Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Man, Oh, Man, Oh, Friend of Mine. All Good Things in All Good Time

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I forget about the WC teams - Tanner Pearson is a guy I think is a perfect match for this team.

I'd be curious about him too, I think LA would want a top 4D for him if they were to start shopping. I wonder if Dumoulin for Pearson would get it done, with some minor pieces involved likely in the off season of course. I mean if you do it now, it wouldn't be terrible, but then you'd have to hope Cole and Sullivan patched their crap up.

But with Carter returning at some point during the season, I don't think they want to keep Pearson away from Carter.
 

Pens x

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I’m thrilled that they are playing well. I guess those who repeatedly claimed their poor plays was all fatigue were wrong.

I just hope JR doesn’t get a false sense of security after how they’ve been playing well, and end up settling on a guy like Letestu as the only move before the deadline.

Euther way, at least they’ve been fun to watch recently.
 

Tom Hanks

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I hear this but at the same time, do we need the cap space they take up? And are we gonna have a better defence for that trade?

I'd like to trade Hunwick for another project as that's the only way we're getting decent value dmen anytime soon. Other than that I don't see good moves.

We don’t need the cap space but I’d rather invest that extra money into the forwards or have a better D instead of having an average D who right now is the 2nd most expensive.

Trading Letang might not get you a better D on paper but likely better on the ice. Moving him, Hunwick and letting Cole go moves 9.6 mil. See what Letang brings back and hopefully someone gives you .75c on the dollar for him. This season he can’t/won’t buy in.
 

Tom Hanks

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I’m thrilled that they are playing well. I guess those who repeatedly claimed their poor plays was all fatigue were wrong.

I just hope JR doesn’t get a false sense of security after how they’ve been playing well, and end up settling on a guy like Letestu as the only move before the deadline.

Euther way, at least they’ve been fun to watch recently.

Did any really say it was all fatigue? There were a number of factors. Fatigue was one of them.
 
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Tender Rip

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I'd be curious about him too, I think LA would want a top 4D for him if they were to start shopping. I wonder if Dumoulin for Pearson would get it done, with some minor pieces involved likely in the off season of course. I mean if you do it now, it wouldn't be terrible, but then you'd have to hope Cole and Sullivan patched their crap up.

This is just silly in my view. Whatever moderate upgrade Pearson could be said to be over our LW options is as nothing to the gaping hole Dumoulin would leave on D. And no, I do not care that Dumo produces no points. I very much care that he has been able to play 20+ top pairing minutes per night in the playoffs.
 
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Peat

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We don’t need the cap space but I’d rather invest that extra money into the forwards or have a better D instead of having an average D who right now is the 2nd most expensive.

Trading Letang might not get you a better D on paper but likely better on the ice. Moving him, Hunwick and letting Cole go moves 9.6 mil. See what Letang brings back and hopefully someone gives you .75c on the dollar for him. This season he can’t/won’t buy in.

Who wouldn't? But, much as I like the theory, I struggle to see it coming off in practice. We don't have the trade chips (bar Letang) to get better dmen unless we win a gamble on a reclamation project; a guy like Cole might get 4m in UFA so you don't get value that way. Things might go easier hunting depth forwards on both fronts, but we've got a lot of depth forwards anyway, so do we really need someone unless they're a bit special (and probably correspondingly valued, so probably unavailable to us)?

Trading Letang would change that a lot, sure. But Rutherford's already talked about that (and Cole) and not liked the answer. Maybe in the Summer its different... but then maybe his value has plummeted, or maybe he's back in form. And even if you can trade him, you need a good RH PMD in the line stat (or a good RH dman and a LH PMD) and that bit could be real difficult. And also chews up most of the money you wanted for forwards anyway.
 

Tender Rip

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Trading Letang is not an in-season option. Everyone should just save their keyboards on that.

In the Summer... you see if there are any news on Doughty or Karlsson signing. If they aren't, you might interest either team with Letang as a signed cost-certain replacement. More so if he finds himself again.
Or, as mentioned before, if you can grab John Carlson in free agency, you can trade Letang for a pretty boat load of futures.

