Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Monday, February 26

[Pens x]

For clarification’s sake, does anyone think we don’t improve our Cup chances considerably if we were to acquire Brassard over the 4C options mentioned?

That is not saying much considering the lack of quality that represents the other options mentioned.

But yea, Brassard is significantly better than Sheahan and all of the other crappy centers mentioned, offensively speaking.

We should already have a capable 4C on our team, why this is just being addressed now is strange.

 

[Nakawick]

We should already have a capable 4C on our team, why this is just being addressed now is pathetic.

We do have one of those.

 

[deakka]

We do have one of those.

Who? Sheahan is our 3rd center, not 4th

 

[DesertPenguin]

As others have said, the issue is no longer whether Sheahan is a capable 3C (he is), but whether he fits with Kessel so we can split up the big 3. Kessel and Malkin together is good, but not as good as when they are both driving their own lines.

Maybe the problem isn't so much that Sheahan and Kessel don't fit, but that the LW to put with them hasn't been found yet. Guentzel isn't that player, but we've seen his potential when he's on and for that reason we can't boot him from the lineup.

Simon Crosby Sheary
Hagelin Malkin Hornqvist
3LW Sheahan Kessel
Guentzel (Cullen) Rust

Guentzel and Rust are on stand by if someone in the top 9 gets hurt or their game falls apart. Is there someone we could acquire for that 3LW that makes Sheahan/Kessel work? Alternatively would someone from elsewhere in the lineup work there, if we were to acquire another player for that spot? Does Kane on Crosby's line free up Simon or Sheary for that 3LW? More than one way to skin this cat.

 

[cheesedanish87]

For clarification’s sake, does anyone think we don’t improve our Cup chances considerably if we were to acquire Brassard over the 4C options mentioned?

Its hard to say because if you acquire Brassard that means your getting rid of players off your roster.

If you add a 4th line center you don't have to subtract anyone from the roster.

 

[Ogrezilla]

HSL - you brought up a good point about Bones in the past thread. I don't think he was an elite 3C, but where he separated from the bunch was when he had multiple runs stepping up his game at the right time. Whether that was luck or whatever, who knows. He consistently turned it up when it mattered.

well, he turned it up when it mattered for us 50% of the time.

 

[Nakawick]

Who? Sheahan is our 3rd center, not 4th

We are waiting to unleash the nightmare Teddy Blueger.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For clarification’s sake, does anyone think we don’t improve our Cup chances considerably if we were to acquire Brassard over the 4C options mentioned?

I don't think so. As far as I can tell, I'm as much of a Sheahan fan as we have here. And I think plan A should be to upgrade 3C, or at the very list get a different 3C as good as Sheahan who is a better fit with Kessel. I'm calling new 3C our plan A. Where you and I seem to mostly disagree is that I give us higher chances than you do if we are forced to go with a different plan.

Out of every name I've heard, Brassard is easily my favorite.

Its hard to say because if you acquire Brassard that means your getting rid of players off your roster.

If you add a 4th line center you don't have to subtract anyone from the roster.

Obviously it does depend on the cost. But if that cost is Sheary, I'm in. I think the upgrade from Sheary to Brassard (which leads to Rowney to Sheahan as well) makes us better than upgrading from Rowney to someone like Shore, even though we downgrade at LW. Especially if it results in Sprong coming up and pushing Simon to LW.

 

[SEALBound]

For clarification’s sake, does anyone think we don’t improve our Cup chances considerably if we were to acquire Brassard over the 4C options mentioned?

Depends what we give up, I would say. Considering what I believe we would give up, I do believe Brassard helps our chances. Is that move necessary though, is what I may question.

Simon Crosby Sheary
Hagelin Malkin Hornqvist
3LW Sheahan Kessel
Guentzel (Cullen) Rust

Guentzel and Rust are on stand by if someone in the top 9 gets hurt or their game falls apart. Is there someone we could acquire for that 3LW that makes Sheahan/Kessel work? Alternatively would someone from elsewhere in the lineup work there, if we were to acquire another player for that spot? Does Kane on Crosby's line free up Simon or Sheary for that 3LW? More than one way to skin this cat.

I think if you have Jake and Rusty on the 4th line, you're better off putting Kessel with Malkin and splitting bottom 6 line time. My dream right now is Grabner so I will use him as the example. Assume we pick up Cullen too.

Simon-Sid-Sheary
Hags-Geno-Kessel
Grabner-Sheahan-Rust
Guentzel-Cullen-Hornqvist

19-19-16-16.

Otherwise, you are not using everyone effectively enough.

We are waiting to unleash the nightmare Teddy Blueger.

Zero reason why he shouldn't get in tonight for a game. Play him or send him down.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It sucks that they haven't given Blueger a chance yet, I fully believe he can be that skilled defensive 4C that the Penguins need. I don't know why they tried Dea before him, it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ColePens]

Why is Sheahan's projected ice time so low? He's doing well with like 15 minutes TOI, why are we bumping him down to 11?

