ND is a great place , if you can afford it ! not saying its a better place to play than the rest of the province. And as for saskatoon starting a AAA school , that will never happen , but I can see someone trying to start a AAA team that kids can travel in for. Take the best kids that will commit and practice twice a week and play tournaments . Possible ?
Saskatchewan Minor Hockey Thread
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The price has gotten that high out there! Oh boy how times have changed. Strengthens my position even further. For 25K your kid could skip a winter year completely and have a pro strength/conditioning coach and a power skating instructor.... One on one for 6 months at that cost.
A province wide true AAA team based out of Saskatoon with two practices/week? No way. At bantam the AAA teams we are referring to are on the ice a lot more than that. True AAA would not have majority of kids from Saskatoon on it (sorry if I bruise anyone's ego). You would not be successful at Bantam AAA tournaments with two practices a week. So there's no way the top kids in the province could commit to that. Some would be driving 3 hours + round trip for practices.
For those parents who drive thier kid an hour and a half three times a week plus games, plus hotels plus team costs(bus etc). If they cannot car pool. Its not far off that amount. And its not 25k. There are bursuries and scholarships out there for your son/daughter to get. Do the math and it is not far off from what you would spend with your regular AA Team. Some people do not have the luxury of living in the cities where travel to parctice is just down the street. At the end of the day the actual cost is not that far out AND you get a strength coach, power skating instruction to boot. I know this first hand!
Is every player getting these bursaries? Just curious. How much money is available? I would like to pass this information on then to parents interested in this option. Much appreciated if you could provide some numbers. Also is power skating specific to the program? Meaning are practices COMPLETELY dedicated to power skating, edge work and agility. Or entire practices dedicated to shooting, stick handling. Or 100% dedicated to defence men skating and concepts? The answer is likely no and this is why my preference and advice to parents is invest in hockey school.
What I am saying is it is a fantastic program if that's where parents choose to send their kid at 14 years of age OR spend a fraction of the cost at summer power skating.... Then make an impression at Sask First.... Then play AAA midget... Not every elite player who plays SMAAAHL played for ND or the like. At AAA midget you're forking over generally $10K. At some point if your kid wants to play, you've gotta pay somewhere....
If you want to pursue the costs and etc just go on to ND web site and it clearly states what the process is. There are different amounts available for different situations.
It's 22.5K a year plus up to 5k more for bantam hockey... So the 25K quoted earlier is correct. The financial assistance is on a NEED basis. The committee clearly has final say, therefore not everyone gets the assistance. The bursaries are not re-payable and there is some requirement to seek corporate/private sponsors. Bottom line is it costs a ton of money. Period. If you wish to spend it, your choice... I know student athletes with immaculate grades, high honor roll, top 3-5 % of their age scholastically who attend hometown high schools too where no one pays anything more than regular school fees. So, I guess I personally would have had a hard time coughing up that much cash when the same results can be obtained right at home and playing AA bantam. Not to mention the same kids either have jobs or work the family farm... You give me a hard working rural kid with sound scholastic ability and some good hockey talent, there's a kid you can work with... Sometimes not so much with a player who perhaps is more privileged. Those that go to ND and the like who do require assistance, good for them and I would wish them all the best in study and sport and good on the parent(s) for sacrificing for their child.
Not all families can afford to send thier kid to ND. But some families make sacrifices so he or she can go. It is not about who has the most money that can send thier child there. It is about families who want the best for thier child that will not get it where they are living now. And that is right from the type of schooling they are getting now and the coaching etc also. There is a point in a players/persons life that they have to move on to the next level. Whether it is hockey, education or whatever they are pursuing. Some of these rural kids you are talking about do indeed have part time jobs or help out on the family farm. They are doing this so they can go to prep schools or whatever road they want to take. It seems to get lodged in people minds that sending your kid to POE,ND or wherever means that you have a never ending money pit. This is not always the case. It is a sacrifice the whole family makes in order for the athlete/student to go to these places. Each family has thier own reasons as to why they want to go this route. And alot of the times it is things that they can no longer get where they are living now(rural Sask).
Western elite weekend
I've noticed that there are quite a few kids heading to Regina this weekend to attend the western elite evaluation camp. Just wondering how do you evaluate a kid in a weekend? Especially when he's been away from the game and ice for at least 3 months? Or could this be a money grab.....! Would it not be better to attend a skill development camp?
