trade an asset like Kessel.

I like Harrington yes, but that pick needs to be better than a possible move up of 31-30 or just a 2nd rd pick if Pens miss the playoffs next season.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Daisy: Harrington has a much better hockey IQ, he is a better defender and competes harder as well, he was used a shut down D man on Team Canada and made the team twice, that should say a lot....he also is a leader.

thanks, Dice that's good to know.

 

[Semantics]

I like Harrington yes, but that pick needs to be better than a possible move up of 31-30 or just a 2nd rd pick if Pens miss the playoffs next season.

The scenario where they miss the playoffs twice and we don't get a 1st back is actually the best, because we also get to keep their 2016 2nd. The two 2nds are more valuable than a mid-late 1st.

 

[keon]

I only explained this about 3 times in this thread. I'm seriously starting to wonder do people bother to look at the conditions of the pick part of this trade. Here you go and to others that missed it.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104855769&postcount=186

You have also missed a small aspect of this complicated trade conditions. If Pitt misses the playoffs in 2015/16 Toronto will retain Pitts 2016 #2 pick which will be Top 44.

Scenario #1

Pitts makes the 2016 Playoffs somewhere between Pick 15 - 30.
Toronto receives Pitts #1 Pick (15 - 30).
Pitts receives back their #2 Pick (45 - 60)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd Round Pick (likely 61 -70)

Scenario #2

Pitts misses the 2016 Playoffs but makes the 2017 Playoffs
Toronto retains the Pitts 2016 #2 Pick (31 - 44)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd rd Pick (likely 61 - 70)
Toronto receives Pitts #1 2017 Pick (15 - 30)
Pitts receives Toronto's #2 2017 Pick (likely 31 - 40)

This is a bad scenario because Toronto could possible only move from 31 - 30 but they would have retained a good Pitts 2016 Rd #2 Pick (31 - 44). *Note the only way that Toronto's #2 Pick could be 31 would be if our #1 Pick was 1st overall which would be grrrrreat!!!!

Scenario #3
Pitts misses the 2016 and 2017
Kessel is obviously less useful than popsicles in Inuvik.
Toronto has already retained Pitts #2 Pick in 2016 and gets Pitts #2 Pick in 2017 (31 - 44 overall) and has also benefited from NJ's #3 pick in 2016.

Sorry that I nit-picked

 

[Daisy Jane]

You have also missed a small aspect of this complicated trade conditions. If Pitt misses the playoffs in 2015/16 Toronto will retain Pitts 2016 #2 pick which will be Top 44.

Scenario #3
Pitts misses the 2016 and 2017
Kessel is obviously less useful than popsicles in Inuvik.
Toronto has already retained Pitts #2 Pick in 2016 and gets Pitts #2 Pick in 2017 and has also benefited from NJ's #3 pick in 2016.

Sorry that I nit-picked

I like you.

also:

and ultimately - with all your scenarios, while the situation is bad: trust Hunter to find talent with the picks he has to try to find a stud - and we still have assets to gain us more picks. it is, as it is.

and Scott Harrington will be a good player for us.

 

[burpsalot]

it's playoff protected
so basically, if they make the playoffs, yay for us
if they don't, boo for us.

Here are the conditions again for everyone:

Thanks to General Fanager:

Conditions:
*If Pittsburgh qualifies for the 2016 postseason, Toronto will receive 2016 PIT 1 and the Penguins will receive 2016 PIT 2.

therefore - it doesn't matter if the penguins win the cup. because they are getting their pick which will then be 60th overall.


*Should Pittsburgh miss the 2016 playoffs, Toronto will INSTEAD receive 2017 PIT 1; and Pittsburgh will receive 2017 TOR 2

So. this is where it could suck, because it could be a boo for us, and a YAY! for Pittsburgh because then it IS our pick.

*If the Penguins were to miss the postseason the next two years, Toronto would receive 2017 PIT 2 and Pittsburgh would not receive a draft pick.

and then that just stinks.

but then if they miss the playoffs twice in a row, after getting Kessel, then quite frankly the Penguins have bigger problems than us getting a 2nd round pick, don't they.

The reasoning for the condition is actually quite understandable.

Leafs while shopping Kessel around were promoting him as a top goalscorer that will being your team to the promised land. But other GM's point to his putrid last 4 months & his quitting mentality. They say he is done, Shanahan says he's not. If Kessel plays next year like he did for the second half of last season, he has no value & is a huge contract that can't be moved.

So, they created a kind of performance condition to the 1st & 2nd draft pick exchange. If things go as expected & they make the playoffs their 1st to us, their 2nd back to them. If Kessel doesn't bring them to the promised land next year, as has been sold, but they make it in 2017 1st to us our 2nd to them. If Kessel is as useless as **** on a bull, we sold Pitts damaged goods & they don't make the playoffs in 2016 or 2017, then we get their 2nd in 2017 & we don't give them anything.

It, of course, would have been better to have the exchange of 1st & (their returning) 2nd with no conditions but teams aren't 100% confident that Kessel isn't broken. So we get this "team performance" condition.

