Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Everybody's Up In Trees, Feeding Pigeons Out On A Limb

[Andy99]

According to Drager what happened was

Cole was pissed when he first got scratched

Cole's agent reached out to JR to ask for a trade

JR was ok with that request and allowed Cole's agent to talk to other teams about a trade.

So basically Cole is the one who asked for the trade because he was unhappy about being a scratch.

That's disappointing. Likely affects the return. Confirmation perhaps that the Friedman quote was a warning from JR that he won't go without a good return

 

[Ryder71]

According to Drager what happened was

Cole was pissed when he first got scratched

Cole's agent reached out to JR to ask for a trade

JR was ok with that request and allowed Cole's agent to talk to other teams about a trade.

So basically Cole is the one who asked for the trade because he was unhappy about being a scratch.

If that's the case, that can't be a good selling point or enhance his value much.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

It's not going to be Karlsson if the Penguins trade with Vegas. I think it's going to be Eakin if I had to guess. I think Karlsson is way too good for Vegas to trade, Haula is playing too well and has too good of a contract to trade and Lindberg isn't quite good enough for the Penguins to trade Cole for. But Eakin, I think that makes a ton of sense. Eakin has basically everything you want out of a 3C, he's peak Hagelin if Hagelin played center. His possession stats are mediocre, but he gets a ton of ES points, is very reliable defensively, kills penalties and is laser fast. He'd be a good target for the 3C spot, he's just as good as Bonino is. It's just a question of how do you fit his $3.85 million cap hit here? That's fair for him, but that's pricey for the Penguins.

The nice thing about Eakin too is that he can play wing, so if Sheahan suddenly explodes into a 3C, you can have Eakin on LW with Kessel and have that wing duo be really effective. My concern is if he ages similarly to Hagelin. Hagelin fell off at age 28, Eakin will be 28 in the last year of his contract.

I tend to agree, just having trouble figuring out something that works with VGK. I'd love Eakin, he plays our style, but that cap hit. Does VGK retain a big chunk in order to get Ian Cole? I just don't see that. It would make more sense if Cole wasn't in the deal at all.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dreger's track record has been spotty, but that progression makes sense. Cole asked for a trade and JR basically thought "he's a valuable trade chip and he wants out, so might as well trade him for some help". However, I also believe that teams are still very interested in Cole. I don't think that affects the return, it just means that JR isn't trading him out of the blue. I don't think the real world is like EHM, where a player asking for a trade and putting him on the block makes him less valuable. I think it just means JR wouldn't normally be shopping him if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.

The Penguins won't trade him if the return isn't really good. I really doubt that Cole is going to have an issue with staying with the Penguins for the rest of the year, he's going to get back in the lineup.

 

[cheesedanish87]

This actually makes a lot of sense. This likely means that teams aren't lining up for Ian Cole.

Yeah, that's kind of what i think as well.

Their might not be much of a market for Cole.

 

[Gurglesons]

According to Drager what happened was

Cole was pissed when he first got scratched

Cole's agent reached out to JR to ask for a trade

JR was ok with that request and allowed Cole's agent to talk to other teams about a trade.

So basically Cole is the one who asked for the trade because he was unhappy about being a scratch.

Go get bent Cole. I see Hagelin as a similar player. He hasn’t even improved since his scratch, but he towed the line.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, that's kind of what i think as well.

Their might not be much of a market for Cole.

Based on what, though? Cole asking for a trade doesn't mean teams aren't interested in him.

Mackey has already given 3 teams that are serious contenders for Cole right now. Mackey has also said that Cole's contract is expected to more than double in free agency. What basis do people have to say that there aren't teams interested in Cole? Cole initiating this by asking for a trade doesn't mean other teams aren't interested in him. The only difference that Cole asking for a trade makes is that I don't know if JR would move him if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm not a big fan of Eakin. I sincerely hope it's not him. He's not terrible and is good densively and on faceoffs, but I just don't like his offensive acumen or his salary. I consider him a weak number three.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

We will have to add a very big + to Cole to get Karlsson. Dude has 13 goals and 22 points in 22 games. IMO, it would have to be at least Cole + 1st and probably more.

