Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Roster Freeze Ends 12:01am Dec 28

[Empoleon8771]

okay. Bonino is way better at 3C stuff than Sutter though. And he doesn't kill the offense of everyone he plays with either. If the entire game was nothing but fast breaks though, Sutter would be solid.

Like what? I'm really not getting this angle, I really feel Bonino is overrated by some on here. Outside of his run with HBK, he really wasn't anything special on the Penguins. His HBK run is the only reason that fans don't think of him as another Sutter. Seeing how the Penguins didn't make a serious offer to retain him in 2017, I think they agreed with that.

 

[Turin]

Like what? I'm really not getting this angle, I really feel Bonino is overrated by some on here.

Like not being a black hole in possession. Like being able to do stuff offensively that isn’t taking a shot from the right circle.

 

[Riptide]

I'd need a date range to prove/disprove this, but I really think you're wrong. Yes he had some games where he was getting some pretty good zone starts... but I'm extremely certain that the idea that he only really started to produce when getting more favorable starts is false. If I have time later I might try to look that up.

Sheahan wasn't producing much with thsoe starts either. His starts with guys like Jake and Kessel weren't much lower than Brassard's have been, and that's when he was producing.

I'm sure they still weren't great zone starts, but considering 60% of his production was with Sid, Geno, Phil, Guentzel, or Hornqvist, I doubt most of that came while playing 30% zone starts.

I'm not trying to discount his play. I liked Sheahan last year. But context is useful too I think.

Okay had a look. His best stretch of games came between Jan 22nd and Feb 12th where he had 2g/7pts in 8 games. His zone starts were 28.3%.
Another big stretch for him was Nov 14th to Dec 14th. He had 3g/9pts in 14 games. His zone starts were 35.2%.
His combined average over those spans was 33.14%

We've now accounted for 16 of RS's 24pts prior to the TD. I think it's pretty fair to say that Sheahan was still getting much harder zone starts then what Brassard has been getting - 60.66 last season and 43.53 this season.

* * *

How much of Brassard's production has come with Crosby, Guentzel or Kessel on his line? I think we're talking about a much higher number then 60%.

 

[Nakawick]

JR wants center depth. I doubt a center is moved. Brassard could also play LW with Geno. Sheahan, Cullen and Grant are all able to play wing as well. The team is playing better and JR should remain patient and evaluate at or near the trade deadline. He should have a good read on Schultz by then as well.

 

[PensandCaps]

Lol why are we calling Bonino Sutter?


He actually played Defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Like not being a black hole in possession. Like being able to do stuff offensively that isn’t taking a shot from the right circle.

Bonino wasn't a black hole in possession? Want to look at that closer? Take out his HBK run and he had a -4.5% CF%Rel. Sutter in his last year with the Penguins had a -4.5% CF%Rel with the Penguins, which is the same that Sutter had in his last season with the Penguins. And for Bonino being able to do so much more offensively than Sutter, it really didn't show on the scoreboard or on the stat sheet. Again, taking away his HBK run in 2016 and look at his numbers again.

For real, the 15 or so games that HBK existed in 2016 accounted for like a quarter of Bonino's production with the Penguins. He had 50 points in 128 games without HBK. Bonino was better than Sutter was, but people grossly overstate the difference. Bonino wasn't very good here outside of the HBK run, hence why the Penguins didn't try to retain him.

The Sutter vs Bonino comparison is irrelevant here. The point is that setting your expectations for Brassard based on what Bonino did doesn't make any sense, because Brassard is supposed to be way better than Bonino is.

Lol why are we calling Bonino Sutter?


He actually played Defense.

Of all things to criticize Sutter for, going after his defense is a questionable one

Sutter was soft as butter, was a crap playmaker and was incapable of using his linemates, but criticizing his defense is an odd take. His shot, speed and defense were the positives he offered.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Like what? I'm really not getting this angle, I really feel Bonino is overrated by some on here. Outside of his run with HBK, he really wasn't anything special on the Penguins. His HBK run is the only reason that fans don't think of him as another Sutter. Seeing how the Penguins didn't make a serious offer to retain him in 2017, I think they agreed with that.

you have a fun habit of telling people what we think

Bonino can actually play posession hockey. He can pass with his line. Sutter consistently made every linemate he played with worse while he was here. He's a great player until he has the puck, then he goes on a fast break. If that doesn't work, he is useless afterwords on offense. He's back to trying to get it back. It does lead to decent production, but it also tends to give the puck back to the other team very quickly.

 

[Peat]

The thing with Sheahan is that, while he may be an adequate scorer for a 3C, barely, his bigger problem imo is he’s not really a good defensive player for that position...really isn’t a particularly good forechecker, not hard on the boards or physical, doesn’t win a lot of 50-50 battles...he occasionally looks decent defensively or makes a solid play but he’s really not consistent for that position...I believe the coaching staff sees this and that’s why he’s playing more wing, which he did in DET...I would only re-sign him if he was going to play a bottom 6 wing position and I wouldn’t pay him over $2 mil for that

Surely if they didn't like his defence they'd have never brought him back to begin with?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

 

[Andy99]

Surely if they didn't like his defence they'd have never brought him back to begin with?

