San Jose assistant coach blast voters for not having W Karlsson in top 3 selke

[Ducks in a row]

the selke is a reputation award. it's bs.

It also seems to take offense into account as well when it comes to people voting on it which makes it more BS

 

[hockeyguy1967]

”Förstår inte att han inte var en kandidat”

What does +/- have to do with the Selke? It is a team stat.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Swedes seem to get outraged and triggered when one of their own isn’t put on a pedestal.

Ye they are the only ones, americans never do that...

 

[JeremyTB]

Some sorry GM is going to overpay for him as it based on one fluke season. Don't drive his price up even more by making him a selke nominee.

 

[CupInSIX]

Smith and Karlsson deserve equal recognition for their 2-way play, and Marchessault hasn't exactly been a slouch in that department either.

But between the two, Smith has been the better defensive forward IMO. At least as far as the regular season was concerned.

 

[HanSolo]

Smith and Karlsson deserve equal recognition for their 2-way play, and Marchessault hasn't exactly been a slouch in that department either.

But between the two, Smith has been the better defensive forward IMO. At least as far as the regular season was concerned.

First half for sure. It's a tougher call in the second half and as far as I'm concerned, in the playoffs he's been our best defensive forward.

 

[Dicdonya]

What does +/- have to do with the Selke? It is a team stat.

Yeah its such a team stat that for Vegas, 3 forwards are +30-49, and not one single other forward even broke +10.

That is a BS argument against +/-

If he's going to try to make a case that he should have gotten votes over Bergeron, Kopitar or Couterier, he should probably provide some actual metrics that support that opinion besides "I watch him a lot he's good".

For +/- well... if we're using that for an award metric then Josh Manson should be a Norris candidate no?

Well if Josh Manson also got around 60+ points he probably would be in the discussion. As it is, there are defensman with far greater points, that are also not that far behind in +/-, thus they are looked at for Norris.

Karlsson is far and away the best forward in +/- while also scoring a ton of points. He may not deserve to win the Selke, or he might, but he certainly deserves to be in the discussion based just on those surface stats.

Compared to Manson, Karlsson outscored and/or had better +/- than any of the Selke candidates, playing for a team that won its division. He has good possession stats, plays top comp, and is one of his teams top PK'ers. There is no reason he should not be in the discussion at the very least.

 

[HanSolo]

Yeah its such a team stat that for Vegas, 3 forwards are +30-49, and not one single other forward even broke +10.

That is a BS argument against +/-



Well if Josh Manson also got around 60+ points he probably would be in the discussion. As it is, there are defensman with far greater points, that are also not that far behind in +/-, thus they are looked at for Norris.

Karlsson is far and away the best forward in +/- while also scoring a ton of points. He may not deserve to win the Selke, or he might, but he certainly deserves to be in the discussion based just on those surface stats.

Compared to Manson, Karlsson outscored and/or had better +/- than any of the Selke candidates, playing for a team that won its division. He has good possession stats, plays top comp, and is one of his teams top PK'ers. There is no reason he should not be in the discussion at the very least.

Eye test helps too. Karlsson was terrific defensively. It wasn't just constant luck of only being on the ice for goals for.

 

[Dicdonya]

Eye test helps too. Karlsson was terrific defensively. It wasn't just constant luck of only being on the ice for goals for.

Yeah, Im sure he looked good too, as a SJ fan I will defer my opinion based on eye tests to others who have watched him far more. Stats wise, he is clearly in the discussion.

 

[Spazkat]

Well if Josh Manson also got around 60+ points he probably would be in the discussion. As it is, there are defensman with far greater points, that are also not that far behind in +/-, thus they are looked at for Norris.

Karlsson is far and away the best forward in +/- while also scoring a ton of points. He may not deserve to win the Selke, or he might, but he certainly deserves to be in the discussion based just on those surface stats.

Compared to Manson, Karlsson outscored and/or had better +/- than any of the Selke candidates, playing for a team that won its division. He has good possession stats, plays top comp, and is one of his teams top PK'ers. There is no reason he should not be in the discussion at the very least.

Wow, that point just went 'wooooosh' over your head. What I was trying to point out was that points plus +/- is not how they typically award the Selke. Among other things, they look for D zone usage and FOW%. Hint: Haula and Eakin lines took the most DZ starts- Karlsson line most OZ starts, and as someone pointed out earlier... Karlsson is terribad at faceoffs (sub 50%). Cherry picking 2 stats and saying "eye test!" isn't really how that goes.

I'm not saying Karlsson is bad by any means, but he's up there with the 3 finalists either.

 

[koyvoo]

He madd

 

[Revelation]

Selke is a reputation award. Only reason it's not Bergeron Kesler and Kopitar was because Kesler was practically dead this year.

Karlsson was the best 2 way forward in the league this year ainec, having Bergeron there is embarrassing when he was the 3rd best on his line

 

[Dicdonya]

Wow, that point just went 'wooooosh' over your head. What I was trying to point out was that points plus +/- is not how they typically award the Selke. Among other things, they look for D zone usage and FOW%. Hint: Haula and Eakin lines took the most DZ starts- Karlsson line most OZ starts, and as someone pointed out earlier... Karlsson is terribad at faceoffs (sub 50%). Cherry picking 2 stats and saying "eye test!" isn't really how that goes.

I'm not saying Karlsson is bad by any means, but he's up there with the 3 finalists either.

Much harder to have a discussion if you cant help but put words in my mouth.

First off I never said, Selke does, or should, go to the forward with best +/-. Simply was rebutting the person I quoted when they said its a team stat. Also I simply answered why Manson is most likely not a candidate based entirely on his +/-.