I've noticed that there are quite a few kids heading to Regina this weekend to attend the western elite evaluation camp. Just wondering how do you evaluate a kid in a weekend? Especially when he's been away from the game and ice for at least 3 months? Or could this be a money grab.....! Would it not be better to attend a skill development camp?
Money Grab is right!
I totally agree with you NAH68. This camp in the past and to date is nothing more than a money grab as is most of the camps that go on. Not all the top end kids go to this camp. Sure they get invited but the smart ones end up spending the money on development such as power skating or strength training. Has a 95 boy that opted not to attend as did other top end kids. You cant evaluate kids that have not been on the ice or have been concentrating on off ice training in a few days. If you are going to do it right, do it mid season or over xmas and get a true read on where these kids are at. from what I have heard there are some top end kids that are not going to this camp but are focusing on training and improving thier skills. To do a true evaluation do it during the season when it most counts. Parents spend your money elsewhere.
I totally agree with you NAH68. This camp in the past and to date is nothing more than a money grab as is most of the camps that go on. Not all the top end kids go to this camp. Sure they get invited but the smart ones end up spending the money on development such as power skating or strength training. Has a 95 boy that opted not to attend as did other top end kids. You cant evaluate kids that have not been on the ice or have been concentrating on off ice training in a few days. If you are going to do it right, do it mid season or over xmas and get a true read on where these kids are at. from what I have heard there are some top end kids that are not going to this camp but are focusing on training and improving thier skills. To do a true evaluation do it during the season when it most counts. Parents spend your money elsewhere.
Money Grab??
I agree to disagree with posts reguarding Western Porspects Bantam Showcase.
Agree that the camp is not designed for development purposes. If you want development be it for skating or skills put your money somewhere else.
Disagree because I attended the orientation and guest speaker presentations yesterday and the information provided to the kids was invaluable. Not invaluable from a development stand point but invaluable from a life lesson stand point. Two speakers JC Lippon and Preston Shupe gave talks about their experiences in hockey to date and the message was clear. No matter what stage a person is at in their hockey development at this stage of their lives, hard work and determination is what ultimately determines how far you can go in hockey. As a parent I have talked to my kids often about this but to hear it from two young role models near their age group drives the message home in a stronger way. The message is coming from role models in their age group who have recently come through the hockey system be it the WHL and the NHL draft as is the case with JC Lippon or through the US Div1 college system as is the case with Preston Shupe.
The other thing that makes this camp unique is the fitness testing element of the camp. They put the kids through a measurable fitness test that most WHL and college teams perform for their athletes. They then put these results in a baseline package that is given to the player. The player is able to then look at the results, be they strengths or weaknesses, and work on improving their results going forward.
They also rank the players over the course of the camp so that each player gets a feel for where they stand at this point in time in their development. Do the ranking mean anything in the big picture of the WHL draft? No not at all because really there are only about 40 of the 160 kids in this camp that will be drafted into the WHL and only about 3 or 4 will get drafted in the first 2 rounds. Are the rankings 100% accurate. No they are the opinions of evaluators who saw a kid play 2 or 3 or 4 hockey games? But I think what this does is give a kid feedback as to where they are in their development and where they need to improve. Hopefully it drives them to work on improving their skills going forward.
Preston Shupe told a great story. As a 15 year old , he tried out for the Weyburn Midget AA team and was cut. At this point he had a choice, quit hockey or play midget house. He chose to play midget house and at that point vowed to dedicate himself to getting better and to make the midget AA team the following year. The next year he made the team and at mid year got called up to play Midget AAA in Tisdale. He was a fourth line player to start with and again came to the realization that he had to work harder to get better in order to become at top line player. With hard work and determination he accomplished this, played three years of junior with Weyburn Redwings and now 3 years of DIV1 US college hockey. Great story and and great message for our kids because no matter what level of hockey they attain the hope is that the lessons learned through sport will lead to successes later in their lives.
As for the money, there are worse thing to spend it on like maybe an XBox and 4 or 5 games $700 bucks.
I agree to disagree with posts reguarding Western Porspects Bantam Showcase.
Agree that the camp is not designed for development purposes. If you want development be it for skating or skills put your money somewhere else.
