Schiefele Vs. Tavares

[NextYear67]

JT smashes MS

 

[Peggy]

You do realize that the $15.9 million is part of his bonus and has no effect on the Leafs salary cap.

John Tavares - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

oh well. I think his point still stands

6mil scheifele >> 11 million tavares

 

[Peggy]

Every Leaf fan should come to expect this kind of hypocrisy, Tavares is a 2 time Hart Finalist, previously ranking well above Schiefele when he was an Islander, suddenly he becomes a Leaf and he's now considered a lesser player than Schiefele, lmfao. Comedic gold really.

because scheifele's performance as of late has nothing to do with it
it's only because of he's a leaf

quit filling your head with that shit and leave some room for other possibilities

scheifele was a beast in the playoffs
you don't think that's going to raise his stocks
people are starting to acknowledge how good scheifele has been
because he's been elite

 

[MardyBum]

Scheif pretty easily.

Younger, better 5v5 producer, and one of the best contracts in the league.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

[mod]

Why are you comparing polls that were strictly based off of how good they were, not factoring in anything else (age/contract) and pretending that HF is turning against Tavares because he is a Leaf? [mod] When you have a poll of 'Who would you rather have?', people are going to factor in contracts/age, which completely changes the question. It's really really simple and you guys are just repetitively dunking on yourselves.

Straight performance wise, it's close, and I have no problem with someone taking either player. Factor in age and contract and it is a landslide for Scheif.

 

[Romang67]

Every Leaf fan should come to expect this kind of hypocrisy, Tavares is a 2 time Hart Finalist, previously ranking well above Schiefele when he was an Islander, suddenly he becomes a Leaf and he's now considered a lesser player than Schiefele, lmfao. Comedic gold really.

...

Get out of here with this victim mentality bull****. It’s been proven wrong time and time again.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/schiefele-vs-tavares-who-would-you-rather-have-now.2498043/

This poll, exactly one month ago, has Tavares with 34.8% of the vote. This thread, from today, has 33.7% of the vote. While the vote went down ever so slightly for Tavares, the difference is completely negligible and not significant at all. It’s also important to consider that his contract is higher than it was expected to be when that poll was made a month ago which probably more than makes up for the negligible 1.1% difference.

If there was really some anti-Leafs bias on this website that caused Maple Leafs players to get crushed in polls, Tavares wouldn’t be losing at nearly the exact same rate at which he already lost to Schiefele. This massive anti-Leafs bias that you all cry about would certainly cause Schiefele to gain more than a 1.1% difference between the old poll and this one.

Of course, we also have those Marleau HOF polls which showed his “yes, Patrick Marleau is a HOFer” vote rate doubling as soon as he signed with Toronto.

Well that's awkward.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Factor in age and contract and it is a landslide for Scheif.

Despite the contract Schefifele is playing under if he's better than Tavares as others seem to be saying, shouldn't he be making a lot more money than Tavares? You need to remember he signed that contract when he was an RFA and Tavares signed his as a UFA.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Despite the contract Schefifele is playing under if he's better than Tavares as others seem to be saying, shouldn't he be making a lot more money than Tavares? You need to remember he signed that contract when he was an RFA and Tavares signed his as a UFA.

You literally answered your own question in this post. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

In 7 years when Scheif contract is up, yes he will likely make more than Tavares, I'll worry about that then.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You literally answered your own question in this post. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

In 7 years when Scheif contract is up, yes he will likely make more than Tavares, I'll worry about that then.

Schefifele has also had one amazing season when he scored 30+ goals and got 82 points in the 2016-2017 season.

Tavares had had three seasons of 30+ goals and two seasons of 80+ points.

Based on that alone Tavares has already been more proven in his career.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Schefifele has also had one amazing season when he scored 30+ goals and got 82 points in the 2016-2017 season.

Tavares had had three seasons of 30+ goals and two seasons of 80+ points.

Based on that alone Tavares has already been more proven in his career.

You are now just creating arguments.

