Salary Cap: Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part IX | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

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Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
No chance that happens. A) STL wouldn't move him for anything close to that and B) MAF would need to be moved first - if only for the reason he's the harder player/contract to move.

I wonder if Fleury is harder to move than Kunitz right now. It's an interesting debate. Basically, if Kunitz were a goaltender he'd be unmovable, if Fleury were a winger he'd be able to net us a good 1st round pick in this year's draft, plus something else.

But the reverse? The goalie market RIGHT NOW appears to be down to 1 team, but Fleury is an upgrade for some other teams. That may factor in.

Kunitz, well only because of his strong playoff performance from the Tampa series on does he currently hold any value at all.

I say Fleury's contract is currently easier to move than Kunitz's.


Sometimes it is better just to declare victory and not **** things up.

This off season is kind of like marrying a Victoria's Secret's model, whose Daddy is a billionaire, who has a PHD, who flashes you more than a GOT's episode, can cook like a professional chef, and who loves hockey and begs you to take her to all the games.

And some people would look at that and say I need to cheat on her and **** it all up.

There is not a lot that the Pens need to do this off season, all the key parts are coming back and are either in their prime or are young.

All they have to do is some minor moves. Fleury mostly, and even that only depends on the finalization of the expansion rules, and not **** it up.

Giving Maatta away, or some other things like that would **** it up.

tumblr_m2wbwkc84x1ru37dno1_500.gif

I think they need to do a little more than you are suggesting. We really don't know if Bryan Rust can be a complementary winger for the first or second line. We really don't know if Matthew Murray is going to come back down to earth. We really don't know what to make of Conor Sheary. We hope the defense holds just as well as it did in the playoffs. We hope Letang, Malkin, Maatta and Crosby stay healthy all season.

This isn't a perfect Cup champion, where you just sit back and look at everybody else making moves. This is more or less the 2009 team, except the franchise players are older, wiser but not nearly as dominant. Sure, having Kessel helps them a great deal.

We need to add at least one scoring winger. We need to add at least one depth defenseman and we need further development from the aforementioned Rust, Murray, Sheary, plus Sundqvist, Wilson, Bennett, Pouliot, Jarry and others down on the farm.

It took us 7 seasons to get the Cup back. Seven long seasons. Ray Shero was fairly complacent during most of those 7 seasons, and it cost us dearly. He did not make the right moves when he wasn't complacent, either.

Rutherford does not have the reputation of complacency, but he also did not build upon his first Cup champion in Carolina, progressively making the team worse.

This is an important off-season for this team. Since Rutherford and management have already been hard at work planning for next season, why shouldn't we be in that line of thinking right now?
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,352
18,779
Pittsburgh
The worst case scenario with MAF is you buy out his contract at the end of the season to expose him. It'd suck, but it's not nearly as painful as people are making it out to be. Best case scenario, you get a solid return for him now.

Holding on to him is a gamble, but if nobody's offering a good price, it's not the worst gamble to make, IMO. There's always a chance the market opens up either during the season or around the trade deadline.

It's the taking the chance/gamble I'm fine with overall.



 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
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Pittsburgh
I love Maatta, but his skating is and has always been an issue. I think it was magnified with his injuries/illness/lack of off-season training, but there is absolutely a big problem there.

If we can use him to land Hall, I'd go to Pittsburgh myself to drive Maatta to the airport.

When he was in training camp his first year, he was flying around the ice like Daley. He was everywhere. Then he went through awful bad luck.

I don't think his skating was a major issue at first. He was noticeable all over the ice.
 

Joejosh999

Registered User
Mar 13, 2014
2,738
465
On Maatta, his skating was good enough to play top-4 for Finland on the way to a bronze.
I sincerely hope that what we are seeing now, is a result of lack of conditioning/LB injury, and not energy/thyroid issues.

We will find out a lot in the fall, fingers crossed.
 

SweetStache

Registered User
Jan 28, 2013
159
14
I'm easy to please....an ageing Liz Hurley would do just fine.


On the topic of Maatta. He was abysmal for a lot of the playoffs. That had to do a lot with the injuries obviously. We were all just praying he would be able to turn it around next year and not make us have a meltdown over his new contract. Then Daley gets hurt against the Lightning and the Penguins are legit ****ed, so it seemed. What does Maatta do ? Somehow went from looking like an AHL defensemen with his work in the post season to looking like the old Maatta and playing great hockey since being put back in the line up. I thought he would rebound next year but the fact he did it this post season imo puts very little doubt he will be back to normal after an off season where he is healthy. This kid after everything he has been through and the way he turned it around in the post season speaks volumes about him.

It's not lost on me that Maatta looked better vs the slower Sharks but was getting toasted vs the quick Lightning.