It's not really new, for years players have had performance bonus' put in their contracts based on the teams success. Team makes playoffs, player gets $100,000 bonus added onto contract plus each subsequent year. Win Stanley Cup, $500,000 bonus added & in each subsequent year.

 

[burpsalot]

I present the facts. Shanhan did not protect his interest in the pick exchange that Rutherford did. You view this as being negative. I view this as a complete Management oversight. It may still work out for the Leafs, Pitt makes the playoffs next year and loses in the 1st rd. But if they don't. And the 2017 scenario takes place. We just squandered an important part of the deal that Shanahan didn't protect the Leafs interests as Rutherford did for the Pens. Lack of experience at GM? You tell me. You only get one chance to trade an asset like Kessel.

I like Harrington yes, but that pick needs to be better than a possible move up of 31-30 or just a 2nd rd pick if Pens miss the playoffs next season.

An oversight or part of the negotiated contract to help quell a teams legitimate concern that Kessel helps his team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The reasoning for the condition is actually quite understandable.

Leafs while shopping Kessel around were promoting him as a top goalscorer that will being your team to the promised land. But other GM's point to his putrid last 4 months & his quitting mentality. They say he is done, Shanahan says he's not. If Kessel plays next year like he did for the second half of last season, he has no value & is a huge contract that can't be moved.

So, they created a kind of performance condition to the 1st & 2nd draft pick exchange. If things go as expected & they make the playoffs their 1st to us, their 2nd back to them. If Kessel doesn't bring them to the promised land next year, as has been sold, but they make it in 2017 1st to us our 2nd to them. If Kessel is as useless as **** on a bull, we sold Pitts damaged goods & they don't make the playoffs in 2016 or 2017, then we get their 2nd in 2017 & we don't give them anything.

It, of course, would have been better to have the exchange of 1st & (their returning) 2nd with no conditions but teams aren't 100% confident that Kessel isn't broken. So we get this "team performance" condition.

It's not really new, for years players have had performance bonus' put in their contracts based on the teams success. Team makes playoffs, player gets $100,000 bonus added onto contract plus each subsequent year. Win Stanley Cup, $500,000 bonus added & in each subsequent year.

Richards has that little doohickey in his contract too.
he gets like a big bunch more money every round the Red Wings hit this year.
actually. the pick we got for Ollie Jokeinin was based on that too.(which they didn't so we get a lower pick).

that's actually a good point though

An oversight or part of the negotiated contract to help quell a teams legitimate concern that Kessel helps his team.

elite talent or not - because the reasons why he was being traded was never due to his offensive output.

 

[keon]

Pitts has 16 players signed and only $5.8 million to sign 7 more players and a weak looking defense. It shall be interesting.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Pitts has 16 players signed and only $5.8 million to sign 7 more players and a weak looking defense. It shall be interesting.

they shall score themselves to a playoff spot

 

[080]

Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
It's going to be a long rebuild if this is how we view deals for futures, haha.

Got news for you buddy, it's going to be a long rebuild regardless. Christ almighty, where do these yahoos come from. We are rebuilding, that takes time, why are there maroons thinking we can shortcut the program? I guess it takes all types. Carry on Drew75

Seriously -- the whole point of dealing Kessel was so we could start to rebuild. You don't deal him and then say 'okay, rebuild compete -- he's gone and we got 10 superstars for him'.

It doesn't matter how long it takes now because we don't have any good players that are getting too old. Our best players are in their mid-20s -- and none of them are very good anyway. Our best player is only 20; and our top prospects who will likely be better than our current roster players are 18/19.

I honestly don't care how long it takes now. I'm just happy to watch young players play and hopefully see a team that competes every night -- instead of the half-assed garbage we've watched for the last 6 Kessel-filled years.

 

[Guy Boucher]

I only explained this about 3 times in this thread. I'm seriously starting to wonder do people bother to look at the conditions of the pick part of this trade. Here you go and to others that missed it.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104855769&postcount=186

So you're arguing that Pittsburgh will miss the playoffs this year and then win the Stanley Cup the year after?

 

[Semantics]

Pitts has 16 players signed and only $5.8 million to sign 7 more players and a weak looking defense. It shall be interesting.

I'm surprised their fans aren't more worried about this. They always go on about how they've drafted so many D and are so deep on D prospects, but Pouliot and Harrington were really their only highly rated ones. Their other D prospects all seem to be Granberg or Loov types, players who aren't quite there yet and may never be top 4.

They've lost Martin, Ehrhoff, and massively downgraded on Despres. Those are good players who logged 182 games for them last year. Sure they're going to get up to 110 additional games out of Maatta and Pouliot this year, but I wouldn't count on Pouliot to fill the shoes of any of those three they lost as a rookie.

Kessel is a huge upgrade to their forward unit but I think they're worse on D even if they're 100% healthy. I think they make the playoffs, but as a bottom four seed in the conference and another early playoff exit. Which is fine by me.