Second, I specifically did not use "eye test" in my argument, and in my reply to another poster talking about "eye test" I distanced myself from using that discussion, as I do not watch Karlsson enough to even attempt to use it as a metric, even if I wanted to try and argue using the "eye test".

Now that those things are cleared up. If you want to claim Karlsson had the most Ozone starts that is TRUE, but if that is true, than Haula and Eakin did NOT have the most defensive zone starts which you claimed to be true.

However if you were trying to imply that Karlsson's line had the highest Ozone start %, than your statement is FALSE.

Rounded to the nearest whole number, Haula had a 5v5 Ozone start % of 54%. Karlsson was 52%, and Eakin 50%.

So Im sorry, your little "hint" was borderline useless to the discussion. BTW, one of the Selke candidates has worse Ozone% than Karlsson, while taking less faceoffs in the Dzone, and has worse +/- and has less points than Karlsson. Ill let you decide which one it was. So if that player is a Selke finalist, please illuminate me on how that is fine, but Karlsson being one wouldn't fit.

Lastly, I did not "cherry pick" two stats. I stated that those two stats should have him in the conversation, then listed about 4 other areas I believe indicate he should have been looked at even closer as a finalist.

If you choose to reply, please do so with what I actually said, I would appreciate it.

 

[sr edler]

Swedes seem to get outraged and triggered when one of their own isn’t put on a pedestal.

Those Swedes and their unscrupulous self-boosting.

 

[DDRhockey]

Swedes seem to get outraged and triggered when one of their own isn’t put on a pedestal.

What has swedes got to do with this?

Talk about a worthless comment

 

[Kevs Security]

How Is Wild Bill top3 in any way? Bergeron, Couturier, Barkov, Kopitar. Is he better than any of those? And there are loads of more good selke players after them.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Swedes seem to get outraged and triggered when one of their own isn’t put on a pedestal.

Is this especially true for Swedes? I mean, look no further than the current American president.
Besides, no one is outraged. Hedberg just shared his personal opinion.

 

[DrJustice]

Selke is a reputation award. Only reason it's not Bergeron Kesler and Kopitar was because Kesler was practically dead this year.

Karlsson was the best 2 way forward in the league this year ainec, having Bergeron there is embarrassing when he was the 3rd best on his line

When Kesler is actually good he gets nominated. When he's injured and crap, he doesn't get nominated. Funny how that works.

Also, the bolded isn't even close to being true. Anyone who watches the Bruins on a regular basis knows what the real pecking order of that line really was this year. Bergeron was on pace for his best season ever before the injury, and it's really the only argument against his nomination.

Even if you think Karlsson should be above him, you are arguing 3rd and 4th for an award that I think is pretty clearly Kopitar's to lose.

This is like being upset Backlund wasn't nominated last season when he finished 4th in the voting.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What has swedes got to do with this?

Talk about a worthless comment

Every one of your posts is some form of propaganda intended to place Swedish players over all others. We’ve seen it with your posts on Hedman and Erik Karlsson while knocking down any player who isn’t Swedish. Sorry, but I couldn’t resist the urge to call you out when you do it yet again.

Maybe others who aren’t Swedish player earned those Selke votes because of their play? Are you going to tell me none of the nominees deserve those accolades?

 

[DDRhockey]

Every one of your posts is some form of propaganda intended to place Swedish players over all others. We’ve seen it with your posts on Hedman and Erik Karlsson while knocking down any player who isn’t Swedish. Sorry, but I couldn’t resist the urge to call you out when you do it yet again.

Maybe others who aren’t Swedish player earned those Selke votes because of their play? Are you going to tell me none of the nominees deserve those accolades?

So what? We have cheerleaders for canadian players as well. Same for russia, poster ViD has always started threads about russian players.

I will do the same and you cant stop me. Cry me a river

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Yeah its such a team stat that for Vegas, 3 forwards are +30-49, and not one single other forward even broke +10.

That is a BS argument against +/-



Well if Josh Manson also got around 60+ points he probably would be in the discussion. As it is, there are defensman with far greater points, that are also not that far behind in +/-, thus they are looked at for Norris.

Karlsson is far and away the best forward in +/- while also scoring a ton of points. He may not deserve to win the Selke, or he might, but he certainly deserves to be in the discussion based just on those surface stats.

Compared to Manson, Karlsson outscored and/or had better +/- than any of the Selke candidates, playing for a team that won its division. He has good possession stats, plays top comp, and is one of his teams top PK'ers. There is no reason he should not be in the discussion at the very least.

McDavid was tied for 3rd among forwards the year before last season, should he have gotten the Selke? Or the year before had Lucic in the top 10 again another Selke candidate?

All it shows with there top 3 forwards and top 2 dmen all up there in plus minus is they had one great line carrying them with Karlsson shooting something crazy like 30%.

Plus minus is only decent when comparing within the same team and even then it is very suspect.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Eye test helps too. Karlsson was terrific defensively. It wasn't just constant luck of only being on the ice for goals for.

Yeah it had nothing to do with his Shooting percentage being triple what it was all his other years lol. Feel bad for the team that signs him long term for 8+

 

[Critical13]

It's one thing to argue Karlsson is good defensively, it's another to put down elite players like Bergeron while doing it. Shaking my head at some of the replies in this thread.

 

[Crede777]

So what? We have cheerleaders for canadian players as well. Same for russia, poster ViD has always started threads about russian players.

I will do the same and you cant stop me. Cry me a river

This is true, but it seems on here many threads about prominent Swedes and Finns comes down to Swedish and Finnish posters arguing.

As for Karlsson, we all know that more goes into these awards than simply numbers. Karlsson doesn't have the reputation. Same goes for the Vezina and Hart. Only the awards directly tied to stats (Rocket, Art Ross, etc.) rely entirely on the stats.

 

[Slap]

A Swede pimping another Swede. Moving on.