Sam Bennett PPG last 11 games

[Flameshomer]

What in the holy hell?
Monahan is at best a 45-50 point 2nd line sheltered centre if not for Gaudreau. Sorry to have to bring the bad news to you.

How many of Mony's goals come from Gaudreau spotting him right in the slot, while having carried the puck and driven the play beforehand?

Given that he had over 20 goals and almost 40 points as a rookie centre, with gaudreau still playing in college, I would wager you a large sum of money that this is inaccurate. Also there's not a remote argument one could make to have bennett at c over monahan.

 

[Mobiandi]

Monahan plays a style that complements Gaudreau's. Whenever they're separated, Monahan can be a guy that drives a line's offense rather than let his wingers carry the puck. His offensive skill is more malleable than people realize.

That being said, it's not that controversial to say that his points total would drop slightly without Gaudreau on his line

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Given that he had over 20 goals and almost 40 points as a rookie centre, with gaudreau still playing in college, I would wager you a large sum of money that this is inaccurate. Also there's not a remote argument one could make to have bennett at c over monahan.

Since Gaudreau entered the league, Monahan's 5v5 p/60 without him is ~1.40.

That's a 29 point pace at 5v5 assuming 15 5v5 mins per game.

45-50 points doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

What in the holy hell?
Monahan is at best a 45-50 point 2nd line sheltered centre if not for Gaudreau. Sorry to have to bring the bad news to you.

How many of Mony's goals come from Gaudreau spotting him right in the slot, while having carried the puck and driven the play beforehand?

Monahan is a #1C in the NHL with or without Gaudreau.

Show me a 100 point player who plays with scrubs and I'll show you Sidney Crosby. Every other elite player in the game has elite talent to play with. Monahan is an elite talent.

 

[McFlyingV]

All this Ferland talk is all too similar to the talk surrounding Maroon since coming to Edmonton. Neither player are real top 6 forwards, but in a cap league you'll rarely ever have 6 forwards in your top 6 that are top 6 quality. Both these guys are complimentary 3rd liners who have enough skill to get by with a star player piggybacking them. Those are valuable players to have, but they are not players who can do much offensively without star players.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

All this Ferland talk is all too similar to the talk surrounding Maroon since coming to Edmonton. Neither player are real top 6 forwards, but in a cap league you'll rarely ever have 6 forwards in your top 6 that are top 6 quality. Both these guys are complimentary 3rd liners who have enough skill to get by with a star player piggybacking them. Those are valuable players to have, but they are not players who can do much offensively without star players.

To build on this, Ferland and Maroon are the sort of players every team in the NHL needs. Teams just have to be careful about overcommitting to them with term and $$$; when those big guys lose it, they lose it fast.

 

[Tkachuky]

1 guys has 17 goals-13 assists for 30 points the other has 13-5-18 basically the same amount of goals as the other guys has points and yet they are being carried equally?

In what world does 18=30?

Like I said, different playing styles. Also, Monahan has more PP time and TOI/G than Ferland. Looking at the point totals does not paint the whole story.

 

[Baxterman]

Like I said, different playing styles. Also, Monahan has more PP time and TOI/G than Ferland. Looking at the point totals does not paint the whole story.

Different playing styles? You mean like Monahan has a different playing style that allows him to be more productive and a better player than Ferland?

PP time because Ferland isn't talented enough or productive enough to be there.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

All this Ferland talk is all too similar to the talk surrounding Maroon since coming to Edmonton. Neither player are real top 6 forwards, but in a cap league you'll rarely ever have 6 forwards in your top 6 that are top 6 quality. Both these guys are complimentary 3rd liners who have enough skill to get by with a star player piggybacking them. Those are valuable players to have, but they are not players who can do much offensively without star players.

Maroon and Ferland are not similar. Ferland has one of the best shots in the NHL and can score cleanly from 35 feet out, and that's on top of all his other abilities like his speed, puck-handling, forechecking skill, and net-front skill. Maroon is a garbage goal artist who is as you describe. Ferland is a 2nd liner on every team in the NHL. Basically a more dynamic James Neal.

 

[McFlyingV]

Maroon and Ferland are not similar. Ferland has one of the best shots in the NHL and can score cleanly from 35 feet out, and that's on top of all his other abilities like his speed, puck-handling, forechecking skill, and net-front skill. Maroon is a garbage goal artist who is as you describe. Ferland is a 2nd liner on every team in the NHL.

Stylistically you're right, I never said their styles of play were anything alike. In terms of offensive effectiveness I'll wait for any kind of stats to support that. Right now I see Maroon with a 42 point 27 goal season under his belt, and players who are separated by 1 point this season. Surely Ferland will prove you right by the end of the season, just like all the other great predictions you've had. Bennett=hart candidate if playing in Monahan's role, Monahan=ppg player. The comedy never ends with you.

 

[Tkachuky]

Different playing styles? You mean like Monahan has a different playing style that allows him to be more productive and a better player than Ferland?

