Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Everybody's Up In Trees, Feeding Pigeons Out On A Limb

[KIRK]

In response to cheese, this is what my first thought was. Teams were interested in Cole, but JR just wouldn't trade him if Cole didn't ask to leave. This isn't EHM, where teams making players available means they have less trade value. It doesn't make sense for his value to become low just because he asked for a trade, the only change it would have in his value is that he's available. The Penguins don't have to trade him, I really don't see why Cole would be upset to stay if he's playing. He just doesn't want to potentially hurt his next contract by sitting as a healthy scratch.

Big point here.

 

[KIRK]

Cole getting shopped as per his agent's request is different than teams cold calling JR in hopes of landing him.

Exactly. I would much rather have teams pursuing Cole more than Cole's agent pursuing teams if they want him. This really hinders his value.

On the other hand, in terms of leverage, better Cole's agent go to team's saying he's available than JR do it.

 

[Ryder71]

I just hope this situation doesn't disintegrate and become a circus ala Duchene. It's way too early for that but........

 

[Shady Machine]

On the other hand, in terms of leverage, better Cole's agent go to team's saying he's available than JR do it.

Is this your understanding of how things went (as in, Cole's representation is pushing trade talks vs JR)?

 

[cheesedanish87]

Why, is Cole suddenly worth less because he's available in a trade?

I mean what do you think Cole is worth?

IMO hes a 4/5 def that is a rental def

Pens gave up a 2nd round pick for Hainsey at 50% salary, Is Cole worth more then that?

 

[KIRK]

Is this your understanding of how things went (as in, Cole's representation is pushing trade talks vs JR)?

That's the most likely scenario, logically speaking, but nobody from whom I typically derive an understanding can say with 100% certainty.

 

[Shady Machine]

I just hope this situation doesn't disintegrate and become a circus ala Duchene. It's way too early for that but........

The good news is:

1. Cole is nowhere near the player Duchene is so media won't care much outside of Pittsburgh
2. Cole is a UFA in July, so his push to be traded won't last as long as he knows he will be gone at the end of the year.

The only counter point is that Cole as a continual healthy scratch might not makes things fun for Sully and Co behind the scenes.

 

[Shady Machine]

I mean what do you think Cole is worth?

IMO hes a 4/5 def that is a rental def

Pens gave up a 2nd round pick for Hainsey at 50% salary, Is Cole worth more then that?

Yes because he's willing to talk extension. If he's signing a 4-5 year extension with the team he's traded to, he's worth a rental 3C or a signed 3C with a plus.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean what do you think Cole is worth?

IMO hes a 4/5 def that is a rental def

Pens gave up a 2nd round pick for Hainsey at 50% salary, Is Cole worth more then that?

Cole won't be traded as a rental defenseman, he'll probably be traded in a sign and trade type of deal. I fully believe some team is going to look at his play last year and conclude he can be a reliable #4 for them, and they'll pay him accordingly.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yes because he's willing to talk extension. If he's signing a 4-5 year extension with the team he's traded to, he's worth a rental 3C or a signed 3C with a plus.

He's also a two time Cup champion in his prime vs Hainsey who was a solid vet on the down swing of his career who hasn't won a Cup yet.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's the most likely scenario, logically speaking, but nobody from whom I typically derive an understanding can say with 100% certainty.

Gotcha thanks.

 

[Ryder71]

The good news is:

1. Cole is nowhere near the player Duchene is so media won't care much outside of Pittsburgh
2. Cole is a UFA in July, so his push to be traded won't last as long as he knows he will be gone at the end of the year.

The only counter point is that Cole as a continual healthy scratch might not makes things fun for Sully and Co behind the scenes.

I agree Cole is nowhere near the level or player that Duchene is. My point however is Sully made him a healthy scratch before. So maybe the accumulative affect of these things causes tension.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Yes because he's willing to talk extension. If he's signing a 4-5 year extension with the team he's traded to, he's worth a rental 3C or a signed 3C with a plus.

I agree that hes worth more if hes signs an extension, but do we even know if his agent is doing that?

We know his agent is talking to other teams, but he might just be trying to find a trade partner to get Cole out of Pittsburgh.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I agree that hes worth more if hes signs an extension, but do we even know if his agent is doing that?

