Confirmed with Link: Sam Reinhart sent down to Kootenay Ice

[Ethan Edwards]

I'd love to see how you prove it hurt him...That statement works both ways. Drouin is dominating now, with an extra year to develop on things he needed help with.

Here's one of those smilie things:

Why would I need to prove it hurt him? I'll say it once more (for the third time): I never said it hurt Drouin or will hurt SR. In fact, I've specifically said it WON'T hurt. That's not the point. It's where will they better develop. I would argue that with the big club is where they'll best develop. If you think they'll better develop in Jrs., that's fine, but my argument would be that even if they develop further in Jrs., they'd BETTER develop with the big club, for a variety of reasons already mentioned.

Separately, Drouin is absolutely NOT dominating now. He's developing. I think he's getting 4th line minutes currently and has a few things to work on at the NHL level. Things that can't be taught in-game at the Jr. level. Things that I'd argue could've been worked on with Tampa last year.

 

[1972]

Drouin was going to be good weather he played last year in Tampa Bay or Halifax, elite players will become elite players regardless where they stick or return to juniors. Reinhart will be no different.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

I'd love to see how you prove it hurt him...That statement works both ways. Drouin is dominating now, with an extra year to develop on things he needed help with.

Drouin was recently demoted to the 4th line because of his play away from the puck. His game has lots of room to grow even with the extra year in Halifax. Going back to Kootenay certainly won't hurt Reinhart.

 

[dugman]

Drouin was recently demoted to the 4th line because of his play away from the puck. His game has lots of room to grow even with the extra year in Halifax. Going back to Kootenay certainly won't hurt Reinhart.

I love debates in which even the player won't ever really know which would have helped his development (Grigorenko is playing really well now...apparently the Sabres handled his development perfectly!)
I'm interested in Reinhart being returned to a junior team that is awful, to see whether he carries them on his back, or if they continue to stink. Might prove to be valuable skill to have in Buffalo next year...

 

[Baccus]

More importantly it gives him time to develop physically with no pressure to help the NHL's worst team.

I was fine either way, but sending him down makes sense with how Murray's been handling the kids in general.

 

[Dex]

Add me to the minority in this thread--very disappointing decision. It doesn't progress his development, merely stalls it for a year. I fully admit that Reinhart did nothing to force Murray's hand here, so in that sense sending him down was foreseeable. However...

I keep reading how it's "so exciting" that he'll be able to go back to Jrs. and dominate and how he needs keep developing in Jrs., etc. Here are his Jr. totals:

Year Team GP G A Pts PIM
2010–11 Kootenay Ice 4 2 0 2 0
2011–12 Kootenay Ice 67 28 34 62 2
2012–13 Kootenay Ice 72 35 50 85 22
2013–14 Kootenay Ice 60 36 69 105 11

He's already shown he can dominate in Jrs. Continuing to dominate is great and sounds fantastic, but it won't raise his level. No, going back doesn't hurt him, but it isn't going to help him either, at least on the ice. His on-ice development at the Junior level is over. Off the ice (meaning not in-game) is where he needs work (strength and skating), no argument. He could just as easily, and probably better, accomplish that in Buffalo, even with the tire fire the team has become (his maturity has never been in question). Let him practice with the team, play in some games (even with linemates that seem sub-par), scratch him in others so he can further work on strength and conditioning, and properly develop him at the NHL level. And let him work with the pro skating coach Buffalo employs. All of this is preferable, IMO, to going back for yet another year at Kootenay, where he's already developed as much as that league will allow. This is true even if you believe, as I did, Nolan is doing a disservice to the kid in-game. Besides, I noticed clear game-to-game improvement from the kid (his smarts have never been in question). Regardless, there's much more to his development than ice time and in-game use, though that was part of it and I believe that issue, his strength/skating, and the fact he didn't blow folks away is why he was sent back down.

And SR is a huge part of this team's future, so ELC status, while arguably an ancillary consideration, has ZERO to do with the decision. It's solely where the team feels he'll best develop. I disagree with their decision on that score.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying, but I still think it was best to remove Reinhart from this tire fire of a season.

I think it's 6 of one half dozen of the the other insofar as development is concerned. Reinhart will have a chance to lead Team Canada at the World Juniors which I suppose would be possible if he was still with Buffalo. Kootenay appears to be out of on the outside looking in relative to a playoff spot. Is there a chance he could be traded to a contender?