They brought him back to compete for 4C, and he was adequate last year...his point totals actually were the best thing about him...but no one who watches hockey could call his defense above average for a 3C....I’m sure they didn’t hate him defensively but to say he was good was a stretch...also have to compare him to other available options and they wanted depth at center

 

[Honour Over Glory]

you have a fun habit of telling people what we think

Bonino can actually play posession hockey. He can pass with his line. Sutter consistently made every linemate he played with worse while he was here. He's a great player until he has the puck, then he goes on a fast break. If that doesn't work, he is useless afterwords on offense. He's back to trying to get it back. It does lead to decent production, but it also tends to give the puck back to the other team very quickly.

Thinking about Sutter on the Pens makes me physically angry.

The guy was a f***ing black hole of making everyone suck on his line.

 

[JackFr]

Every two months, like clockwork, the Brandon Sutter revisionists pop up.

He was terrible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

No, because Brassard hasn't been nearly good enough for me to want to retain him for that money.

Every two months, like clockwork, the Brandon Sutter revisionists pop up.

He was terrible.

The point was saying Brassard has been good based on Bonino's production is dumb, because Bonino wasn't very good here for the most part. It's not Sutter revisionist history, everyone agrees that he sucked. Bonino just wasn't that much better.

 

[Riptide]

They brought him back to compete for 4C, and he was adequate last year...his point totals actually were the best thing about him...but no one who watches hockey could call his defense above average for a 3C....I’m sure they didn’t hate him defensively but to say he was good was a stretch...also have to compare him to other available options and they wanted depth at center

lol. Yes I'm sure that's it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

I think you’d need to look at it more than pure production. The questions would be does he fit well with the guys on L3 and with how that line will generally be distributed. Also how he does in the playoffs. If Sid or Geno are injured how did he do in that role.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

35 points would mean he played at a 43 point pace the rest of the way, so I'd certainly think about it. I guess it depends on usage (his and how it impacts Sid's/Geno's), playoffs, etc.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No, because Brassard hasn't been nearly good enough for me to want to retain him for that money.

he hasn't been, but to hit 35 would mean he probably plays the rest of the year very well.

 

[Peat]

They brought him back to compete for 4C, and he was adequate last year...his point totals actually were the best thing about him...but no one who watches hockey could call his defense above average for a 3C....I’m sure they didn’t hate him defensively but to say he was good was a stretch...also have to compare him to other available options and they wanted depth at center

It seems unlikely that they brought him back at 2m just to compete for 4C, and even more unlikely that an org that loves to bury their 4C in defensive duties so deep that even moles couldn't them would bring him back for that unless they like their defence. I'm pretty sure they disagree with you here - I know I do.

 

[Gurglesons]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

No way I bring back Brassard.

 

[JTG]

I'm curious to see what Brassard fetches on the open market. He really isn't anything all that special, but I'm sure he still gets paid.

 

[JTG]

you have a fun habit of telling people what we think

Bonino can actually play posession hockey. He can pass with his line. Sutter consistently made every linemate he played with worse while he was here. He's a great player until he has the puck, then he goes on a fast break. If that doesn't work, he is useless afterwords on offense. He's back to trying to get it back. It does lead to decent production, but it also tends to give the puck back to the other team very quickly.

Bonino has always known how to play with talent. That is the only real redeemable quality about him, IMO. He has the ability to morph.

 

[Shady Machine]

I love Bones. Don’t care if I overrate him. He was a good fit here and I wish he was still a Pen

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm curious to see what Brassard fetches on the open market. He really isn't anything all that special, but I'm sure he still gets paid.

I hope the Wild keep slipping so maybe Eric Staal waives his NTC and we can get him for Brassard. If you put Sheahan back at 3C, have Staal added to the top 9 as a winger, we're a better team.

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Staal, Malkin, Hornqvist
Pearson, Sheahan, Kessel
Flaming piece of shit of human waste #46, Cullen, Simon

 

[Gurglesons]

I hope the Wild keep slipping so maybe Eric Staal waives his NTC and we can get him for Brassard. If you put Sheahan back at 3C, have Staal added to the top 9 as a winger, we're a better team.

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Staal, Malkin, Hornqvist
Pearson, Sheahan, Kessel
Flaming piece of **** of human waste #46, Cullen, Simon

Staal has the same issue in New York as Brassard is having here.

 

[Ryder71]

Question...

So say Brassard hits 30-35pts this season and wants to come back at a 3.75-4m/yr cap hit for 4yrs and will take the 3.75-4m/yr for 4yrs only.

Do you do it?

You then need to move Maatta and Oleksiak and walk away from Sheahan in the off season.

I seriously doubt Brassard would come back here, but if it helps push Maatta out due to cap restrictions, great.