Sakic's and Roy's Avalanche Rebuild

[RockLobster]

Columbus is an eastern conference team.

They'd have 4 more points (to go along with 2 more wins and 2 less losses) and if my memory serves me correct, would own the eventual tie-breaker with Chicago (Goals For, as they'd be tied in every other tie-breaker category up to that point)

 

[AvsGuy]

...Yes, they are...you still get 2 points for beating them...

Ah for whatever reason I thought you were referring to their position in the standings.

 

[cgf]

Ah for whatever reason I thought you were referring to their position in the standings.

Ah, nah. Just picked two games we should've put away in the third that turned into regulation losses.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Yeah it's a nice luxury to have had Pickard and Berra both play well for stretches, but either of those guys would fold over a full season until proven otherwise. At 5.9, what say we hold onto Varly.

Fair enough. How many solid games would it take for a back up to unseat a starter? Suppose they have the luxury to play Berra as much as they want with each solid start mitigating the risk of trading Varly.

 

[AvsGuy]

Fair enough. How many solid games would it take for a back up to unseat a starter? Suppose they have the luxury to play Berra as much as they want with each solid start mitigating the risk of trading Varly.

Does it really though? Berras been fantastic, but given his track record, he appears to just be having an amazing month. Even if Berra somehow grabs the starting role and plays 50+ games this year, I don't see us trading Varlamov. Weirder things have happened I guess.

 

[the_fan]

If Varly is gonna be bothered with that groin issue forever and not knowing if he'll ever be able to take this team far, what's the point in keeping him even if Berra doesn't become a #1. Just trade Varly and find a new #1 guy instead of investing in a goalie with chronic groin issue

 

[dahrougem2]

If Varly is gonna be bothered with that groin issue forever and not knowing if he'll ever be able to take this team far, what's the point in keeping him even if Berra doesn't become a #1. Just trade Varly and find a new #1 guy instead of investing in a goalie with chronic groin issue

You make it sound like finding a new #1 is an easy thing to do. Why don't you ask the Oilers or the Leafs how that's gone for the last decade

We have a true #1 in Varly, let's not move him. I appreciate the way Berra has played and have been one of the few who has backed him since the trade, but I wouldn't play him over Varly as the #1 long-term.

 

[the_fan]

You make it sound like finding a new #1 is an easy thing to do. Why don't you ask the Oilers or the Leafs how that's gone for the last decade

We have a true #1 in Varly, let's not move him. I appreciate the way Berra has played and have been one of the few who has backed him since the trade, but I wouldn't play him over Varly as the #1 long-term.

It's not easy finding a #1 goalie but having one with injury issues is almost the same as not having one.

 

[dahrougem2]

It's not easy finding a #1 goalie but having one with injury issues is almost the same as not having one.

It really isn't. One scenario you have the goaltender and the other you don't.

 

[Frenchy]

why are we talking about Trading Varly ?
Berra is not our number one goalie, no matter how good Berra is playing right or will play in the future , Varly is our number one starter .
Worst case scenario we'll end up with two solid goaltenders , Berra could be in net for 20-30 games and varly will take the rest of the games . That's what any good team is suppose to have , a solid backup who is there to give the starter a rest , it was something missing on the Avs and now we have it.

 

[AslanRH]

why are we talking about Trading Varly ?

 

[PAZ]

Varly isn't going anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if Varly was injured near the start of the season, and plays like junk like Duchene when he's battling with an injury.

Another thing we don't discuss is how Roy handles his goalies. He's probably one of the best coaches in the league with handling their starts. Back when we had the Varly/Giggy combo, he let Giggy have the harder matchups to keep Varly's confidence up at the start of the season, and then he just took off.

 

[AvsCOL]

The only pieces I'd like to see moved, for any cost, would be Iginla/Tanguay. There's some serious talent on this roster for some good value. The depth is obviously a problem right now, but they're still in a rebuild as far as I'm concerned.