One can argue the training point, but it's tough for me to view that as enough of a positive to offset the negatives. The overriding factor to me is the atmosphere in Buffalo. - the team, the fans, the press.

I don't see him playing fourth line minutes against other teams' 4th liners as any way to keep his development on track. I don't see him as an energy type of guy and I don't see any benefit of him playing with the likes of McCormick, Deslauriers, or Kaleta - against other teams equivalent of McCormick, Deslauriers and Kaleta.

I see little benefit in watching from the press box. I see a definite downside in being around a team that appears to have no desire to compete. The further this fiasco of a season goes, the more pressure will be on him and the questions about why he's not playing/developing/performing will increase and intensify. I would not want to spend a whole season at the NHL level listening to how he's undersized, how he needs to work harder, how he has not earned a promotion, how he has not earned PP minutes etc etc. I wonder how long it would be before he starts to hear the boos from the fans when the 4th liners he's with don't score. I'd hate to have him incur an injury when matched against some other team's 4th line guys - who are typically much larger in size - especially when we all know right now his that size and strength are his biggest issues.

Advantage Murray. I think he did the right thing.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying, but I still think it was best to remove Reinhart from this tire fire of a season.

I disagree with your conclusion (return to Jrs was the right move), but agree with many of your points.

 

[EichHart]

Here's one of those smilie things:

Why would I need to prove it hurt him? I'll say it once more (for the third time): I never said it hurt Drouin or will hurt SR. In fact, I've specifically said it WON'T hurt. That's not the point. It's where will they better develop. I would argue that with the big club is where they'll best develop. If you think they'll better develop in Jrs., that's fine, but my argument would be that even if they develop further in Jrs., they'd BETTER develop with the big club, for a variety of reasons already mentioned.

Separately, Drouin is absolutely NOT dominating now. He's developing. I think he's getting 4th line minutes currently and has a few things to work on at the NHL level. Things that can't be taught in-game at the Jr. level. Things that I'd argue could've been worked on with Tampa last year.

Fair enough points. I can see what you're saying is true on basically any other NHL team. But the Sabres this year are such a **** show, I honestly believe even though he may not learn to much in Kootenay...It would be still better for his development than playing here. He will be captain, 1st line minutes, PP/PK, face-off Guru, on a bad team that he can maybe help to get into the playoffs. He will be walking into a difficult situation there, but feel its still better than the situation here.

 

[joshjull]

Here's one of those smilie things:

Why would I need to prove it hurt him? I'll say it once more (for the third time): I never said it hurt Drouin or will hurt SR. In fact, I've specifically said it WON'T hurt. That's not the point. It's where will they better develop. I would argue that with the big club is where they'll best develop. If you think they'll better develop in Jrs., that's fine, but my argument would be that even if they develop further in Jrs., they'd BETTER develop with the big club, for a variety of reasons already mentioned.

Separately, Drouin is absolutely NOT dominating now. He's developing. I think he's getting 4th line minutes currently and has a few things to work on at the NHL level. Things that can't be taught in-game at the Jr. level. Things that I'd argue could've been worked on with Tampa last year.

Its true Drouin has been domoted to the 4th line and he certainly isn't dominating. He was demoted because he needs to work on his play away from the puck. Something that isn't an issue for Reinhart

Murray and the training staff gave Reinhart a plan to work on his strength during his time in juniors. He has targets they want him to hit by the start of training camp next year. The hope, as Murray put it, was to have Reinhart 25% towards those targets when the offseason begins. Murray went on to say he (Reinhart) can't start of at 0% towards his targets next offseason. And if he starts of at 25% he may even surpass the targets for next training camp.

Reinhart is a different type of player than Drouin. His hockey IQ and understanding of the game with and without the puck is off the charts. He simply needs to get bigger and stronger. The only way staying here would have facilitated that faster is if he sat much of the season. That way he could go hard toward getting stronger and get the proper recovery time he needed as he worked on his strength in season. Thats something Murray said was never an option.


At the end of the day it boils down to this….. Where is he more likely to get a jump start on bulking up and getting stronger? Juniors or the NHL? Because from Murray's pov thats the only thing missing for Reinhart right now. Murray didn't sound remotely concerned about his development from a hockey pov.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

Fair enough points. I can see what you're saying is true on basically any other NHL team. But the Sabres this year are such a **** show, I honestly believe even though he may not learn to much in Kootenay...It would be still better for his development than playing here. He will be captain, 1st line minutes, PP/PK, face-off Guru, on a bad team that he can maybe help to get into the playoffs. He will be walking into a difficult situation there, but feel its still better than the situation here.

