Confirmed with Link: Sam Gagner 1 year extension

[Frk It]

Why tough break for Zadina? He and Veleno looked good together in Grand Rapids. And it was clear last season that Zadina didn't belong in the top 6 of ANY team. Let the dude earn it this year. If he wants top 6 ice then he has to play his way up.

I’d like to see him have better linemates.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I’d like to see him have better linemates.

Erne was one of our top scorers last year. And Veleno isn't some trash 13th forward.

The fact of the matter is this; Berggren is a MUCH better skater and passer than Zadina. So good that his skating is probably top 3 on the team and his passing is probably already the best on the team.
He'd be wasted on the 4th line with Namestnikov, Smith, Ras and Gagner because none of them know how to score.
You're breaking the rule of 2 rookies on a line if you bump him down to the 3rd with Veleno.
We have the makings of a 2nd line with real chemistry in the Guelph Storm line.

So you're better off using your speedy playmaking winger with a speedy playmaking forward, and a speedy 2-way center.

Zadina isn't bad but last season really made me question his upside. And I'd rather have him on the 3rd to play in mismatches.

 

[Henkka]

2020-21 season ES icetimes:

1. Larkin 17:19
2. Vrana 15:17
3. Fabbri 14:51
4. Zadina 14:39
5. Suter 14:28
6. Bertuzzi 14:05

That's pretty much the Top6.

LW Vrana - C Larkin - RW Bertuzzi
LW Fabbri - C Suter - RW Zadina

7. Namestnikov 13:38
8. Veleno 13:27
9. Erne 12:22
--------------
10. Gagner 12:12
11. Rasmussen 11:57
12. Nielsen 10:25
13. Smith 9:52

 

[Frk It]

Don't let stats sway your decision at all. Not to mention Fabbri is a better skater. The blind love for 1st rd picks here is hilarious, so I'll just mention that Fabbri was a 1s rounder as well.

I feel like there are ways to say what you said that sound less ridiculous. But if you want to continue to make Zadina sound like a completely useless and terrible player, go ahead.

I’ll continue to roll my eyes when you do.

 

[Gniwder]

I feel like there are ways to say what you said that sound less ridiculous. But if you want to continue to make Zadina sound like a completely useless and terrible player, go ahead.

I’ll continue to roll my eyes when you do.

Yeah, everyone made the same comment when I criticized Svech and Cholo.

Zadina isn't completely useless, but he's totally overrated for no apparent reason. Tell me what he does well aside from a few nifty takeaways?

Total homerism on Zadina and Raz. Neither have shown top 6 skill set yet. Doesn't mean they can't get there, but they certainly have not earned the role.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yeah, everyone made the same comment when I criticized Svech and Cholo.

Zadina isn't completely useless, but he's totally overrated for no apparent reason. Tell me what he does well aside from a few nifty takeaways?

Total homerism on Zadina and Raz. Neither have shown top 6 skill set yet. Doesn't mean they can't get there, but they certainly have not earned the role.

I feel like saying Zadina hasn't met the early lofty expectations and "hasn't shown top 6 skill" are two extremely different statements. He's frequently shown top 6 skill, but he doesn't consistently show it. Zadina's skill is really dried out when he plays with certain linemates because he never gets a second with the puck on his stick. Larkin and Fabbri play a very up tempo quick shot game. It doesn't really allow for Zadina's best traits to shine. He doesn't get the puck on the rush, the line doesn't set up a zone possession, he doesn't get to manipulate the defense, very rarely does the puck come back to him at even strength once he moves the puck. It looked like oil and water when they were playing together.

If I were making lines, my top 6 would likely be set up like this...

Fabbri-Larkin-Vrana
Bertuzzi-Suter-Zadina

At least to start off. I think Bertuzzi slows the game down a bit, Suter is a good zone entry guy which will help that line get in and settled. Allow Zadina to be the primary puck handler at times.

Then that first line is just Blitzkrieg tempo

 

[Henkka]

Suter is a good zone entry guy which will help that line get in and settled. Allow Zadina to be the primary puck handler at times.

Then that first line is just Blitzkrieg tempo

Is there some source for these zone entry stats? I remember Suter was praised about them but haven't seen any data anywhere?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Is there some source for these zone entry stats? I remember Suter was praised about them but haven't seen any data anywhere?

The best I can give you is this link. Hopefully you can figure out how to manipulate some of this stuff.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/corey.sznajder/viz/testthisisatest/PlayerSearch

He wasn't necessarily the most used zone entry guy, but he had the 5th highest 5-on-5 carry-in zone entry percentage (54%) on the Blackhawks behind Dach, Kane, Debrincat and Kampf. The players in Detroit with higher carry-in rates (looking only at players still with the team) are Filip Zadina (58%) and Sam Gagner (55%).

This would be the names that aim to keep possession when entering the zone and not relying on a dump and chase or passing to enter. To me this stat just says "I value having the puck on my stick."

Other key names for Detroit:
Larkin 49%
Rasmussen 39%
Fabbri 36%
Erne 30%

And here's a fun little example of how shit we are as a team.

 

[MBH]

2020-21 season ES icetimes:

1. Larkin 17:19
2. Vrana 15:17
3. Fabbri 14:51
4. Zadina 14:39
5. Suter 14:28
6. Bertuzzi 14:05

That's pretty much the Top6.

