Sakic's and Roy's Avalanche Rebuild

[ThatAvsGamer]

Ryan Callahan doesn't play the same position as Stastny (since Center is much more important), nor has he ever been looked at as being on the same level offensively as Paul Stastny (career high of 54 points).

Callahan was just as important to the Rangers as Stastny was to the Avs. Not the stud of the team, but a solid core player.

 

[Iceberg]

People keep saying this, but it's just not true. A team having the year the Avs were having in 2013, are not trading a very important part of that team (Stastny), who with Landeskog and MacKinnon formed a very formidable 2nd Line (because remember, O'Reilly and Duchene were lighting it up on the 1st line).

Show me one team in the past who is not only on their way to the playoffs, but also competing for a Division Title, trading away a player of the SAME caliber and importance as Paul Stastny. In the past some have (laughably) offered up Douglas Murray and Ryan Clowe as examples, but neither provided the same important role, nor was overall as good as Paul Stastny.

Why trade him away for futures (and in a year where people didn't get much at the trade deadline)? Are some of us really operating under the assumption that whatever the subpar return would have been, that we'd be in a better spot now? Plus, what happens to that year if the Avs DO trade Stastny? Why, it creates another hole. Either O'Reilly is moved back there, ending a offensive pairing that was dynamite (Duchene/O'Reilly) or they put MacKinnon back at Center, which wouldn't have been that great, because A) He was still very green at that position in the NHL, and B) it creates yet another hole on the 2nd Line RW side. On top of all of that, you then have to deal with the perception it creates in the locker room, that while this season is good, you don't believe in the group and it's better to plan for the future.

No matter what, trading him away at the deadline was not a mistake. Perhaps not trading his UFA rights could have been, but who's to say, the Avs believed that they had a good chance at re-signing him.

Teams were not giving up a lot? So what? Stastny would have been the biggest prize at the deadline, and we'll never know what prospects we could've gotten for him or who we might have drafted with maybe a 1st round pick .

And about the message it would send to the locker room, how about the same excuse that they used to move ROR? That they tried to keep Stasnty but the money didn't work and they wanted people that wanted to be here... bla, bla, bla... and that they couldn't afford to lose him for nothing, because they wanted to have sucess not just that year, but for years to come?

Look at how the Rangers handled Zuccarello, and that's how Sakic should have proceeded.

Or did Sakic really believed Stastny would back down from his asking price at July 1st?

It was a mistake.

They had ample time to work on an extention, they knew exactly what Stastny wanted, and they knew exactly that, even with how well things were going at that point, the team was a LONG shot to win it all, they knew this team had a LOT of holes on their roster and system.

You either sign the guy or you trade him.

Also, had they signed Stasnty, they could have dealt ROR earlier and probably gotten a better return.

 

[Iceberg]

Callahan was just as important to the Rangers as Stastny was to the Avs. Not the stud of the team, but a solid core player.

And not only that, they have been a lot closer to a Stanley Cup then us, and last year they also threatened to trade Zuccarello if he didn't sign his extension before the trade deadline.

 

[S E P H]

Rangers traded Callahan, their captain, when he wouldn't re-sign for a reasonable salary. They would have traded Girardi if he didn't re-sign.

A question for you. When was the last time a team let a 28 year, two way center that's averaged 70 points a season go for nothing in free agency?

It doesn't happen. But here we are supposed to go "aw shucks, nothing they could do because they were going for it".

Here's what Roy said a week before Stastny signed with division rivals Blues: "They both (Stastny and O'Reilly) are very important players to our team. I'm certainly very confident things will go well.". Rookies in the front office got played like rookies. Hopefully they learned their lesson and it won't be repeated again.

Agreed on the last part, but I don't entirely agree on how Avs handled Stastny. Now is it looking like we should have traded him? Of course, but I think the Avs were confident they could have re-signed him. I was confident, majority of this board was, even Stastny had some good "up beat" quotes as well.

If we go from rumours, which do not seem that far-fetched, Avs offered him somewhere around 6,250,000 to 6,500,000. I am pretty sure Roy did say they offered him more than what he was making (6 million at the time). Plus he was coming off 57, 53, and 24 point seasons (last one was the lockout). Only season he was above-average was when Roy became coach. History isn't there for him to make what he got from the Blues. This part I do agree, if not reasonable, then ship his *** out. BUT we normally don't see players leave for just a bonus of 750,000, especially when they have ties to the organization and the city.

There was a HUGE difference between what Callahan was wanting and what Stastny left for. I do think it irritated Roy, he might have said all the right things, but I remember the tone of his voice, he didn't seem all too happy. I blame more on Stastny than how the Avs handled him. Now Sakic and Roy learned you can't trust any player, they probably thought that Stastny with everything tied in with Colorado in general, he would probably stay and they were not offering him bogus discount money either. I blame more on Stastny leaving than Avs handling him poorly, but now you can't really trust any player (which is why Sakic traded ROR).

Thankfully though the hockey Gods are a good bunch of guys and so far Stastny's journey in St. Louis has been on the opposite side of great. I don't hate the guy nor do I want him to fail, I have no personal grudges toward Paul, but it is also nice to see that he broke the relationship with the Avs and he hasn't found love since.

 

[AvsWraith]

That 112 point season did a lot of damage. If we had started that season like our last two seasons, we would likely:

- Traded Stastny at the deadline to a playoff team for a rental price. Would we have gotten a 1st? Maybe, who knows for sure? We might've just gotten a decent prospect and a 2nd, but it would've at least been something.

- Not have Iggy, which is really how it should be. At this stage of his career, Iggy is a luxury player that you put with an established top 9 that is playoff bound. You don't try to rely on him to be a consistent top 6 player, especially on a team that clearly needs to keep building.

