I'm not sold on Desmith either.
But Desmith and Jarry have kind of grown up together in the Pens organization and Desmith is always the one that's outplaying Jarry.
Well, two things about that. How much longer will DeSmith outplay Jarry when you take age into consideration? Jarry has been on a fast track in terms of goaltending development, so you would expect the more mature, more experienced DeSmith to perform better in the AHL.
Secondly, at the NHL level they have been fairly even imo. I just think if all things are equal, they prefer to have the younger Jarry play more games in the AHL and the more backup type in DeSmith sitting on the stool in the NHL.
Carolina is a very big analytical organization.
They would probably be one of the very few teams that would value Sheary over Rust because Sheary has better analytics.
Hags also has good analytics.
That was true of the old Carolina regime, but is it still the case? I think the 'Canes now are trying to become a far grittier team and are trying to change the culture over there under Waddell/Dudley/Brind'Amour. Sure, under Peters they were analytics darlings but he is now in Calgary and Carolina did NOTHING under Peters except underachieve.
Remember, Carolina really wanted Grubauer and was even offering a better deal, but Capitals didn't want to send him to the same division. I don't think JR has that fear with his moves.
I think in terms of other "future #1's available" Jarry has to be one of the best ones left that could be had.
Colorado is rocking a Varlamov/Grubauer tandem.
Carolina needs a better option than finding ****ty guys like Lack, Darling, re-hashing Ward over and over. Then the horrible ones like Peters, etc that just never panned out.
I think Jarry would hold a very high value for them.That and Skinner is 100% walking after this next season if he stays there.
I am not so sure. Grubauer is probably a lot more ready to be a No. 1, but even he landed in a spot where he can be a 1A with Varlamov. Carolina under the old regime, already tried to turn a backup into a starter (or even a 1A with Ward) but Darling failed miserably.
Secondly, the 'Canes have a goaltending prospect just as good as Jarry in Alex Nedeljkovic. He does not have as much NHL experience as Jarry, but Jarry did not have as much NHL experience as Grubauer either. I think if they can move Darling, Carolina will try to find a veteran to share the job with Nedeljkovic.
My thoughts on the subject:
-You know what you're getting with Rust. He is dependable. Not going to blow your socks off but he's not completely devoid of skill, despite some serious tunnel vision. Great speed, has scored big goals in the playoffs. Very good defensively, never hurts you. He can easily play up and down the lineup so there's versatility there. His production has also been getting better each year.
-Hagelin is the best defensively of the three. I can't remember him ever making a dumb play that hurt the Pens. By far the best speed which is the team's identity. Relentless on the forecheck and back check. Puts up 30-40 points but he runs VERY cold when he does enter his cold streaks. Only 1 year left and the most expensive of the three (I don't see Rust getting $4 million, maybe $3.5 million).
-Sheary has the most pure skill, that's pretty evident. When he's on he can produce much better than the other two and it's not even close. He's a real disruptive player on the forecheck, never stops moving his feet. Made huge strides in his 2nd year, mainly improving his balance and strength, then he regressed hard last season, falling over non-stop once again. Even still, he managed to put up 18 goals while being moved all over the lineup, so the skill is there. If he can get back to where he was in his 2nd season, he's a huge asset for $3 million a year. Having said that, he's terrible defensively, completely lost in his own zone. Probably the worst defensively on the team. As disruptive as he can be on the forecheck, he never is on the back check/in his own zone. He's also terribly weak along the boards. He needs to have a good defensive winger (and center) on his line or they bleed shots against.
We know Hags and Rust would have value around the league but would Sheary, or do other GMs think he's a product of Crosby?
Excellent post. I think the main point here is that none are untouchable and all three could (should) be offered around the league by JR if he is talking trades with others (and we have to assume that he is).
- with Rust, it is ALL about the contract. For Sheary money, he would be the one you would want most on this team. If he is looking for Hagelin money, I think he is a goner.
- most people on this board love Hagelin more than I do. I recognize his value, but while most here look at this player from what he can do in his own zone out, I still feel a forward's principle job in hockey is to create scoring chances (either for himself or his teammates) and Hagelin fails miserably in that element of the game. When you need a goal, I would trust Ryan Raves more, put it that way. But, he is a glue guy and complements just about any type of forward reasonably well and that has value. I just don't think he is worth re-signing for his current contract for multi years. He is very different but his worth is similar to Ruslan Fedotenko, whom we let go as well. But Fedotenko was a clutch scorer, something Hagelin can never be. Last point about Hagelin: if he goes, Rust has to stay.
- Sheary is definitely the most polarizing. Hell, I go from not being able to stand him to wondering if we can keep him pretty much during games when I watch him play. The value here is production vs. contract. The problem with Sheary is he probably has quite a bit less trade value than the other two. Even the older Hagelin and his expensive, expiring contract probably can fetch more via trade than Sheary can. So the question with him for me is always whether he is worth more to the Penguins than via trade because of this fact. It's different but it's a bit like the Kessel situation. Neither player can probably net in return what they can produce for you.
At the end of the day, in order to improve the team, I am open to trading any of the above three. We can add Simon (RFA), Kuhnhackl (RFA, not that he has any value at all), Brassard and Letang to the mix of players I would shop if I were JR, depending on what he is ultimately looking for.
Ideally, any trade would include Matt Hunwick's contract, and that is a strong consideration as well.