Trading Varlamov would be a huge mistake. He's posting save percentages of 0.927, and 0.921 the past two seasons, playing behind a pile of garbage on defense. Soon as he struggles a bit everyone is ready to jump ship? Berra is playing well, but if anyone should be moved, it should be Berra. Sell high, and pick up some decent pieces.

 

[AslanRH]

The only pieces I'd like to see moved, for any cost, would be Iginla/Tanguay. There's some serious talent on this roster for some good value. The depth is obviously a problem right now, but they're still in a rebuild as far as I'm concerned.

Trading Varlamov would be a huge mistake. He's posting save percentages of 0.927, and 0.921 the past two seasons, playing behind a pile of garbage on defense. Soon as he struggles a bit everyone is ready to jump ship? Berra is playing well, but if anyone should be moved, it should be Berra. Sell high, and pick up some decent pieces.

Very few are ready to "jump ship" on Varly. Iggy said he won't waive anytime soon. Tangs is injured.

People are just discussing the what ifs based around speculation thrown out by Dater.

Merely some discussion fodder to pass the time because talking about Guenin being not very good and Barrie/MacK's extensions is kind of stale.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Sorry if this is totally left field guys and gals, but my mind is pretty adhd and this thought just popped up in my mind:

I've never said a bad thing about Roy as a coach even once, but I've noticed that he does really well with his young players in developing them and bringing them along slowly or throwing them into the fire if he thinks they can handle the pressure. Would it be a good idea (although not probable) to change his role to perhaps assistant coach or something along those lines and bring in a more experienced person for the head coach position eventually?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Sorry if this is totally left field guys and gals, but my mind is pretty adhd and this thought just popped up in my mind:

I've never said a bad thing about Roy as a coach even once, but I've noticed that he does really well with his young players in developing them and bringing them along slowly or throwing them into the fire if he thinks they can handle the pressure. Would it be a good idea (although not probable) to change his role to perhaps assistant coach or something along those lines and bring in a more experienced person for the head coach position eventually?

I think the opposite. Id he could bring in someone really experienced to replace Army this could be accomplished. Roy wouldn't work under anyone and said person would probably be next in line.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Sorry if this is totally left field guys and gals, but my mind is pretty adhd and this thought just popped up in my mind:

I've never said a bad thing about Roy as a coach even once, but I've noticed that he does really well with his young players in developing them and bringing them along slowly or throwing them into the fire if he thinks they can handle the pressure. Would it be a good idea (although not probable) to change his role to perhaps assistant coach or something along those lines and bring in a more experienced person for the head coach position eventually?

I think it's the other way around, I want better assistant coaches. Beyond the obvious reasons Roy wouldn't be in coaching if he stepped out of the HC position.

Edit : LOL TV

 

[Pokecheque]

I would agree. An experienced coach would do wonders for this team, kinda like Jacques Martin did for Marc Crawford in Colorado briefly. Incidentally, what IS Jacques Martin doing these days? He kinda got a raw deal in Montreal.

Has there ever really been a precedent for what Sakic and Roy are attempting to do with the prospect base overall? I don't ever recall such a thorough overhaul done before. Sure, teams have been gutted plenty of times, but the organization from top to bottom looks vastly different than when Sherman was in charge. A whole ton of Euro free agents have been brought over along with some NA signees, and all appear to be worthy gambles at the least. I think that alone has been the most remarkable accomplishment the new regime has made--even in the Avs heyday under Lacroix the farm team was little more than a bunch of grinders and career AHLers. I can still remember the callups of Kelly Fairchild, Jeff Daw, and Jordan Krestanovich in the same year. More recently you had guys like David van der Gulik getting the nod. We're likely not going to see callups of that kind for a while now, unless you count Ben Street.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I would agree. An experienced coach would do wonders for this team, kinda like Jacques Martin did for Marc Crawford in Colorado briefly. Incidentally, what IS Jacques Martin doing these days? He kinda got a raw deal in Montreal.

he's special assistant coach with the pens.