But until then he remains the biggest joker for our potential cup chances. A huge booster for the team if he comes round to form, and a potential one man calamity that could cost us everything if he plays like now.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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We don't have to replace Letang with an all-star defenseman. We just have to go from a top-heavy blueline to a more blueline by committee. We'd need much better than Hunwick and Cole. It'll be an adjustment, but I don't think it would crush this team nearly as much as people want to think. Letang's a really bad option to be the cornerstone of your blueline between his cap hit, injury issues and inconsistent play. That being said, I'd be absolutely astonished if we couldn't get a huge return for the guy (great roster player, very good prospect, 1st rounder). Give me a less talented/top-end blueline but full of consistent, quality players over the high risk/high reward situation we have now where our blueline corps relies almost entirely on the performance/health of a guy as inconsistent and injury prone as Letang. And when I say injury prone, I don't mean like Beau Bennett. I mean injury prone due to constantly putting himself in horrendous positions to take these cheapshots and dangerous hits. If it hasn't changed after half a dozen concussions/neck injuries/etc. it's never gonna change. Let someone else worry about his health and performance while hoping he stabilizes his game and becomes the defenseman that we see once in a blue moon but people latch on to and sing the praises of, ignoring his crippling shortcomings.

This team needs to be fleshed out from top to bottom. We were successful because of depth in 2015-16 and we won entirely on the back of talent and timely performances in spite of our shortcomings in 2016-17. We need to fix the bottom six (3C, 4C), we need another scoring winger (youth, speed, goal-scorer), and we need to build a better blueline as a whole as opposed to building it with Letang as our linchpin using Dumo, Maatta, Schultz and Oleksiak as the start.

I've said time and time again that LV and Pitt weren't good trading partners bc they wouldn't want Cole
But I bet they'd want Letang

2 potential issues:
- Would they break up a winning combo to obtain a guy who's likely got tremendous value around the league
- Letang would have to waive for LV

Getting a guy like Schmidt and one of their C's would be tremendous for Pitt
 

WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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I've said time and time again that LV and Pitt weren't good trading partners bc they wouldn't want Cole
But I bet they'd want Letang

2 potential issues:
- Would they break up a winning combo to obtain a guy who's likely got tremendous value around the league
- Letang would have to waive for LV

Getting a guy like Schmidt and one of their C's would be tremendous for Pitt

No it wouldnt. Unless you assume Letangs gonna be the worst version of itself from here on out.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
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No it wouldnt. Unless you assume Letangs gonna be the worst version of itself from here on out.

I mean, that's not an impossibility. That's what the whole "Trade Letang" question boils down to, in essence. I get the "Don't Trade Letang" position quite well, but I think it's a mistake to completely write off the other position of that debate.

In the end, though, the coaching staff and front office have a better read on that situation because they're privy to the day-to-day stuff, the medical stuff, and the games. We just get the games and parts of the other two.
 
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Speaking Moistly

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Feb 19, 2013
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We don’t need the cap space but I’d rather invest that extra money into the forwards or have a better D instead of having an average D who right now is the 2nd most expensive.

Trading Letang might not get you a better D on paper but likely better on the ice. Moving him, Hunwick and letting Cole go moves 9.6 mil. See what Letang brings back and hopefully someone gives you .75c on the dollar for him. This season he can’t/won’t buy in.

The cost of the D vs the F isn’t a fair argument. The forwards have Sprong, Simon, Guentzel, Kuhnhackl, Rowney and Rust on ELCs or very cheap deals. It’s like comparing the F to the G, because the goaltending is the youngest position and costs and a Hagelin and change. This is what happens when you’re better at developing F and G in recent years and don’t have a Guentzel or Jarry coming through on D. They’re also carrying an extra D while looking for a trade.

Freaking out about the cap space allotted to which position needs to be expanded upon. There are other things to think about with the construction of the team but the cost of the D is disengenuous. Letang is a problem because he may never live up to that contract again, Cole is a problem because of whatever reason and Hunwick is a problem because he sucks.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Which goes directly against all the rumours on Cole's suitors.

Well there are rumors we're in on E Kane and probably about 10 other players too. Doesn't mean there's a fit

I still state LV isn't interested in Cole. They have a bunch of Dmen who are equally as good if not better than him.
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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Did any really say it was all fatigue? There were a number of factors. Fatigue was one of them.
Many people around here and the media constantly blamed fatigue as the reason they were struggling early in the season. I never bought that for a second.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
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This is just silly in my view. Whatever moderate upgrade Pearson could be said to be over our LW options is as nothing to the gaping hole Dumoulin would leave on D. And no, I do not care that Dumo produces no points. I very much care that he has been able to play 20+ top pairing minutes per night in the playoffs.