Disagree because I attended the orientation and guest speaker presentations yesterday and the information provided to the kids was invaluable. Not invaluable from a development stand point but invaluable from a life lesson stand point. Two speakers JC Lippon and Preston Shupe gave talks about their experiences in hockey to date and the message was clear. No matter what stage a person is at in their hockey development at this stage of their lives, hard work and determination is what ultimately determines how far you can go in hockey. As a parent I have talked to my kids often about this but to hear it from two young role models near their age group drives the message home in a stronger way. The message is coming from role models in their age group who have recently come through the hockey system be it the WHL and the NHL draft as is the case with JC Lippon or through the US Div1 college system as is the case with Preston Shupe.
The other thing that makes this camp unique is the fitness testing element of the camp. They put the kids through a measurable fitness test that most WHL and college teams perform for their athletes. They then put these results in a baseline package that is given to the player. The player is able to then look at the results, be they strengths or weaknesses, and work on improving their results going forward.
They also rank the players over the course of the camp so that each player gets a feel for where they stand at this point in time in their development. Do the ranking mean anything in the big picture of the WHL draft? No not at all because really there are only about 40 of the 160 kids in this camp that will be drafted into the WHL and only about 3 or 4 will get drafted in the first 2 rounds. Are the rankings 100% accurate. No they are the opinions of evaluators who saw a kid play 2 or 3 or 4 hockey games? But I think what this does is give a kid feedback as to where they are in their development and where they need to improve. Hopefully it drives them to work on improving their skills going forward.
Preston Shupe told a great story. As a 15 year old , he tried out for the Weyburn Midget AA team and was cut. At this point he had a choice, quit hockey or play midget house. He chose to play midget house and at that point vowed to dedicate himself to getting better and to make the midget AA team the following year. The next year he made the team and at mid year got called up to play Midget AAA in Tisdale. He was a fourth line player to start with and again came to the realization that he had to work harder to get better in order to become at top line player. With hard work and determination he accomplished this, played three years of junior with Weyburn Redwings and now 3 years of DIV1 US college hockey. Great story and and great message for our kids because no matter what level of hockey they attain the hope is that the lessons learned through sport will lead to successes later in their lives.
As for the money, there are worse thing to spend it on like maybe an XBox and 4 or 5 games $700 bucks.
western prospects camp
Just noticed on Western Elites web site there are the roster of all the players in attendance. Looks like a good showing in most part. But there are a lot of the high end players not in attendance. I talked to some of the parents who's kids went and so far the camp is just OK. Are they glad they went? Yes. Would they attend it again. Probably not. A lot of what came from them was that this should be in mid winter and not mid summer.
Western elite camp
I'm glad that those whom attended had a great experience.....but have heard a lot of negative comments and still believe its a money grab. Furthermore I truly believe that most of the second year bantams in the western provinces will be either playing midget aaa or aa next year. Hence why do you need to have your kid evaluated by the so called WHL scouts at this camp? Skill development and strength training are the things kids at this age need to work on to move on.
I'm glad that those whom attended had a great experience.....but have heard a lot of negative comments and still believe its a money grab. Furthermore I truly believe that most of the second year bantams in the western provinces will be either playing midget aaa or aa next year. Hence why do you need to have your kid evaluated by the so called WHL scouts at this camp? Skill development and strength training are the things kids at this age need to work on to move on.
yes, great resumes and/or history with all those guys.
Question - their website is showing a fair play policy. Do all teams in the league have this?
My experience in SBAAHL is fair is not equal. This is the truth. I've been in contact with several parents and watched several games in the league. I know this to be true. Some will now get on this thread and start chatting about fair should be equal... Folks when exactly does the life lesson begin? It has to be bantam. At AAA midget many end up with a stiff reality check if they haven't been eased into it at AA bantam.
This doesn't mean a kid gets three shifts a game but does mean some see the ice far more than others.
GSHL has their policies and each other team has their own association policies. It's not equal ice. Some players get 30+ mins a game. Certainly hope Saskatoon doesn't make a stink about it or hope to effect change. My experience with GSHL in the past is there were grumblings if kids on opposition teams got the slightest bit more ice then others. All of a sudden it was a loss because certain kids never left the ice. Seemed to have nothing to do with coaches inability to adapt to the situation. Let's not forget who's joining who's league in all this.
PokeCheck101 said:
Out of curiosity, at what point do one quarter of the league's teams get to claim the league belongs to them too?
On the broader note about ice time distribution, when do we start to factor the evidence base into our approach? Since the overall objective of the league is to develop hockey players, shouldn't we create policies that encourage the behaviour that will most effectively develop players?