Yes, Tavares has accomplished more in his career than Scheifele, he came into the league as a more polished player and is older than Scheifele. That doesn't really factor into who I take right now.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Schefifele has also had one amazing season when he scored 30+ goals and got 82 points in the 2016-2017 season.

Tavares had had three seasons of 30+ goals and two seasons of 80+ points.

Based on that alone Tavares has already been more proven in his career.

What does career accomplishment have to do with the OP poll question? It's asking who you'd rather have right now, not who has had a better career up to this point.

I mean, Jagr's had a better career than both of them combined. Would you rather have Jagr on your team *right now* over either of Tavares or Scheifele?

 

[Critical13]

I would take Scheif, especially with contracts.

We got Tavares for just cap space though, so that doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

 

[libertarian]

Despite the contract Schefifele is playing under if he's better than Tavares as others seem to be saying, shouldn't he be making a lot more money than Tavares? You need to remember he signed that contract when he was an RFA and Tavares signed his as a UFA.

Agree with this. Tavares as a FA got market value and from what I read he took a discount to play in TO instead of SJ.

The argument that some are making is Scheifele's value per point generated is so much higher then Tarvares.

Example:
Tavares scores 90 points next season.
Scheifele scores 80 points next season.
Tarvares had the better season but Scheifele is still the better value.
$11,000,000 / 90 points = $122,222.22 per Tavares points.
$6,125,000 / 80 points = $76,562.5 per Scheifele points.

In this scenario the Jets have aprox $45,000 per point generated to spend on other players.

If Scheifele matches are produces more then Tavares the amount only increases.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What does career accomplishment have to do with the OP poll question? It's asking who you'd rather have right now, not who has had a better career up to this point.

I mean, Jagr's had a better career than both of them combined. Would you rather have Jagr on your team *right now* over either of Tavares or Scheifele?

I think one great season by Schiefele is not enough to say he's better than Tavares and why anyone other than Jets fans would choose him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Agree with this. Tavares as a FA got market value and from what I read he took a discount to play in TO instead of SJ.

It was reported that Tavares turned down a 7 year $91 million contract with a $13 million AAV from San Jose.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think one great season by Schiefele is not enough to say he's better than Tavares and why anyone other than Jets fans would choose him.

One? He was also a point per game this season. And three seasons ago, he had 61 points in 71 games. Tavares, over that same time frame, had 70 points, 66 points, and 84 points. Only his 84 points would be what I'd consider a "great season".

Over the past three seasons, he's been more productive (points per game) than Tavares has. The only way Tavares has the edge is if you start going back 4+ seasons to when Scheifele was just starting out.

 

[4thline]

Gimme Tavares for Reg Season, Tournament, and Playoff Modes
Scheifele for GM Mode

 

[Peggy]

Schefifele has also had one amazing season when he scored 30+ goals and got 82 points in the 2016-2017 season.

Tavares had had three seasons of 30+ goals and two seasons of 80+ points.

Based on that alone Tavares has already been more proven in his career.

2 good amazing seasons

I'd say leading your team to a conference finals is quite impressive
yes. playoffs is a team accomplishment, but that run ended with him having 14 goals and 20 points in 17 games

it's probably the most impressive thing he has done in his career so far. is by proving he can continue to produce in the playoffs against the best teams in the league

 

[Eat The Rich]

I'm not expecting a 30 point increase from Tavares, but anyone who thinks quality of linemates between these two doesn't play a factor is being completely disingenuous.

One? He was also a point per game this season. And three seasons ago, he had 61 points in 71 games. Tavares, over that same time frame, had 70 points, 66 points, and 84 points. Only his 84 points would be what I'd consider a "great season".

Interesting that his stats spiked up once his regular linemates switched from Drew Stafford level players to Nik Ehlers and Patrik Laine level players. Guess we'll see what happens when Tavares plays with comparable talent.

 

[libertarian]

It was reported that Tavares turned down a 7 year $91 million contract with a $13 million AAV from San Jose.

I read the same thing you did.

