Scott Harrington

[tooncesmeow]

Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
It's going to be a long rebuild if this is how we view deals for futures, haha.

Got news for you buddy, it's going to be a long rebuild regardless. Christ almighty, where do these yahoos come from. We are rebuilding, that takes time, why are there maroons thinking we can shortcut the program? I guess it takes all types. Carry on Drew75

What do you consider a long rebuild? We already have Nylander, Marner and Rielly, not counting any of the other quality prospects we have or the main roster players who are still very young and quite capable.

We're probably going to sit on the outside of the playoffs for 2 more seasons but I don't think this is going to end up as a 5 year rebuild.

 

[ProjectBluePuck]

What do you consider a long rebuild? We already have Nylander, Marner and Rielly, not counting any of the other quality prospects we have or the main roster players who are still very young and quite capable.

We're probably going to sit on the outside of the playoffs for 2 more seasons but I don't think this is going to end up as a 5 year rebuild.

I would have to agree with you. Maybe even less because of the Babcock factor.

 

[GBLeaf]

Depends what the time frame consists of? 5yrs of drafting, or 5 years til we are hoping to be in the play-offs? IMO the best move long term is for us to be picking top 5 2016 and top 10 2017. Then look to be competitive.

Stocking up on a wide range of talent doesn't mean they all have to be on the roster long term, we can then look to shift talent for more picks down the line or players than help in the short term.

Asset management is hugely important.

 

[Leafsman]

You have also missed a small aspect of this complicated trade conditions. If Pitt misses the playoffs in 2015/16 Toronto will retain Pitts 2016 #2 pick which will be Top 44.

Scenario #1

Pitts makes the 2016 Playoffs somewhere between Pick 15 - 30.
Toronto receives Pitts #1 Pick (15 - 30).
Pitts receives back their #2 Pick (45 - 60)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd Round Pick (likely 61 -70)

Scenario #2

Pitts misses the 2016 Playoffs but makes the 2017 Playoffs
Toronto retains the Pitts 2016 #2 Pick (31 - 44)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd rd Pick (likely 61 - 70)
Toronto receives Pitts #1 2017 Pick (15 - 30)
Pitts receives Toronto's #2 2017 Pick (likely 31 - 40)

This is a bad scenario because Toronto could possible only move from 31 - 30 but they would have retained a good Pitts 2016 Rd #2 Pick (31 - 44). *Note the only way that Toronto's #2 Pick could be 31 would be if our #1 Pick was 1st overall which would be grrrrreat!!!!

Scenario #3
Pitts misses the 2016 and 2017
Kessel is obviously less useful than popsicles in Inuvik.
Toronto has already retained Pitts #2 Pick in 2016 and gets Pitts #2 Pick in 2017 (31 - 44 overall) and has also benefited from NJ's #3 pick in 2016.

Sorry that I nit-picked

Wow!! This is a pretty good Sunday morning brain teaser.

Just to clarify as some people are getting a little uppity that we may only move one position.

For that to happen.

Pittsburgh would have to not make the playoffs this year but win the Stanley Cup next year. Is that right?

Edit: Just to add, as you pointed out. Toronto would be picking 1 and 30, instead of 1 and 31? How terrible!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You have also missed a small aspect of this complicated trade conditions. If Pitt misses the playoffs in 2015/16 Toronto will retain Pitts 2016 #2 pick which will be Top 44.

Scenario #1

Pitts makes the 2016 Playoffs somewhere between Pick 15 - 30.
Toronto receives Pitts #1 Pick (15 - 30).
Pitts receives back their #2 Pick (45 - 60)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd Round Pick (likely 61 -70)

Scenario #2

Pitts misses the 2016 Playoffs but makes the 2017 Playoffs
Toronto retains the Pitts 2016 #2 Pick (31 - 44)
Toronto receives NJ 3rd rd Pick (likely 61 - 70)
Toronto receives Pitts #1 2017 Pick (15 - 30)
Pitts receives Toronto's #2 2017 Pick (likely 31 - 40)

This is a bad scenario because Toronto could possible only move from 31 - 30 but they would have retained a good Pitts 2016 Rd #2 Pick (31 - 44). *Note the only way that Toronto's #2 Pick could be 31 would be if our #1 Pick was 1st overall which would be grrrrreat!!!!

Scenario #3
Pitts misses the 2016 and 2017
Kessel is obviously less useful than popsicles in Inuvik.
Toronto has already retained Pitts #2 Pick in 2016 and gets Pitts #2 Pick in 2017 (31 - 44 overall) and has also benefited from NJ's #3 pick in 2016.

Sorry that I nit-picked

Lots of what ifs here. Will say this, the best case scenario for the Leafs is for the Pens to make the playoffs this upcoming season.

For 2017 the best case scenario is for them to sneak in as the last seed and lose in the first rd, and for us to win the Stanley cup.

We would move up from 60 to 15. A total of 45 spots. Obcourse if we finish last and they win the cup it would be only be a move from 31 to 30 scenario.