You missed the point by a hot country mile.

Sid/Geno - PP/Offensive zone/Regular shifts
Sheahan - D-zone/PK/Regular shifts split with skilled 4C
4C - More neutral/o-zone and split shifts with Kessel as winger.

This isn't taking anything away from Sheahan. In the games where we are up, he can come out and do his thing defensively/PK/double shift more than the other C we obtain. If we are down in a game, he takes his normal shift, yet more limited, and we try to get Kessel running 3 lines.

This is situational hockey we are talking here. It will fluctuate for everyone. The thing is we are getting Kessel shifts w/ G and his own line. We are getting Sheahan out in places where he thrives/succeeds very well. Will be be slightly down in minutes? Maybe. Depends on the game.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Depends what we give up, I would say. Considering what I believe we would give up, I do believe Brassard helps our chances. Is that move necessary though, is what I may question.



I think if you have Jake and Rusty on the 4th line, you're better off putting Kessel with Malkin and splitting bottom 6 line time. My dream right now is Grabner so I will use him as the example. Assume we pick up Cullen too.

Simon-Sid-Sheary
Hags-Geno-Kessel
Grabner-Sheahan-Rust
Guentzel-Cullen-Hornqvist

19-19-16-16.

Otherwise, you are not using everyone effectively enough.



Zero reason why he shouldn't get in tonight for a game. Play him or send him down.

Your breakdown adds up to a 70 minute game and doesnt consider PP/PK.

 

[Pens x]

A small part of me still has hope that JR swoops in at the last minute and grabs a proper 3C. This bs about thinking RS is a legit 3C is hopefully just one giant bluff.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

A small part of me still has hope that JR swoops in at the last minute and grabs a proper 3C. This bs about thinking RS is a legit 3C is hopefully just one giant bluff.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Why are we focused on Sheahan when ROWNEY is the biggest problem on the roster??? Fix that first. He is not an NHL player, in fact he's barely an AHL player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But....but...SHEAHAN ISN'T A 3C BECAUSE I SAY SO!

 

[SEALBound]

Your breakdown adds up to a 70 minute game and doesnt consider PP/PK.

How long are games normally? I only look at the stat sheet after the games to determine who played well and who didn't.

True it doesn't account for PP/PK but given how widely that can vary, you can't really plan on it. You adjust in game based on who PP or PK's a lot and adjust accordingly.

 

[SEALBound]

But....but...SHEAHAN ISN'T A 3C BECAUSE I SAY SO!

He only had 2 goals last year with the Detroit Red Wings!

 

[Empoleon8771]

You missed the point by a hot country mile.

Sid/Geno - PP/Offensive zone/Regular shifts
Sheahan - D-zone/PK/Regular shifts split with skilled 4C
4C - More neutral/o-zone and split shifts with Kessel as winger.

This isn't taking anything away from Sheahan. In the games where we are up, he can come out and do his thing defensively/PK/double shift more than the other C we obtain. If we are down in a game, he takes his normal shift, yet more limited, and we try to get Kessel running 3 lines.

This is situational hockey we are talking here. It will fluctuate for everyone. The thing is we are getting Kessel shifts w/ G and his own line. We are getting Sheahan out in places where he thrives/succeeds very well. Will be be slightly down in minutes? Maybe. Depends on the game.

I feel like this strategy would dramatically hurt line chemistry and wouldn't do much benefit, to be honest. Unless you strike gold with a 4C, you're not going to get a 4th line center that fits dramatically better with Kessel than Sheahan does. I'd much rather just try to find line combinations that work, rather than juggle around with the lineup and give more minutes to certain players in certain games. If you want to line juggle, the thing that makes more sense to me is to put Kessel and Malkin together if you need a goal, and you have Sheahan and Kessel together on the 3rd line for other situations.

If Kessel and Sheahan are that prohibitively bad together than you have to do some extreme line juggling like that, just play Kessel with Malkin. I don't buy that they are so bad together that you can't play them together, and neither does Rutherford apparently.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I don't think so. As far as I can tell, I'm as much of a Sheahan fan as we have here. And I think plan A should be to upgrade 3C, or at the very list get a different 3C as good as Sheahan who is a better fit with Kessel. I'm calling new 3C our plan A. Where you and I seem to mostly disagree is that I give us higher chances than you do if we are forced to go with a different plan.

Out of every name I've heard, Brassard is easily my favorite

Well, he's by far the best center potentially available, so mine too. If the deal was built around Sheary, then fine. But we all know they will want Sprong. They are cheap, and Sprong is cheap. Riptide covered this the other night, but if we bring in Brassard, we need Sprong to offset his cap hit and fill out our top 9. But they will certainly demand Sprong. And even so, can we give them the best package?