That said, the Thyroid effects your hormone (and subsequently energy) levels. It's possible that Maatta's body is still balancing itself out after dealing with Thyroid CANCER!

I wouldn't look to move on from him just yet. It's just as likely that he surpasses his rookie form and is a #1 or #2 for a decade+ than he continues to struggle like he did much of last season.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,573
25,403
I wonder if Fleury is harder to move than Kunitz right now. It's an interesting debate. Basically, if Kunitz were a goaltender he'd be unmovable, if Fleury were a winger he'd be able to net us a good 1st round pick in this year's draft, plus something else.

But the reverse? The goalie market RIGHT NOW appears to be down to 1 team, but Fleury is an upgrade for some other teams. That may factor in.

Kunitz, well only because of his strong playoff performance from the Tampa series on does he currently hold any value at all.

I say Fleury's contract is currently easier to move than Kunitz's.

1 team wanting a win now goalie, 1 team with a win now goalie. I'm sanguine on moving Fleury if we/he wants unless Bishop comes onto the market or the Flames go elsewhere.

As for Kunitz - dunno man. I guess if he goes, its in a trade for a superior left winger. Ready made temporary replacement to go with whatever assets are worth the new man.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
I love Maatta, but his skating is and has always been an issue. I think it was magnified with his injuries/illness/lack of off-season training, but there is absolutely a big problem there.

If we can use him to land Hall, I'd go to Pittsburgh myself to drive Maatta to the airport.

We can't use him to land Hall, so no worries!
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
Yeah. The longer JR waits, the worse off the situation with MAF is going to be. His value drops by the day, and there are other goalies out there. I don't think this is a "be patient and hold out for the best deal" situation.

Calm... down. :laugh: You are going to get a group of people going if a trade isn't done by noon. We are 1 week and 2 days removed from the Cup. The Awards show is where most of the talks start. The draft is Friday. Once the draft happens, we still have a week before July 1.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
Must.

I hate Fleury as much as everyone, but he doesn't need to be moved out this summer. He isn't an albatross contract like Bickell. He is simply a goalie in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong contract.

Luongo was traded for Markstrom, Mattias, and a prospect. I'd still take that kind of package to relieve us some cap room.

Right but you need to have a goalie spot open to trade him to with expansion looming. MAF has to be protected from expansion (if we are to believe what's reportedly out there), and therefore, you have to find a team that would protect him over any of the other goalies, has the cap space and assets to make the deal.

That's a pretty short list and one that is unlikely to expand throughout the year as other GM's look to set their team up for expansion sooner than later. I do think there will be ways to move on from MAF later if you have to, but it won't be for much return.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
I think they need to do a little more than you are suggesting. We really don't know if Bryan Rust can be a complementary winger for the first or second line. We really don't know if Matthew Murray is going to come back down to earth. We really don't know what to make of Conor Sheary. We hope the defense holds just as well as it did in the playoffs. We hope Letang, Malkin, Maatta and Crosby stay healthy all season.

This isn't a perfect Cup champion, where you just sit back and look at everybody else making moves. This is more or less the 2009 team, except the franchise players are older, wiser but not nearly as dominant. Sure, having Kessel helps them a great deal.

We need to add at least one scoring winger. We need to add at least one depth defenseman and we need further development from the aforementioned Rust, Murray, Sheary, plus Sundqvist, Wilson, Bennett, Pouliot, Jarry and others down on the farm.

It took us 7 seasons to get the Cup back. Seven long seasons. Ray Shero was fairly complacent during most of those 7 seasons, and it cost us dearly. He did not make the right moves when he wasn't complacent, either.

Rutherford does not have the reputation of complacency, but he also did not build upon his first Cup champion in Carolina, progressively making the team worse.

This is an important off-season for this team. Since Rutherford and management have already been hard at work planning for next season, why shouldn't we be in that line of thinking right now?

This is basically 2009 except all the contributing players are younger and we have more in the pipeline. So basically, it's not 2009.

No Cup team is perfect, but this team is set up much better than they were in 2009.
 

thecore

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
920
48
Nebraska
steeltuxbird.blogspot.com
Calm... down. :laugh: You are going to get a group of people going if a trade isn't done by noon. We are 1 week and 2 days removed from the Cup. The Awards show is where most of the talks start. The draft is Friday. Once the draft happens, we still have a week before July 1.

If Fleury isn't moved on draft day, he probably won't be moved until the weeks leading up to the deadline (and that will be our last chance to avoid losing Murray). Rare chance he gets moved a few days into FA.
 