 

[General Borschevsky]

Lots of what ifs here. Will say this, the best case scenario for the Leafs is for the Pens to make the playoffs this upcoming season. For them to sneak in as the last seed and lose in the first rd, and for us to win the Stanley cup.

We would move up from 30 to 15. A total of 15 spots. This is the Best possible scenario.

If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, don't we move up 30 spots no matter where either team finishes?

 

[pspot]

The return on kessel wasn't going to make or break the rebuild it was/is the beginning of the rebuild

This will not be one singular move or short cut like before....i hope

 

[Guy Boucher]

If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, don't we move up 30 spots no matter where either team finishes?

Yes, if Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, we will move up precisely 30 spots. Not more or less.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, don't we move up 30 spots no matter where either team finishes?

Corrected. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104898759&postcount=230

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The scenario where they miss the playoffs twice and we don't get a 1st back is actually the best, because we also get to keep their 2016 2nd. The two 2nds are more valuable than a mid-late 1st.

I doubt this, otherwise, Shanahan would have just asked for an Unconditional 2nd in 2017.

 

[Leafsman]

Obcourse if we finish last and they win the cup it would be only be a move from 31 to 30 scenario.

that would be a wild scenario though!!

As I said woudl happen if somehow we managed to knock Pittsburgh out of 8th seed this season. There would be a mass Leaf nation pooping of pants while having strokes and seizures due to intense confusion. We lost the pic but make the playoffs!!

Imagine Pittsburgh loses this season, but somehow manages to win the Stanley Cup next season. While we somehow manage to pick first overall! BIPOLAR nation would ****!

 

[TimeZone]

what he is saying that in 2017 (if the Penguins miss the playoffs in 2016)
we give them our 2nd, and we get their first.

so if perchance - we are dead last and the penguins win the cup.
we draft 30th, and they draft 31st.

we only moved up 1 spot in the draft. (with the pick).

Oh come the **** on...the Penguins are all but guaranteed to be a high seeded playoff team this season. I'm not a fan of the condition myself but lets keep things realistic.

 

[likeabosski]

Oh come the **** on...the Penguins are all but guaranteed to be a high seeded playoff team this season. I'm not a fan of the condition myself but lets keep things realistic.

I'm not so sure about that now the more that I look at the situation in Pittsburgh.

The Penguins have 45% ($32.25m) of their max cap ($71.1m) tied up in Crosby ($8.7m), Malkin ($9.5m), Letang ($7.25m) and Kessel ($6.8m). That leaves 55% of their cap ($38.85m) for 18-19 players... No more than $2.16m per player.

Has there ever been an NHL team in recent history that either finished high in the standings or made it to the Stanley Cup semi-finals with so much of their cap allotted to their top 4 highest paid players?

The Chicago Blackhawks are now in a similar funk. Toews ($10.5m), Kane ($10.5m), Crawford ($6m), Sharp ($5.9m). $32.9/$71.1m. 46% of cap going to 4 players. If Sharp gets dealt, replace him with Seabrook ($5.8m) and it's still 46%. The majority of Chicago's cap ($38.7m/$71.1m), 54%, goes to 5 players (Toews, Kane, Crawford, Sharp, Seabrook). Duncan Keith is not far behind if they deal Sharp... They have to fill out the remaining 17-18 players of their roster with 46%...

Technically you could have a roster of as little as 20 players. But the emergency replacement player rule in the CBA doesn't afford you with much flexibility. Sometimes if you're faced with injuries, you can't call up an emergency replacement right away. It's good to have 2-3 players on standby in your roster who can step in to fill-in as needed.

 

[TimeZone]

I'm not so sure about that now the more that I look at the situation in Pittsburgh.

The Penguins have 45% ($32.25m) of their max cap ($71.1m) tied up in Crosby ($8.7m), Malkin ($9.5m), Letang ($7.25m) and Kessel ($6.8m). That leaves 55% of their cap ($38.85m) for 18-19 players... No more than $2.16m per player.

Has there ever been an NHL team in recent history that either finished high in the standings or made it to the Stanley Cup semi-finals with so much of their cap allotted to their top 4 highest paid players?

The Chicago Blackhawks are now in a similar funk. Toews ($10.5m), Kane ($10.5m), Crawford ($6m), Sharp ($5.9m). $32.9/$71.1m. 46% of cap going to 4 players. If Sharp gets dealt, replace him with Seabrook ($5.8m) and it's still 46%. The majority of Chicago's cap ($38.7m/$71.1m), 54%, goes to 5 players (Toews, Kane, Crawford, Sharp, Seabrook). Duncan Keith is not far behind if they deal Sharp... They have to fill out the remaining 17-18 players of their roster with 46%...

Technically you could have a roster of as little as 20 players. But the emergency replacement player rule in the CBA doesn't afford you with much flexibility. Sometimes if you're faced with injuries, you can't call up an emergency replacement right away. It's good to have 2-3 players on standby in your roster who can step in to fill-in as needed.