PP time because Ferland isn't talented enough or productive enough to be there.

As a matter of fact he is second in PP goals 2 behind Monahan. Monahan is the better player but if you really think that Ferland gets carried more on this line than Monahan I disagree.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

As a matter of fact he is second in PP goals 2 behind Monahan.

Can't discount the difference in ice time.

Ferland: 5 PPP in 73:07 TOI (4.10 PPP/60)
Monahan: 9 PPP in 115:16 TOI (4.68PPP/60)

Basically the only advantage Monahan has over Ferland on the power play is his ability to win faceoffs which gives him faceoff win assists where he really didn't do a whole lot. But at this point Monahan is not as good at faceoffs as Sam Bennett.

 

[Baxterman]

As a matter of fact he is second in PP goals 2 behind Monahan. Monahan is the better player but if you really think that Ferland gets carried more on this line than Monahan I disagree.

I really can't see how there is any argument when one guy has as many goals as the other guys has points. That same guy has career totals of 353-124-123-247 vs. 206-34-32-64 and is younger.

Ferlands career numbers in 200+ games are similar to a season for Monahan and yet you think they are carried equally? Monahan without Gaudreau even in the league put up a 22-12-34 season as a rookie 18/19 year old which is better than any season Ferland has had as a 25 year old and yet he is getting carried as much as Ferland.

Monahan has close to double the points this year, had more than double the points last year and yet they are carried equally?

It is laughable to suggest that Ferland isn't getting carried a ton more than anyone else on that line.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

All this Ferland talk is all too similar to the talk surrounding Maroon since coming to Edmonton. Neither player are real top 6 forwards, but in a cap league you'll rarely ever have 6 forwards in your top 6 that are top 6 quality. Both these guys are complimentary 3rd liners who have enough skill to get by with a star player piggybacking them. Those are valuable players to have, but they are not players who can do much offensively without star players.

I don't pay a huge amount of attention to Maroon outside of getting annoyed when he runs whichever Flames goalie he's facing, but I'd say Ferland is a top 6 quality forward (maybe Maroon is, too?). Ferland is certainly not going to drive a top 6 line, but he's an excellent complementary player in the top 6, and the fact that he is complementary rather than a pure driving force does not preclude him from being top 6 quality, in my opinion.

I would say, as good as Gaudreau and Monahan are, it is harder to judge how good someone playing with McDavid actually is, because he is an undisputed top 3 player in the league (and arguably the best), who plays the most important forward position in the lineup. He's a clear step up on Monahan, and while Gaudreau is not that far off in terms of offensive ability, he's also in the less impactful position. As a result I'd find it easier to believe that Maroon's numbers are being significantly goosed by his teammates than Ferland's, although they both naturally benefit to a degree from their teammates.

 

[Baxterman]

Can't discount the difference in ice time.

Ferland: 5 PPP in 73:07 TOI (4.10 PPP/60)
Monahan: 9 PPP in 115:16 TOI (4.68PPP/60)

Basically the only advantage Monahan has over Ferland on the power play is his ability to win faceoffs which gives him faceoff win assists where he really didn't do a whole lot. But at this point Monahan is not as good at faceoffs as Sam Bennett.

No you can ignore it because Monahan gets more time because he vastly deserves it more than Ferland.

There isn't some conspiracy to keep Ferland from scoring he doesn't do jack squat to deserve any PP time.

It also ignores Monahans vastly superior play in every aspect and ability to actually make a pass to a fellow teammate something Ferland is still trying to learn how to do.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't pay a huge amount of attention to Maroon outside of getting annoyed when he runs whichever Flames goalie he's facing, but I'd say Ferland is a top 6 quality forward (maybe Maroon is, too?). Ferland is certainly not going to drive a top 6 line, but he's an excellent complementary player in the top 6, and the fact that he is complementary rather than a pure driving force does not preclude him from being top 6 quality, in my opinion.

Excellent?

He has a career high of 25 points. even this year in his break out season he is on pace to get what 45 points and maybe can sneak in double digit assists?

He is a passable complimentary player at best and even that is a stretch.

 

[Volica]

Given that he had over 20 goals and almost 40 points as a rookie centre, with gaudreau still playing in college, I would wager you a large sum of money that this is inaccurate. Also there's not a remote argument one could make to have bennett at c over monahan.

I agree regarding Bennett. Monahan is the better centre between the two today.
I don't think Monahan is a 55-60 point player away from Johnny. I think Johnny elevates Monahan; and I think Monahan gets Johnny some extra points too because of that killer shot he has.

It's no slight on Mony, but he's not by any stretch a dominant 1C in this league; at least not today.