Yes it is silly. If you are trading Dumo or Maatta, it needs to be for a young, very good center.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
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And for all my frustrations with #58, I still cannot be an advocate for trading him. Last night was probably my peak frustration as he wasn't just being out muscled or out skated, he was specifically putting himself out of position in a must win game. His situational awareness was freaking AWFUL.

But the guy just has to figure it out. Trying to replace him just isn't going to happen and could really hurt the team. But if you asked me that question specifically when he was standing in front of the opposition's net with a 1-0 lead in a must win game... i would have cursed up and down and said trade him. :laugh:

The best case scenario is Letang becomes Letang again. That's the best value for the Pens.
 

Pens x

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Why? Mental and physical fatigue for sure played a role. Maybe not all of the reason, but a huge part.
It is because we iced a team that more resembled an AHL team than an NHL team in the beginning of the season. Our roster is far better right now than in October. If we can further improve our squad then this team could do some damage. So many people have turned a blind eye to the incompetence of management for the last 3 months and legitimately just concocted their own excuses as to why the team struggled instead of seeing the obvious.
 

Shady Machine

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I'd explore trading Letang at the draft, but I agree it's probably best to hang onto him. BUT, depending on what JR does before the deadline, Letang is the best piece to help reshape the roster to extend the window a bit.

If you can get a young stud 3C and top 4 dman + high end prospect or other piece, you may be better off moving him. Probably hard to get that return though if he keeps playing like this.
 

Harvey Birdman

…Need some law books, with pictures this time…
Oct 21, 2008
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Trading Letang is not an in-season option. Everyone should just save their keyboards on that.

In the Summer... you see if there are any news on Doughty or Karlsson signing. If they aren't, you might interest either team with Letang as a signed cost-certain replacement. More so if he finds himself again.
Or, as mentioned before, if you can grab John Carlson in free agency, you can trade Letang for a pretty boat load of futures.

But until then he remains the biggest joker for our potential cup chances. A huge booster for the team if he comes round to form, and a potential one man calamity that could cost us everything if he plays like now.
100% agree, in season is not the time to trade Letang. That is a move done in the off season.
 

Tom Hanks

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The cost of the D vs the F isn’t a fair argument. The forwards have Sprong, Simon, Guentzel, Kuhnhackl, Rowney and Rust on ELCs or very cheap deals. It’s like comparing the F to the G, because the goaltending is the youngest position and costs and a Hagelin and change. This is what happens when you’re better at developing F and G in recent years and don’t have a Guentzel or Jarry coming through on D. They’re also carrying an extra D while looking for a trade.

Freaking out about the cap space allotted to which position needs to be expanded upon. There are other things to think about with the construction of the team but the cost of the D is disengenuous. Letang is a problem because he may never live up to that contract again, Cole is a problem because of whatever reason and Hunwick is a problem because he sucks.

Wasn’t freaking out about cap space but if you are one of the most expensive D in the league you should be really good. If they were really good I wouldn’t say anything .

The fact that our game is built on our forwards is why if we are going to have an average D, I want our forwards to be even better.

This is all for next summer. Sprong and Simon haven’t played many games and are fairly new. Rowney should not be on the team and Kuhnhackl is a 4th liner and paid accordingly. Rust won’t as cheap next season.

You can have a few more cheaper players at forward as their are more positions and more places to hide if it doesn’t go well. There is less room for error on D. 4th liners shouldn’t get much. Having Sid and Geno allows us to have cheap young guys while still having success. They can carry guys like Guentzel, Sprong and Simon through any difficulties young players have. Our 5 and 6th D are paid 4.35 mil and they aren’t any good right now.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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Pens really need the NYR to lose for standings reasons and trade reasons.

If Nash and Grabner are on the trade market that would help lower prices on some of these available forwards.
 

Tom Hanks

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It is because we iced a team that more resembled an AHL team than an NHL team in the beginning of the season. Our roster is far better right now than in October. If we can further improve our squad then this team could do some damage. So many people have turned a blind eye to the incompetence of management for the last 3 months and legitimately just concocted their own excuses as to why the team struggled instead of seeing the obvious.

Go look at the schedule for the first 20 games and look where they were played plus how many back to backs.

Take particular note of games 11-20. You’ll understand why they were fatigued.

Fatigue wasn’t the only thing though.
 
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