Yeah I know it doesn't make sense. I really wanted Karlsson this summer as a low-risk deal.

 

[Riptide]

It's not going to be Karlsson if the Penguins trade with Vegas. I think it's going to be Eakin if I had to guess. I think Karlsson is way too good for Vegas to trade, Haula is playing too well and has too good of a contract to trade and Lindberg isn't quite good enough for the Penguins to trade Cole for. But Eakin, I think that makes a ton of sense. Eakin has basically everything you want out of a 3C, he's peak Hagelin if Hagelin played center. His possession stats are mediocre, but he gets a ton of ES points, is very reliable defensively, kills penalties and is laser fast. He'd be a good target for the 3C spot, he's just as good as Bonino is. It's just a question of how do you fit his $3.85 million cap hit here? That's fair for him, but that's pricey for the Penguins.

The nice thing about Eakin too is that he can play wing, so if Sheahan suddenly explodes into a 3C, you can have Eakin on LW with Kessel and have that wing duo be really effective. My concern is if he ages similarly to Hagelin. Hagelin fell off at age 28, Eakin will be 28 in the last year of his contract.

LV has played 22 games... or 27% of their season. Meaning LV has already paid 1.03m of Eakin's contract. So for this year we wouldn't be fitting in 3.85m, but something a lot closer to 2.8m. Cole makes 2.1m. Subtract the 31.7% we've already paid him, and we'd be moving out a cap hit of ~1.435m. The difference? 1.365m. Without DeSmith on the roster, we have roughly 1.3m in cap space.

And yes I'm aware that it's not games played, but "days on the roster" that calculate what % teams have already paid players - which means either PIT has paid less then 31.7% of Coles salary or LV has paid more then 27% of Eakins. Either way it means that the money is probably there to move those two 1-1 and we would still be cap compliant. Absurdly tight to the cap, but likely compliant.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Anyone remember Sergei Plotnikov when Sully was first coach?

Plotnikov asked to be traded or to go back to Russia and Sully refused to play him no matter how many players got injured.

He didn't want somebody in the lineup that he didn't think was fully invested in the team.

Obviously Plotnikov and Cole are different, Cole is an established player, but it will be interesting to see how Sully handles Cole if he stays on the team.

 

[Ryder71]

Again, if we're gonna deal with Vegas, I'd rather take a shot at Lindberg if we can't get Haula. Cap wise it would make more sense as well.

 

[Peat]

I tend to agree, just having trouble figuring out something that works with VGK. I'd love Eakin, he plays our style, but that cap hit. Does VGK retain a big chunk in order to get Ian Cole? I just don't see that. It would make more sense if Cole wasn't in the deal at all.

Cole + Hagelin + higher pick for Some inexpensive Vegas depth dman + Eakin + Lower Pick

Retain on the Vegas defensive guy if needed. That sounds workable to me.

 

[Riptide]

Hagelin fast? I don't know about that. He's a good skater though. He's proven last year was an outlier so I'm comfortable going after him, but I'd really want a bit of retention.

Agree about his versatility and it allows you to play Rowney-Sheahan on line 4 so you have 5 centers in the lineup. You can slide Sheahan up to 3C during the game and Eakin at wing to give a different look.

LV isn't going to retain on him unless we're really paying for it. They have 2 retention slots, this year and will have 3 again next year. Odds are they're going to be selling some of their guys, and those retention slots will be valuable for them going forward. Locking one down for the next two seasons doesn't make much sense unless they're being properly compensated for doing so.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I hope the move(s) JR makes will have the future in mind as well. It's important to strengthen the team moving forward as opposed to just for the rest of this season.

Sid and Geno will eventually slow down, if it's not happening already. It's vital that we give them more support and depth as the years roll on.

 

[canadianguy77]

Go get bent Cole. I see Hagelin as a similar player. He hasn’t even improved since his scratch, but he towed the line.

Two totally different scenarios. Cole is in a contract year, and getting healthy-scratched while being the least of this teams concerns probably didn't sit well with him. Remember he also watched Letang spend a month costing this team valuable points all by himself.

Not saying I agree with Cole one way or the other, but they're two totally different things.

 

[KIRK]

This actually makes a lot of sense. This likely means that teams aren't lining up for Ian Cole.