The East is weak. We don't need them to make it to the finals but the teams offense alone should carry them into the playoffs with some comfort room. Hopefully they falter early and we get a pick around 20.

 

[Trapper]

Oh come the **** on...the Penguins are all but guaranteed to be a high seeded playoff team this season. I'm not a fan of the condition myself but lets keep things realistic.

Best scenario is the Pens are a wild card team: Washington/NYI/NYR/Columbus hold the 1-2-3 spot. Then as an East wild card team, their record is worse than most of the 8 teams from the West playoffs. Then a 1st round exit.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The hope for Harrington this fall, is to challenge for a NHL job at training camp. Heard that skating is the challenge for him.

If he is not close, then it will be a disappointment. He's in the same boat as Percy. Both these guys need to be knocking on the door soon.

2011 1st or 2nd rd picks are not 18 or 19 year olds. They have pro experience and should be near NHL ready. If not, I would worry from a prospects viewpoint if they can be impactful NHL'ers.

 

[Eb]

Corrected. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104898759&postcount=230

No he was correct. Was just looking at it in a different way.

We essentially trade Pitts their 2016 second back for their 2016 first. Therefore, we move precisely 30 spots up.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No he was correct. Was just looking at it in a different way.

We essentially trade Pitts their 2016 second back for their 2016 first. Therefore, we move precisely 30 spots up.

I'd like to end this as it is getting repetitive. If Pittsburg makes the playoffs this upcoming 2016 season. As they should. If they don't there is no guarantee in 2017, and 2018 what happens with that conditional pick.

 

[Eb]

I'd like to end this as it is getting repetitive. If Pittsburg makes the playoffs this upcoming 2016 season. As they should. If they don't there is no guarantee in 2017, and 2018 what happens with that conditional pick.

Originally Posted by grabo84
If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, don't we move up 30 spots no matter where either team finishes?

Did you miss the part where he said "If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year"?

I posted it here for you to view again in case you missed. Only one sounding repetitive is you. We all know the condition on the pick is now. The OP was correct in what he said.

 

[tooncesmeow]

I'm not so sure about that now the more that I look at the situation in Pittsburgh.

The Penguins have 45% ($32.25m) of their max cap ($71.1m) tied up in Crosby ($8.7m), Malkin ($9.5m), Letang ($7.25m) and Kessel ($6.8m). That leaves 55% of their cap ($38.85m) for 18-19 players... No more than $2.16m per player.

Has there ever been an NHL team in recent history that either finished high in the standings or made it to the Stanley Cup semi-finals with so much of their cap allotted to their top 4 highest paid players?

The Chicago Blackhawks are now in a similar funk. Toews ($10.5m), Kane ($10.5m), Crawford ($6m), Sharp ($5.9m). $32.9/$71.1m. 46% of cap going to 4 players. If Sharp gets dealt, replace him with Seabrook ($5.8m) and it's still 46%. The majority of Chicago's cap ($38.7m/$71.1m), 54%, goes to 5 players (Toews, Kane, Crawford, Sharp, Seabrook). Duncan Keith is not far behind if they deal Sharp... They have to fill out the remaining 17-18 players of their roster with 46%...

Technically you could have a roster of as little as 20 players. But the emergency replacement player rule in the CBA doesn't afford you with much flexibility. Sometimes if you're faced with injuries, you can't call up an emergency replacement right away. It's good to have 2-3 players on standby in your roster who can step in to fill-in as needed.

The Penguins made the playoffs as the 2nd most injured tema in the league last year. Only Columbus had more injuries then the Pens, and the Pens had it on key players. Lets not be stupid, the Penguins are making the playoffs. It might not be as a division leader but they definitely have what it takes to be one of 8 teams in the East to qualify.

This pick is all but guaranteed.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Originally Posted by grabo84
If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year, don't we move up 30 spots no matter where either team finishes?

Did you miss the part where he said "If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs this year"?

I posted it here for you to view again in case you missed. Only one sounding repetitive is you. We all know the condition on the pick is now. The OP was correct in what he said.

Was already corrected. BTW I was the one that posted the conditions of the pick in this thread. I know very well what they are.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104899647&postcount=234

 

[dubplatepressure]

Try to think of this deal not now but in 4 years when Kessel's PPG drops to around .5 and he's getting 8 large for another 3 years.

 

[Eb]

Was already corrected. BTW I was the one that posted the conditions of the pick in this thread. I know very well what they are.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104899647&postcount=234

I do not think you are following unfortunately.

Take a deep breath - reread the OP's post and then reread my post trying to explain what he meant (post #242)

He did not need to be corrected. He was correct in what he said.

 

[Bullseye]

This argument may be better served on the Phil Kessel Trade part 1V thread - this is the Harrington thread.

 

[Eb]

This argument may be better served on the Phil Kessel Trade part 1V thread - this is the Harrington thread.

Not an argument. Just trying to clarify something mentioned earlier. But yes, probably best suited in another thread.