Just like Duchene, we will be outbid by playoff teams that need a 2C (or 1C) for Brassard. So the question then is, do we bring in a guy with some offensive ability that can play with skilled guys like Plekanec, or do we bring in a more defensive guy / more traditional 4C.

Considering the costs of all involved, I'd most like to just bring Cullen back for cheap if at all possible, and then see if we can find a good fit (not a big name like Kane) LW to play with Kessel on a 3rd line, either centered by Cullen or Sheahan. The assets I'd be willing to send out are Sheary, Hunwick, Vancouver's 4th, our (2) 5th round picks, or our 2nd rounder if we want to reach up to a better LW. And of course B level prospects other than Bengtsson, Gus, Jarry. Ideally our deadline looks like this for me:

Hunwick to TOR for 4th
Cullen to PIT for 4th + B prospect
Maroon, McGinn, similar gritty LW to PIT for picks + prospect (Maroon will cost more, McGinn less)
Wild card (probably won't happen): Sheary out for grittier LW or C with some control or years under contract

 

[UnrealMachine]

But....but...SHEAHAN ISN'T A 3C BECAUSE I SAY SO!

LOL, you were on the "find a better/real 3C" train as recently as 2 weeks ago. See you at the next stop. But don't take my word for it:

Yeah, I'd probably do Sheary for Sissons. Sacrifice some upside to bring in a guy you know fills a need for you. I'd be concerned about whether Sissons would be like Sheahan as the 3C (aka not fit with skill players), but that's not something you can predict that much right now.

Here's another option, why not bring in both Letestu and Cullen? It certainly wouldn't be expensive, you're probably only looking at something like Rowney and a 3rd in value to bring in those 2 guys. I think it works with the cap, especially if Edmonton retains on Letestu. You get a more skilled safety net to fall back on if Cullen can't handle the 3C role. Whichever one of Cullen or Letestu wouldn't be playing center would be taking Kuhnhackl's spot, which means you'd probably feel safer with playing the 4th line more per game (I'd be more comfortable playing Letestu 11 minutes a night than Kuhnhackl 11 minutes a nihgt). Letestu is a great special teams player, so you can further limit Cullen's minutes there and just allow him to just play at ES. Bringing in both also allows the Penguins to not have to double shift Crosby or Malkin to keep Cullen's minutes down, since you can give Letestu a couple of shifts at center. It's certainly a viable though, just end up running with:

Simon-Crosby-Sheary
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Cullen-Kessel
Letestu-Sheahan-Rust

I don't have a problem with that forward lineup, even though you don't have a real 3C.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Can someone better versed in stats post Sheahan's WOWY numbers? His production seems so random that it's hard to tell who/if he has actual chemistry with (anyone).

 

[SEALBound]

Hunwick to TOR for 4th
Cullen to PIT for 4th + B prospect
Maroon, McGinn, similar gritty LW to PIT for picks + prospect (Maroon will cost more, McGinn less)
Wild card (probably won't happen): Sheary out for grittier LW or C with some control or years under contract

Honestly, I think that's too many moves. Three new guys on the roster while only having a solid month or month and a half to figure out who goes with who and to gain chemistry...that's a tall order.

Bring in a 4C and a wing who fits the team at MOST. To be honest, I think you find a 3/4C and call it a day.

Simon-Sid-Sheary
Hags-Geno-Horny
Jake-Sheahan-Kessel
Rust-Cullen-Sprong/Kuhn/Reaves/etc

Will be enough to be a major cup contender. It's not always about adding meat and muscle and assets at the TDL...it's much more about the players we do have playing like they can. No McGinn or Maroon depth player it taken us to the Cup if Sid, Geno, or Kessel suddenly go cold.

 

[HandshakeLine]

There's nothing wrong with finding a better 3C. Hell, that would be prudent because then you have a legit 4C who can move up if injuries strike.

But acting like Bonino and Sheahan are miles away is silly. And on top of that, acting like Bonino is the creme-de-la-creme of 3Cs is even sillier.

 

[Riptide]

Trading Hunwick and waiving Rowney would be an insane start in the next 2 weeks. Seriously. Then it comes to adding depth.

The one thing I have a bad feeling about is that Reaves is guaranteed to start in the playoffs. I was listening to Hockey Central podcast last night and they brought up that a big guy who "protects" hasn't had any role in the playoffs for a long time. The idea was explaining why players like Kapanen is a good play in the bottom 6 w/ speed/youth over guys like Matt Martin who don't deserve it. They mentioned Reaves in this, too.

I doubt you'll be that lucky. Coachs/GMs love guys who can play C/W are RHS and win draws. The odds of us waiting him are slim to none.

I think that's more dependent on who we play. IF we're playing Washington and Philly in the first two rounds... I could easily see Reaves getting games. Maybe not every game... but he'll certainly be getting some.