Yes, he'll be exposed to all the things you list, but I don't agree that those things translate into superior development all things considered. But the argument you make here is a solid one and much better than the Drouin one earlier, it's just a matter of the conclusion each person draws. I seem to differ from most on here, but that's okay. In the end, I don't think the difference between staying and going will be exponential in any way. It's just something else to talk about when trying to avoid the in-season subject of the Sabres' on-ice product, which I think we all agree needs to be shipped off to Kootenay in full.

 

[Ruckus007]

There you go again...

The cap floor is a non-issue.

This is not an issue like you think. I don't understand why people think it'll be an issue when Murray reached the floor within what an hour?

??

Of course they'll get to the floor, but they'll have to spend again, right? And since presumably there will be a few guys on ELCs on next years team, and there doesn't look to be any RFAs who are in line for healthy raises (Grigorenko, Pysyk?) there will be fewer roster spots to spend money on. It'll get done, obviously, but I wouldn't call it a non-issue.

 

[ZZamboni]

??

Of course they'll get to the floor, but they'll have to spend again, right? And since presumably there will be a few guys on ELCs on next years team, and there doesn't look to be any RFAs who are in line for healthy raises (Grigorenko, Pysyk?) there will be fewer roster spots to spend money on. It'll get done, obviously, but I wouldn't call it a non-issue.

Ok fair enough. While you and a couple others consider it an issue. The vast majority will consider it a non-issue. I think I can speak for the vast majority when saying, the level of concern for the cap floor is right in line with Murray trading Girgensons this season. Non-issue.

 

[Baccus]

In the history of the salary cap, exactly zero teams haven't reached the floor.

It's not an issue and there simply won't be as many ELC players on the team at one time as people seem to assume.

 

[Ruckus007]

Ok fair enough. While you and a couple others consider it an issue. The vast majority will consider it a non-issue. I think I can speak for the vast majority when saying, the level of concern for the cap floor is right in line with Murray trading Girgensons this season. Non-issue.

The vast majority, whatever that means, are as equally entitled to their opinion on this as I am but it's not a non-issue. It's going to play a role in how next year's roster is constructed.

 

[Ruckus007]

Ok fair enough. While you and a couple others consider it an issue. The vast majority will consider it a non-issue. I think I can speak for the vast majority when saying, the level of concern for the cap floor is right in line with Murray trading Girgensons this season. Non-issue.

FYI, I hadn't seen the conversation on this over in the Roster Specuation thread. Sorry for the spillover!

 

[Beerz]

Kootenay ICE ‏@WHLKootenayICE 50m50 minutes ago

NEWS: Sam Reinhart will captain Team WHL at the Subway Super Series against Russia next week: http://kootenayice.net/article/reinhart-named-team-whl-captain …

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The vast majority, whatever that means, are as equally entitled to their opinion on this as I am but it's not a non-issue. It's going to play a role in how next year's roster is constructed.

you: its not a non issue because you have to deal with it before the season starts, you can't just ignore it (correct)

everyone else: its a non issue because it'll be easy to deal with before the season starts, and will have little to no lasting impact on Murray's plans for the long term roster (correct)

technically yes you are right, putting gas in your car is not a non-issue, if you don't do it you can't drive, but no one pulls up to the pump and wonders if they'll be physically able to put gas in the tank (unless you don't have money, which isn't a problem the Sabres will face), you just do it because its super easy to do

 

[Paxon]

Kootenay ICE ‏@WHLKootenayICE 50m50 minutes ago

NEWS: Sam Reinhart will captain Team WHL at the Subway Super Series against Russia next week: http://kootenayice.net/article/reinhart-named-team-whl-captain …

I figured they'd put him on the team even as late as it is, but it's still good to hear, especially that he's going to be captain. The SSS is always a lot of fun.

 

[SabreDr]

Kootenay ICE ‏@WHLKootenayICE 50m50 minutes ago

NEWS: Sam Reinhart will captain Team WHL at the Subway Super Series against Russia next week: http://kootenayice.net/article/reinhart-named-team-whl-captain …

They better have a workout gym there