Our power play was 4th in the league. I don't think it's an issue. If you're expecting #1 the Oilers have that spot pretty much wrapped up.
Salary Cap: Salary Cap Thread - The Dog Days of August
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PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
- May 22, 2015
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Hertl doesn't have the Power play production of Malkin, But he's a better 5v5 driver and an elite defensive forward and Malkin is not..
As an overall player Hertl is better. He's a 5v5 monster.
I'd say he's very easily as good as Point or Aho, but he's surrounded by garbage and plays for a team that gets Zero attention. Put him in Tampa or Boston and he will suddenly be in everyone's 10 best C lists.
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Big fan of Hertl but saying he's better than Malkin is out there.
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
- May 22, 2015
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Not really. do you think Point is better than Malkin? if so, you must agree that Hertl is too.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Hertl might be on the same level and Geno now, might. That’s probably a good debate. But he is nowhere close to the level Point is, let’s get real here. Point was doing some insane things last season and playoffs, regardless who he was playing with.
Given what Palmieri got, I’m expecting a 5-6 year, $5.5+ mil a year contract extension for Rust to be announced any day now….
Gurglesons
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Big Friggin Dummy
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2019
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I do think they'll try to move heaven and earth to re-sign Rust, for better or worse, but they won't do anything until Geno and Letang are sorted.
Zirakzigil
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Gurglesons
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70 pt pace is "crushing it"? He's a 1C. That should be the expected production especially when you are playing with the weapons on that team.
@AuroraBorealis - if we're talking Zucker's expected p/60 production this season, then I'd suggest looking at season averages since breaking into the NHL properly provide a more accurate and perhaps rosier picture. They run like this:
14/15 - 2.03
15/16 - 1.12
16/17 - 2.38
17/18 - 2.1
18/19 - 1.37
19/20 - 1.97
20/21 - 1.49
So his average of 1.76 is misleading as he's rarely near there. He's either a decent bit above or a decent bit below.
Now, yeah, the numbers suggest he's had a bit of regression in the last five years, but he's not reached the point at which we'd normally expect huge regression and we're just a season removed from flirting with 2 p/60. And I can't say when watching Zucker I found myself thinking "wow, he just can't do it" - he has hands, he has speed, and so on.
I feel like, providing we can get him a line with some chemistry and avoid disasters, there's not a lot of reason he can't be back around the 2 p/60 area again.
It would also seem to indicate that if he doesn't we can't expect much joy either.
14/15 - 2.03
15/16 - 1.12
16/17 - 2.38
17/18 - 2.1
18/19 - 1.37
19/20 - 1.97
20/21 - 1.49
So his average of 1.76 is misleading as he's rarely near there. He's either a decent bit above or a decent bit below.
Now, yeah, the numbers suggest he's had a bit of regression in the last five years, but he's not reached the point at which we'd normally expect huge regression and we're just a season removed from flirting with 2 p/60. And I can't say when watching Zucker I found myself thinking "wow, he just can't do it" - he has hands, he has speed, and so on.
I feel like, providing we can get him a line with some chemistry and avoid disasters, there's not a lot of reason he can't be back around the 2 p/60 area again.
It would also seem to indicate that if he doesn't we can't expect much joy either.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
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And if he gains too much weight then Kuzsnortsov has the solve.
Point's assist rate really fell this season at 5v5. Like, no complaints totals, still 1C, but not silly like they were. I'm curious as to why that would be the case if it's not Kucherov.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
That’s like saying Driasaitl isn’t as good away from McDavid. Yeah obviously his point totals would go down, doesn’t mean he’s not one of the best in the game without him though.
Gurglesons
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Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Over 30 goals, elite defensive play, goes up against the best every night. #1 centre on a back to back cup winning team? Yeah, I’d say he’s one of the best centres in the game.
K Fleur
Sacrifice
- Mar 28, 2014
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Point also has had no problem in the playoffs scoring against the team that most of our players can't figure out how to score against.
Maybe he's a bit of a product of Kucherov but he's also just awesome.
Maybe he's a bit of a product of Kucherov but he's also just awesome.
On the one hand, fair point.
On the other, that doesn't change the fact that Point's regular season production doesn't really qualify for crushing it after that fall. Not to the point where I'd accept it as evidence that Hertl's nowhere close to the player Point is, given they had the exact same ppg.
It was only our 1st line that couldn't score against them tbf.
edit: I wouldn't want to deny that Point is pretty awesome. But on some tier above the other 1Cs like Matthews/MacKinnon/Draisaitl/maybe Sid? I dunno about that.
And, well, Hertl paced for 30 goals last season too, and have better relative defensive stats...
*pause* I mean, maybe I'm missing something because I'm just stat watching, but why isn't there mad blood in the water at the prospect of Hertl getting traded?
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Gurglesons
Registered User
He was 12th in goals and 17th in points amongst centers last year. Point is very good, but I feel like he is getting the Toews treatment.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
How many centres would you take over Point right now? Because in my mind there is only 2 clear cut ones. McDavid and Mackinnon. After that it’s a few debatable ones and then no one else who’s really in the conversation. Point is what, a top 5 centre in the league at minimum?
Gurglesons
Registered User
Aho.
Crosby.
Barkov.
Matthews.
McDavid.
Drai.
MacKinnon.
Bergeron.
After that I probably put him with Tavares, ROR, Schief.
I think Point will get revealed this season tbh.
Well... I mean, I don't really watch enough other teams to truly answer this but just from crude stat watching, he's the joint 22nd highest centre by PPG, and I'd probably consider at least 10 of them without thinking, and I'd probably consider all the guys tied with him (Krecji/Eichel/Hertl/Malkin(ok, off by 0.01)) if fit too. Like, if O'Reilly is a higher points scorer without Tarasenko than Point is without Kucherov, and is obviously an elite defensive player and has won the cup and was pacing at 35 goals, why would I definitely have Point ahead of him?
Maybe if I watched more of the guys I'd feel differently, but just based on last season and stats, the only reason I'd have Point as a top 5 centre is if I put a heavy emphasis on playoff performance, and given that I believe playoffs are at least 50% a gongshow at the best of times, I probably don't...
Gurglesons
Registered User
Cutting edge GM Joe Sakic just signed JJ to a PTO.
Guess Sully and Sid got to MacK @Honour Over Glory
Guess Sully and Sid got to MacK @Honour Over Glory
What happens to Colorado's practices if MacKinnon stops every time he gets a bad pass with JJ on the ice?
Khelandros
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- Feb 12, 2019
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Actually, the stats say that Draisaitl elevates McDavid, not the other way around.
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