LW Vrana - C Larkin - RW Bertuzzi
LW Fabbri - C Suter - RW Zadina

7. Namestnikov 13:38
8. Veleno 13:27
9. Erne 12:22
--------------
10. Gagner 12:12
11. Rasmussen 11:57
12. Nielsen 10:25
13. Smith 9:52

Suter was top 6 in Chicago - who lost Toews and Dach.
I would hazard to guess that wasn't the plan when they signed him.
And since it wasn't going to be the plan this year, either, they cut him loose rather than pay what his stats demanded.

 

[Oddbob]

I don't see any reason to bring him back, even if he is the only right shot guy we have.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The best I can give you is this link. Hopefully you can figure out how to manipulate some of this stuff.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/corey.sznajder/viz/testthisisatest/PlayerSearch

He wasn't necessarily the most used zone entry guy, but he had the 5th highest 5-on-5 carry-in zone entry percentage (54%) on the Blackhawks behind Dach, Kane, Debrincat and Kampf. The players in Detroit with higher carry-in rates (looking only at players still with the team) are Filip Zadina (58%) and Sam Gagner (55%).

This would be the names that aim to keep possession when entering the zone and not relying on a dump and chase or passing to enter. To me this stat just says "I value having the puck on my stick."

Other key names for Detroit:
Larkin 49%
Rasmussen 39%
Fabbri 36%
Erne 30%

And here's a fun little example of how shit we are as a team.

View attachment 457679

That chart hurts me deep in my heart.

It also reinforces my thought that we desperately need a new coach and philosophy just as much as we need more talent.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

The best I can give you is this link. Hopefully you can figure out how to manipulate some of this stuff.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/corey.sznajder/viz/testthisisatest/PlayerSearch

He wasn't necessarily the most used zone entry guy, but he had the 5th highest 5-on-5 carry-in zone entry percentage (54%) on the Blackhawks behind Dach, Kane, Debrincat and Kampf. The players in Detroit with higher carry-in rates (looking only at players still with the team) are Filip Zadina (58%) and Sam Gagner (55%).

This would be the names that aim to keep possession when entering the zone and not relying on a dump and chase or passing to enter. To me this stat just says "I value having the puck on my stick."

Other key names for Detroit:
Larkin 49%
Rasmussen 39%
Fabbri 36%
Erne 30%

And here's a fun little example of how shit we are as a team.

View attachment 457679

"Shots off FaceOff wins & turnovers are not counted in these totals"


I'd like to see the Full chart which includes FO wins & turnovers/steals etc.

 

[Gniwder]

Does anyone else think it's strange that Stevie shed all of the other offensively useless plugs but kept Gagner? I know it's basically league minimum salary but I would have kept LGD for $1.5 x 2 than sign Gagner for $800k.

Seems like Stevie is clearing house...

 

[SwedishFire]

I don't see any reason to bring him back, even if he is the only right shot guy we have.

Closing in to 1000 games. But it will two years

 

[Hen Kolland]

"Shots off FaceOff wins & turnovers are not counted in these totals"


I'd like to see the Full chart which includes FO wins & turnovers/steals etc.

Well that's all probably available on that site if you want it. This particular chart was really designed to show how teams perform when they gain the puck in the NZ or DZ and try to enter the offensive zone and create offense. The Wings struggle to enter the zone consistently, and they rarely do so carrying the puck with any level of success.

That chart hurts me deep in my heart.

It also reinforces my thought that we desperately need a new coach and philosophy just as much as we need more talent.

I don't think the coaching changes much with the players on hand. We don't have a ton of intelligent and skilled players with mobility. As mobile as Larkin is, I think he skates faster than his brain can problem solve at times, which is why he ends up with a lesser carry rate.

Look at the names of people that carry the puck, for the Wings or across the league. They are players that have a high, high skill level, that think the game at a high level.

Mark Stone, Brayden Point, Connor McDavid, Jack Hughes, Mat Barzal, Kirill Kaprizov, Leon Draisaitl, Sidney Crosby, Nathan MacKinnon, Sasha Barkov, Jack Eichel, etc.

Compare that with the lowest carry rates.

Dryden Hunt, Devin Shore, Mathieu Olivier, Tanner Kero, David Backes, Jay Beagle, Cal Clutterbuck, Matt Martin, Brett Ritchie, Riley Nash, Ryan Reaves

Some of this is dependent on the roles certainly. 4th liners are less likely to carry the puck in...they are more likely to chip and chase, dump and change, etc. But the evidence is clearly more positively related to the talent of the player more so than the coach.

 

[Henkka]

Dryden Hunt, Devin Shore, Mathieu Olivier, Tanner Kero, David Backes, Jay Beagle, Cal Clutterbuck, Matt Martin, Brett Ritchie, Riley Nash, Ryan Reaves

Some of this is dependent on the roles certainly. 4th liners are less likely to carry the puck in...they are more likely to chip and chase, dump and change, etc. But the evidence is clearly more positively related to the talent of the player more so than the coach.

4th liners main job is to start from the Defensive end, and get the puck just away from the zone. If that's completed, it's a win. Anything what happens after getting the puck over own blueline is meaningless. Some of the Top1-2-3 lines come in, in a flying shift and the real offensive hockey starts again for next shifts.

Their stats always look like crap, because of the usage.