What Jets fans need to realise if Scheifele was extending his contract today he would be a $10M+ player. Jets were lucky to sign him long term before he broke out as a PPG player. If the Jets do win a SC in the next couple of years it can't be understated how much Scheifele's contract meant for the Jets simply because the Scheifele contract allowed them to hold onto 1 good top six player or 2 or 3 good bottom six depth players.

All that said if they don't win a cup then they waisted a golden opportunity.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm not expecting a 30 point increase from Tavares, but anyone who thinks quality of linemates between these two doesn't play a factor is being completely disingenuous.

Interesting that his stats spiked up once his regular linemates switched from Drew Stafford level players to Nik Ehlers and Patrik Laine level players. Guess we'll see what happens when Tavares plays with comparable talent.

So we're back to the "Tavares played with AHL scrubs" thing again? If Bailey and Lee still produce top line production this year, will this narrative finally stop?

 

[Eat The Rich]

So we're back to the "Tavares played with AHL scrubs" thing again? If Bailey and Lee still produce top line production this year, will this narrative finally stop?

Trust me, there are a TON of narratives that are overplayed and need to die, add this one to the pile.

Fact remains, quality of linemates does impact a player's performance. Does Patrick Kane win the Art Ross without Panarin on his wing? Interesting his best seasons statistically came in those two seasons. Once Panarin gets traded away he's back to a sub-80 point player. I'm not calling Tavares' Islanders linemates AHL scrubs, but they aren't as talented as what he's walking in to.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Trust me, there are a TON of narratives that are overplayed and need to die, add this one to the pile.

Fact remains, quality of linemates does impact a player's performance. Does Patrick Kane win the Art Ross without Panarin on his wing? Interesting his best seasons statistically came in those two seasons. Once Panarin gets traded away he's back to a sub-80 point player. I'm not calling Tavares' Islanders linemates AHL scrubs, but they aren't as talented as what he's walking in to.

Or maybe Patrick Kane had a career year? He scored 88 points a few years back prior to Panarin's arrival. The only "outlier" he had was that 106 point season, which could very well have simply been one of those "everything goes right for him" type seasons.

And yes, linemates have an impact. But not to the degree Leaf fans seem to think they'll have with Tavares. Crosby's played with below average scorers practically his entire career. He's still managed multiple 100 point seasons. But that doesn't mean if he played with a star linemate all those years, he'd have been scoring 120 points every year.

Superior linemates could boost totals by maybe 6 to 8 points, tops. And that's assuming chemistry. We saw from Kessel going to Pittsburgh that he didn't exactly boost Sid or Geno's totals at all. But I've seen Leaf fans talking about potential Art Ross wins for Tavares and how he'll be a 100+ point guy this year because of his new linemates.

The guys who see the biggest boost with linemates is the LESSER guys. The stars don't see a big bump. Geno Malkin's totals didn't change much from Neal to Hagelin. Meanwhile, James Neal went from an 80 point guy with Malkin to a 45-50 point guy in Nashville/Vegas.

 

[Eat The Rich]

The guys who see the biggest boost with linemates is the LESSER guys. The stars don't see a big bump. Geno Malkin's totals didn't change much from Neal to Hagelin. Meanwhile, James Neal went from an 80 point guy with Malkin to a 45-50 point guy in Nashville/Vegas.

So like Mark Scheifele, a LESSER guy, going from playing with Drew Stafford and Michael Frolik to playing with Patrik Laine and Nik Ehlers?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So like Mark Scheifele going from playing with Drew Stafford and Michael Frolik to playing with Patrik Laine and Nik Ehlers?

You have to factor in ice time and usage, too. Scheifele also went from 16 minutes a night as a 2/3 center his first 2 or 3 years in his career, to being given 20 minutes a night as his team's #1 center the past two years.

How a player is used is also going to impact his stats. Look at the Sedins. Early in their careers, they were 40-50 point guys because they were used on the 2nd and 3rd line. When they finally got top line/top PP usage, they blossomed and became point per game players.