 

[Pokecheque]

You make it sound like finding a new #1 is an easy thing to do. Why don't you ask the Oilers or the Leafs how that's gone for the last decade

Fact is, this league wildly overvalues goaltending. In terms of supply and demand it shouldn't be that hard to find good goaltending when you have hundreds to choose from and only two spots to fill on the roster. Sure, when you find a guy like Carey Price or Pekka Rinne, you lock him down for the big money. Otherwise, getting a Martin Jones or Ben Bishop ain't that hard. Still confuses the hell out of me why Chicago threw such big money at Crawford. A guy like that is ridiculously easy to replace.

Now, all that said, I don't necessarily think Varly should be traded, but I do think he's a bit overpaid, because frankly I think a lot of the league's top goalies are overpaid. Again, the only ones IMO who should be commanding franchise-level deals are Lundqvist, Price, and Rinne. Those are the only three I'd call "elite." The rest range from very good to average.

On a side note, I don't know if there's a single team who's made dumber decisions with goaltenders than Philly. They're obviously prone to panic deals and knee-jerk reactions, but they seem even moreso with the guy between the pipes. If they had just stuck with Bobrovsky or gotten him a better coach they'd be fine right now.

And IMO there's where the REAL investment should be--your goaltending coach. He's the guy who develops them, evaluates them, refines their techniques. Roy's best move so far was bringing in Allaire. That position is vital to the success of any organization, fail in that area and it won't matter how much one pays to bring in goaltending.

 

[Pokecheque]

he's special assistant coach with the pens.

Geez...that's all he can get!? That's kinda ridiculous. Far worse coaches have gotten more recent gigs.

As far as the top end talent/support players debate goes, this team is still missing one vital piece--an top-end #1 defenseman. A guy who plays in all situations and plays at a top level in all three zones. Avs simply don't have that guy right now. And no, EJ is not that guy. I'm hoping Chris Bigras ends up being that guy, but it's too early to say that right now.

Support players are vitally important though, and yes, the Avs need more of them, and the failure of the previous regime to produce much of anything in that department has led the current regime to really have to scour the effin' world to find some viable cheap talent.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

Geez...that's all he can get!? That's kinda ridiculous. Far worse coaches have gotten more recent gigs.

As far as the top end talent/support players debate goes, this team is still missing one vital piece--an top-end #1 defenseman. A guy who plays in all situations and plays at a top level in all three zones. Avs simply don't have that guy right now. And no, EJ is not that guy. I'm hoping Chris Bigras ends up being that guy, but it's too early to say that right now.

Support players are vitally important though, and yes, the Avs need more of them, and the failure of the previous regime to produce much of anything in that department has led the current regime to really have to scour the effin' world to find some viable cheap talent.

I want what you're smoking.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Av, I can't cut and paste and get all fancy quotes on my phone so in response to your posts.

I completely agree that in two years there is an obvious overhaul on the prospect base and foundation. I can actually SEE it in action watching the Rampage. They might be overachieving a tad but still they work well as a team and they have an IDENTITY and it's mostly the real prospects doing the heavy lifting. Dont know if it's the talent level or mandate from the Avs but they are winning dressing three 20 year old defenseman, a 22 year old, top forward is 19 and a 20 year old rookie goalie!! That's why it boggles my mind that they'd get antsy and trade any of these pieces for immediate gratification. The plan is working and it's starting to show some results.

Disagree about how goaltending is dime a dozen. Yes you can find one anywhere but the teams that don't have a decent level of goaltending are endlessly searching for it. It's pretty clear this org puts a priority on goaltending and developing it. Remember when we didn't have a goaltending coach and now we even have one that has an assistant that goes with Martin to the ECHL. The fact that goaltending is a strength through the pipeline is because they've invested in both the talent and the people to cultivate the talent. I find it interesting that the SA folks have said they haven't seen goaltending so good before makes me think that it's a competitive advantage here. I don't think that they can turn anyone into gold. They've done what they can with guys like Will and Berra but the guys who have that talent level like Varly, Picks, Martin does make a difference.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Goaltending dime a dozen? Is that why the Avs had such a great track record 2003-2013?

 

[Nalens Oga]

It's 20 games in, time for Sakic to stop sitting on his ass and make a move somewhere unless he thinks it'll correct itself.