We know his agent is talking to other teams, but he might just be trying to find a trade partner to get Cole out of Pittsburgh.

We're not trading Cole for a late 2nd/3rd, then turning around and trading that pick away plus some for a Hainsey type defender at the deadline. The whole point of this is not to suit Cole, it's to improve the Pens. If no one offers us something substantial, then he simply won't be traded and he'll be back in the lineup as soon as there's an injury, so within a week or two.

 

[Lustaf]

According to Drager what happened was

Cole was pissed when he first got scratched

Cole's agent reached out to JR to ask for a trade

JR was ok with that request and allowed Cole's agent to talk to other teams about a trade.

So basically Cole is the one who asked for the trade because he was unhappy about being a scratch.

Seriously?

I guess I would get pissed off if I was the one getting scratched when I have to watch Letang play the way he has all season long and still get treated like royalty.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree Cole is nowhere near the level or player that Duchene is. My point however is Sully made him a healthy scratch before. So maybe the accumulative affect of these things causes tension.

Dude's a 3rd pairing d-man. Sometimes 3rd pairing d-men get scratched.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Seriously?

I guess I would get pissed off if I was the one getting scratched when I have to watch Letang play the way he has all season long and still get treated like royalty.

Are you suggesting that it should be Letang out instead of Cole? Letang at his worst is still a better player than Ian f***ing Cole.

 

[Gurglesons]

Two totally different scenarios. Cole is in a contract year, and getting healthy-scratched while being the least of this teams concerns probably didn't sit well with him. Remember he also watched Letang spend a month costing this team valuable points all by himself.

Not saying I agree with Cole one way or the other, but they're two totally different things.

Letang was not the only issue with our D.

Cole was a disaster leading up to his healthy scratch and a leading time muncher on our PK which was equally as bad.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He's also a two time Cup champion in his prime vs Hainsey who was a solid vet on the down swing of his career who hasn't won a Cup yet.

Actually he had zero playoff experience...

 

[canadianguy77]

Letang was not the only issue with our D.

Cole was a disaster leading up to his healthy scratch and a leading time muncher on our PK which was equally as bad.

Cole didn't play well in a few games. Letang was costing this team points in a lot of close games all by himself. I don't care if you're his biggest cheerleader or not, that had to have been apparent you.

 

[Riptide]

I mean what do you think Cole is worth?

IMO hes a 4/5 def that is a rental def

Pens gave up a 2nd round pick for Hainsey at 50% salary, Is Cole worth more then that?

He's only a rental if someone doesn't want to extend him. Rutherford has given his agent permission to talk to other GMs... which means extensions can be negotiated. Not saying it guarantee's anything, but it means he doesn't have to be a rental to a PO team - he could just be someone who a GM see's as making his team better.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cole didn't play well in a few games. Letang was costing this team points in a lot of close games all by himself. I don't care if you're his biggest cheerleader or not, that had to have been apparent you.

I’ll take the defenseman that is 3 pts off the league lead “that is actively costing us games” versus Ian “I’ve been healthy scratched every year I’ve been in the NHL.”

Letang at his worst is still a top twenty defenseman despite what a bunch of people on here with bias want to say.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cole didn't play well in a few games. Letang was costing this team points in a lot of close games all by himself. I don't care if you're his biggest cheerleader or not, that had to have been apparent you.

and if we told Cole he had to play 25 minutes a night, he would have been losing us way more than Letang ever did.

I like Cole. He's a solid 3rd pairing guy who can move up in a pinch. But he's a 3rd pairing guy. That means he is on the edge of getting scratched. If he's playing badly, you scratch him. If Letang is playing badly, you should probably cut his minutes.

 

[billybudd]

If no one offers us something substantial, then he simply won't be traded and he'll be back in the lineup as soon as there's an injury, so within a week or two.

I don't really think this is an option. You can't scratch a guy who shouldn't be scratched during a contract year, tell newspapers you'll be "trading him within a week" and then just say "whoopsie." Cole would be massively aggravated...probably distractingly so...and for good reason.

 

[Lustaf]

Are you suggesting that it should be Letang out instead of Cole? Letang at his worst is still a better player than Ian ****ing Cole.

No, but I believe Letang needs to be held accountable and should have had his minutes limited more and off the top PP unit.
Those are all common thoughts around here so I'm not breaking new ground.