Why?

Several teams inquired this summer. They were told Cole's not available. So, now that he's available, by your telling, it likely means teams won't be lining up. Makes sense . . .

 

[cheesedanish87]

Based on what, though? Cole asking for a trade doesn't mean teams aren't interested in him.

Mackey has already given 3 teams that are serious contenders for Cole right now. Mackey has also said that Cole's contract is expected to more than double in free agency. What basis do people have to say that there aren't teams interested in Cole? Cole initiating this by asking for a trade doesn't mean other teams aren't interested in him. The only difference that Cole asking for a trade makes is that I don't know if JR would move him if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.

I mean I'm sure their are teams interested, I'm just not sure how much you could get for him now.

I was under the impression reading Mackey's story that the pens had major interest in Cole and that was the reason they scratched him, but i'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

 

[KIRK]

Dreger's track record has been spotty, but that progression makes sense. Cole asked for a trade and JR basically thought "he's a valuable trade chip and he wants out, so might as well trade him for some help". However, I also believe that teams are still very interested in Cole. I don't think that affects the return, it just means that JR isn't trading him out of the blue. I don't think the real world is like EHM, where a player asking for a trade and putting him on the block makes him less valuable. I think it just means JR wouldn't normally be shopping him if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.

The Penguins won't trade him if the return isn't really good. I really doubt that Cole is going to have an issue with staying with the Penguins for the rest of the year, he's going to get back in the lineup.

Which is part of the story McKenzie was fed.

 

[Ryder71]

Why?

Several teams inquired this summer. They were told Cole's not available. So, now that he's available, by your telling, it likely means teams won't be lining up. Makes sense . . .

In your opinion is Toronto still a likely suitor here?

 

[KIRK]

I mean I'm sure their are teams interested, I'm just not sure how much you could get for him now.

I was under the impression reading Mackey's story that the pens had major interest in Cole and that was the reason they scratched him, but i'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

Why, is Cole suddenly worth less because he's available in a trade?

 

[KIRK]

In your opinion, is Toronto still a likely suitor here?

I have no idea who the suitors are, although there's common sense reason to buy Toronto, among others including others on Mackey's list.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean I'm sure their are teams interested, I'm just not sure how much you could get for him now.

I was under the impression reading Mackey's story that the pens had major interest in Cole and that was the reason they scratched him, but i'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

Why?

Several teams inquired this summer. They were told Cole's not available. So, now that he's available, by your telling, it likely means teams won't be lining up. Makes sense . . .

In response to cheese, this is what my first thought was. Teams were interested in Cole, but JR just wouldn't trade him if Cole didn't ask to leave. This isn't EHM, where teams making players available means they have less trade value. It doesn't make sense for his value to become low just because he asked for a trade, the only change it would have in his value is that he's available. The Penguins don't have to trade him, I really don't see why Cole would be upset to stay if he's playing. He just doesn't want to potentially hurt his next contract by sitting as a healthy scratch.

 

[KIRK]

Remember, when you read a tweet from a local beat writer or a US/Canadian media figure, that person is the messenger conveying the message of one interested party. The exception might be McKenzie's tweets, which sounded like he asked potential suitors and he got the 'we're not paying an arm and a leg for a HS' and also JR where he got the 'we can always just keep him' angles. But, 99.9% of these things are never the whole story.

 

[Pens x]

Based on what, though? Cole asking for a trade doesn't mean teams aren't interested in him.

Mackey has already given 3 teams that are serious contenders for Cole right now. Mackey has also said that Cole's contract is expected to more than double in free agency. What basis do people have to say that there aren't teams interested in Cole? Cole initiating this by asking for a trade doesn't mean other teams aren't interested in him. The only difference that Cole asking for a trade makes is that I don't know if JR would move him if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.

Cole getting shopped as per his agent's request is different than teams cold calling JR in hopes of landing him.

I mean I'm sure their are teams interested, I'm just not sure how much you could get for him now.

I was under the impression reading Mackey's story that the pens had major interest in Cole and that was the reason they scratched him, but i'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

Exactly. I would much rather have teams pursuing Cole more than Cole's agent pursuing teams if they want him. This really hinders his value.