Give him Brouwer and Versteeg (like Bennett last year) and I don't think Mony'd crack 50 points playing between those two.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Right now I see Maroon with a 42 point 27 goal season under his belt, and players who are separated by 1 point this season. =

You realize Maroon averages 1:30 more than than Ferland in ice time right? And you as usual are grasping at straws trying to make parallels with crappy Oilers players that are not there. Ferland is more than a 3rd liner because he can do this:



and this



Whereas Maroon's skillset is the definition of leeching off his linemates, tapping in rebounds after his linemates do all the work.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Excellent?

He has a career high of 25 points. even this year in his break out season he is on pace to get what 45 points and maybe can sneak in double digit assists?

He is a passable complimentary player at best and even that is a stretch.

You don't think 45 points makes for an excellent complementary player? (and yes, I am basing this primarily off of his performance this year). Frolik is a career 0.5 PPG player, and I'd say he's an excellent complementary player. I'd argue if you've got a guy who routinely puts up 50+ points in the current NHL, he's generally not a complementary player anymore.

 

[McFlyingV]

I don't pay a huge amount of attention to Maroon outside of getting annoyed when he runs whichever Flames goalie he's facing, but I'd say Ferland is a top 6 quality forward (maybe Maroon is, too?). Ferland is certainly not going to drive a top 6 line, but he's an excellent complementary player in the top 6, and the fact that he is complementary rather than a pure driving force does not preclude him from being top 6 quality, in my opinion.

I would say, as good as Gaudreau and Monahan are, it is harder to judge how good someone playing with McDavid actually is, because he is an undisputed top 3 player in the league (and arguably the best), who plays the most important forward position in the lineup. He's a clear step up on Monahan, and while Gaudreau is not that far off in terms of offensive ability, he's also in the less impactful position. As a result I'd find it easier to believe that Maroon's numbers are being significantly goosed by his teammates than Ferland's, although they both naturally benefit to a degree from their teammates.

My point was more that players like Maroon and Ferland can not play in the top 6 and be effective unless they have something very skilled to play with. These aren't guys who are going to look very good playing with average 2nd line players who put up 40-50 points in a season.

Maroon has spent significant time away from McDavid this season. You're right though, McDavid is a much better player to play with than either Gaudreau or Monahan. Hence why I don't call Maroon a top 6 player because when he plays with someone like RNH (who is a good 2nd line player) he doesn't look all that great in a top 6 role. I think Maroon could get buy playing with a guy like Draisaitl when Draisaitl is on his game, but he has a ton of trouble with guys who can't create offence on their own every shift. He does the dirty work down low to protect pucks and keep plays alive so that a skilled player can make something happen, but without that skilled player they're not going to be creating much offence of their own.

As I've said though, thats kind of the reality of the salary cap NHL. Most teams need at least 1 or 2 of those guys in their top 6 just to fit under the salary cap.

 

[Baxterman]

You don't think 45 points makes for an excellent complementary player? (and yes, I am basing this primarily off of his performance this year). Frolik is a career 0.5 PPG player, and I'd say he's an excellent complementary player. I'd argue if you've got a guy who routinely puts up 50+ points in the current NHL, he's generally not a complementary player anymore.

Oh if Ferland was doing this on a 2nd or 3rd line sure but no I don't think that when you linemate are projecting to get around 90 and 75 points each that you getting 45 is that impressive.

I think it brings up the question if you are a contributor on that line because of what you bring or because the 3rd guy on that line is going to get points by default.

 

[HugginThePost]

I could have swore this was a Bennett thread??

Must be a mix up with the computer stuff......

......cross threaded with a Monahan vs Johnny thread.

IT should get it fixed......

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

No you can ignore it because Monahan gets more time because he vastly deserves it more than Ferland.

There isn't some conspiracy to keep Ferland from scoring he doesn't do jack squat to deserve any PP time.

It also ignores Monahans vastly superior play in every aspect and ability to actually make a pass to a fellow teammate something Ferland is still trying to learn how to do.

You'd think Monahan would be able to pot more goals/60 if he were so vastly superior. He failed to do so last year and is trailing Ferland in that metric again this year.

 

[Baxterman]

You'd think Monahan would be able to pot more goals/60 if he were so vastly superior. He failed to do so last year and is trailing Ferland in that metric again this year.

Not really because goals/60 will always favor the guy who plays less minutes because a single goal will have such a larger effect on the stat. Its probably why there is no award for top goals/60 leader and why goals/60 aren't used to decide games.

You would also think that if Ferland was such a stud at the goals/60 he could somehow translate that to on ice success but here were are with him still putting up pedestrian numbers for the umpteenth time in his professional career.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Not really because goals/60 will always favor the guy who plays less minutes because a single goal will have such a larger effect on the stat. Its probably why there is no award for top goals/60 leader and why goals/60 aren't used to decide games.

You would also think that if Ferland was such a stud at the goals/60 he could somehow translate that to on ice success but here were are with him still putting up pedestrian numbers for the umpteenth time in his professional career.

TIL that scoring at a 32 goal pace is "pedestrian".

Goals/60 will always favor the guy who scores more goals per minute of ice time.