The argument about 'life lessons' is asinine. If you have complete control over ensuring a small sliver of a kid's life IS fair, why go out of your way to make sure it's NOT fair just so it corresponds with all the other slivers that you DON'T control?
On point 1: I'm not suggesting the league belongs to them. I'm suggesting some parents used to a balanced scale may grumble because their idea of fair play accustomed to will be challenged.
On point 2: this is my observations. Discussions I've had with parents also share the same opinion, fair is not equal. You may be overlooking a component, COMMUNICATION. Coaches who effectively communicate to parents up front and honestly are more inclined to gain approval and understanding on ice time. Coaches attempting to reign supreme with an agenda should never be allowed to coach. My experience is that when the latter occurs, associations do not do the right thing by not selecting that individual to coach the following season.
I hate to make a correlation between a pro athlete and kids but why is it that a pro football player spends seasons on a practice roster. Why is it they never quit? Desire. Desire to improve and get on the team. Development continuously gets brought into the fair play issue. Any coach a AA must have an understanding for the game and know when to put certain players on the ice and when not. Development occurs in practice and self commitment to achieve thereby creating more opportunity for reward. Like I said no 14 yr old should only have 3 shifts a game. Maybe it's more PP or PK... Maybe an offensive draw late in the game. But a player must put forth an effort for improvement. The feedback being greater reward.
A "sliver" of life.... Hockey is a major part of an elite kids life. Mentally, physically and socially. Imagine a corporate world where extra effort and strong work ethic are not rewarded in some fashion. Where the work of one or a few never get recognized. Sport has the ability to expose a kid to a small sampling of the way life is. A great coach develops his/her team in practice and instills the value of an honest days pay. If he does that, fair play is never an issue.
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How does this sound?
1. SBAAHL should have a fair play policy that guides all teams in the league.
2. SBAAHL should have a fair play policy that ensures both regular playing time and flexibility as a coach during the third period, playoffs, penalty kill and powerplay. Matching lines is an acceptable practice.
3. Every player that is dressed (with exception of goaltenders) will play in all three periods.
opinions..
1. SBAAHL should have a fair play policy that guides all teams in the league.
2. SBAAHL should have a fair play policy that ensures both regular playing time and flexibility as a coach during the third period, playoffs, penalty kill and powerplay. Matching lines is an acceptable practice.
3. Every player that is dressed (with exception of goaltenders) will play in all three periods.
opinions..
I think at some point we probably need to get to a place where we don't think of the Saskatoon teams as foreign invaders joining a morally superior group of teams in a league, and instead think of all ~20 as having equal claim to the league.
I'm not suggesting that "fair is equal", what I'm suggesting is that we should forget about the concepts of "fair" and "equal" all together and instead prioritize player development. This means we have to dig deeper into the concept of player development and create standards around ice time distribution that are most likely to lead to the most development for the greatest amount of kids. At that point, if we think the evidence shows that playing some kids 40-50 minutes a game is the best way to develop all players, we should do that. Hint: the evidence suggests the opposite.
I'm not suggesting "desire" isn't a part of it, but the primary reason is that it's a job. They get paid. Which is the opposite scenario for players in minor hockey in Saskatchewan - their families pay so they CAN play.
I agree completely that hockey is a significant part of life for elite players. It's also a pretty small component when you think of all of the other things the kid encounters outside of hockey and all they'll encounter as they grow up. With all of the other things that will teach them that "life isn't fair", why should we go out of our way to teach them that lesson through hockey too, especially when we can exercise a fair amount of control over whether or not that's the case?
I'm not advocating fair play in the sense that a coach's discretion be taken completely out of the equation. In fact, I think that's the last thing we should do. But there are some pretty reasonable guidelines that could be developed that would still give coaches very significant discretion, and still make sure everyone can play and develop.
Think about it this way. In bantam hockey, teams have 3 lines. In the NHL, teams have 4 lines. If you focused for a second on the ice time distribution between lines 1 and 3 in the NHL (ignoring the 4th line), you'd see a distribution that's actually way more equal than the way certain bantam teams distribute ice time amongst their 3 lines. You'd see line matching taking place, and you'd see different scenarios where certain players play and others do not, but you'd never see a #1 centre or a #1 d-man play for 50 minutes of a regular 60 minute game. Ever.
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