TimmyD

Registered User
Nov 11, 2013
4,842
2,892
Greensburg, PA
According to the Calgary Sun (Eric Francis I believe is the journalist) JR is asking for the 6th overall pick for Fleury and Calgary is bulking at that asking price. Hopefully he is just starting high in hopes that they come back with two 2nds
 

DegenX

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aug 14, 2011
14,622
5,683
I'd still like to get Shattenkirk from the Blues. I don't know how we could make it work, but ...

Daley - Letang
Dumo - Shatty
Maatta - Cole/ThatSwedishKid

Give Pooh another year in the A to develop, then bring him up while letting Daley walk the following season. Move Cole this year if that Swedish kid is as ready as the Rags fans all think he is.

*sigh* Not happening, I know.
 

SweetStache

Registered User
Jan 28, 2013
159
14
According to the Calgary Sun (Eric Francis I believe is the journalist) JR is asking for the 6th overall pick for Fleury and Calgary is bulking at that asking price. Hopefully he is just starting high in hopes that they come back with two 2nds

Man that would be terrific. What could we add to sweeten the pot? Maybe our 2017 1st and get back a 2016 2nd?
I don't know if that even makes sense, I'm getting blinded by the idea of picking 6oa.
 

Sideline

Registered User
May 23, 2004
11,111
2,831
According to the Calgary Sun (Eric Francis I believe is the journalist) JR is asking for the 6th overall pick for Fleury and Calgary is bulking at that asking price. Hopefully he is just starting high in hopes that they come back with two 2nds

I will build JR a statue right next to Mario's if he gets Calgary to pay the 6th overall for MAF.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
According to the Calgary Sun (Eric Francis I believe is the journalist) JR is asking for the 6th overall pick for Fleury and Calgary is bulking at that asking price. Hopefully he is just starting high in hopes that they come back with two 2nds

That's exactly what JR should be asking for. Obviously it will come down, but you should start there.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
If Fleury isn't moved on draft day, he probably won't be moved until the weeks leading up to the deadline (and that will be our last chance to avoid losing Murray). Rare chance he gets moved a few days into FA.

Kessel did, eh? And realistically teams will make it work to obtain MAF if we open it up for anyone to grab. Scuderi got traded 2x in one year. Everything is possible.

Patience. How can a human not give JR the benefit of the doubt at this point? He turned an awful situation into an indentity, a great team culture, and a promising future. We have a coach, who even with his minor faults, gives this team everything we've begged for. The old man did it. Period.
 

Captain Hook

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
15,458
390
Yeah, 6th overall sounds too good to be true so it probably is. Hopefully JR can pry something good away from whoever he trades Flower to though.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
34,920
7,170
Boston
According to the Calgary Sun (Eric Francis I believe is the journalist) JR is asking for the 6th overall pick for Fleury and Calgary is bulking at that asking price. Hopefully he is just starting high in hopes that they come back with two 2nds

As well he should. With Andersen gone, MAF is by far the best goalie available. Howard is awful and expensive. Bish isn't moving as he's a UFA next summer and doesn't need to be protected so TB will hold onto him. Reimer isn't a starter. Niemi/Leth are both trash.

And contrary to popular belief, JR cam move MAF next summer to a team like VAN pretty easily.

CAL has to get a goalie and JR doesn't have to move MAF. He holds all the power.
 

GFF

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
1,159
0
www.wrweb.co.uk
As well he should. With Andersen gone, MAF is by far the best goalie available. Howard is awful and expensive. Bish isn't moving as he's a UFA next summer and doesn't need to be protected so TB will hold onto him. Reimer isn't a starter. Niemi/Leth are both trash.

And contrary to popular belief, JR cam move MAF next summer to a team like VAN pretty easily.

CAL has to get a goalie and JR doesn't have to move MAF. He holds all the power.

I agree, if this is what is going on then I think there is a chance that JR gets it done. Will probably have to send something else their way like a 3rd round pick or a prospects of some description but if it gets us in to that top 6 there are some real beauties in the top of this years draft that could slot on Sids wing pretty sharpish! :naughty:
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
16,758
5,024
The Low Country, SC
I figure some Pens fans are like "mmmmmeh! Been over a week already. It's time for the Pens to **** or get off the pot — trade someone already! I'm bored on HFB and we can't have that."

Gettin' it: I'm not.

Enjoy the summer of the


Seriously, if you are unable to stop thinking about stupid **** like the draft and trades and cap stuff right now... when do you ever enjoy the moment? It's like all year long, we're not good enough to get the Cup, we need that guy to get the Cup, that coach to get the Cup, don't want to play those guys on the way to the Cup.

Then we WIN the ****ing Cup and some people are like "enough of this **** already... when are we going to trade?" :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


SO the only acceptable posts in your mind are celebration photos? This is a hockey forum, we ARE HERE TO DISCUSS TRADES, CAP AND THE DRAFT:amazed:
 
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