- We, the fans, wouldn't have had such high expectations.

- Most important of all, Sakic and Roy might not be in this "win right now, but also try and build at the same time" mode. Maybe, they might've been able to fully commit to building and could've acquired a few more assets.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Of people want to believe Dater's Duchene rumor then believe Dater's report that they offered Stastny 6.75 x 3

Good points AW

 

[S E P H]

That 112 point season did a lot of damage. If we had started that season like our last two seasons, we would likely:

- Traded Stastny at the deadline to a playoff team for a rental price. Would we have gotten a 1st? Maybe, who knows for sure? We might've just gotten a decent prospect and a 2nd, but it would've at least been something.

- Not have Iggy, which is really how it should be. At this stage of his career, Iggy is a luxury player that you put with an established top 9 that is playoff bound. You don't try to rely on him to be a consistent top 6 player, especially on a team that clearly needs to keep building.

- We, the fans, wouldn't have had such high expectations.

- Most important of all, Sakic and Roy might not be in this "win right now, but also try and build at the same time" mode. Maybe, they might've been able to fully commit to building and could've acquired a few more assets.

There is not one fan here who thought this teamwas/is a consistent playoff contender. I had the Avs make the playoffs in my prediction, but more due to certain regressions (Jets, Predators, Stars) of the Central than Avs being this amazing team. And Jets have fallen back the last month and I still doubt Stars are as good as their record says IMO.

But I do think that majority here thought we would be a bubble team which if the bounces and injures go our way, we could sneak into the playoffs, if not, we would be on the outside looking in.

Of people want to believe Dater's Duchene rumor then believe Dater's report that they offered Stastny 6.75 x 3

Good points AW

I don't think the Avs offered him that much, but they did offer him more than what he was making. If that rumour is true from Dater, I am more surprised why there isn't more hate for Stastny on this board. I get the sense there is more animosity for O'Reilly than Stastny here, when Paul could easily be the worst villain out of all of this.

 

[Iceberg]

I don't think the Avs offered him that much, but they did offer him more than what he was making. If that rumour is true from Dater, I am more surprised why there isn't more hate for Stastny on this board. I get the sense there is more animosity for O'Reilly than Stastny here, when Paul could easily be the worst villain out of all of this.

[MOD] A villain? Why? Because he didn't want to leave 7+ million dollars on the table?

 

[tigervixxxen]

There is not one fan here who thought this teamwas/is a consistent playoff contender. I had the Avs make the playoffs in my prediction, but more due to certain regressions (Jets, Predators, Stars) of the Central than Avs being this amazing team. And Jets have fallen back the last month and I still doubt Stars are as good as their record says IMO.

But I do think that majority here thought we would be a bubble team which if the bounces and injures go our way, we could sneak into the playoffs, if not, we would be on the outside looking in.


I don't think the Avs offered him that much, but they did offer him more than what he was making. If that rumour is true from Dater, I am more surprised why there isn't more hate for Stastny on this board. I get the sense there is more animosity for O'Reilly than Stastny here, when Paul could easily be the worst villain out of all of this.

He was making 6.6 so 6.75 is not that far fetched to consider it more.

 

[Gargyn]

Do you guys think you might get radulov to come over next year?

 

[AslanRH]

From all reports, that 6.75m offer was 11th hour. After the Org pushing the future being MacK and Dutch down the middle and all while still having the unknown with another top 6 center in ROR. Stastny even stated he didn't think he was in the Avs plans really as a top 6 center going forward.

If ROR's contract situation/trade had happened before Stastny's, I would wager all my future Vcash earnings that they would have found a way to keep Stastny.

The Avs FO just got caught in a bad situation, and being unwilling to meet ROR's salary demands forced their hand to trade him.

Trading Duchene (or the willingness to) only makes sense if they do not see him as the "right" piece going forward, or if they think they could get multiple "right" pieces for only 1.

ex: If they were targeting at least ZBad/Hoffman/Lazar + Ceci/Methot or perhaps more, I could see why they could have had to toss Duchene's name into that conversation. Perhaps they were dangling their 1st initially for one of the defenders, and the conversation moved on.

We'll likely never know.

 

[Bonzai12]

Related (although not directly) - you have to look at the Nuggets and include Josh Kroenke in this discussion.

If you look at what the Nuggets are doing, they are trying to build while competing. Avs seem to be in the same boat and the one guy pulling both strings is Josh.

The Nuggets have gotten some flack from beat writers questioning why they just don't blow everything up and start over. I think it's a culture coming down from even above Sakic's head.

Could be wrong but the situation of both franchises and their half foot in/half out rebuilding methods are strikingly similar.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Difference is avs already went through a rebuild, you're supposed to be progressing now, not having the worst start in a decade.

 

[klozge]

I don't know (nor do I care) where this Duchene talk comes from but there's just no chance the Avs are even considering trading him at this point. It's silly talk, really.

 

[trip trancid]

They've put some nice wins together on this road trip. And I can't help but wonder if this team is really so bad or whether it's in such a brutal division/conference. Are they winning only because they're playing the junior varsity conference currently? Or, is there a distinct benefit to playing MacKinnon and Duchene (also Landeskog) on the same line?

I'm not sure the answer but I really love this 92-29-9 line. I've seen so many complaints about the lack of talent on this team after them. If that's true, then it's nice to see these guys paired together. Make the other guys earn it. Let the others know how unworthy they are until they prove otherwise.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's a bit of everything. I still think this roster needs more talent especially at forward but I also think a ton of it is mental for these guys too. Several of them admitted blowing that game vs the Wild was tough to put behind them. When they have confidence + good goaltending + scoring from their stars that's a recipe they can win with.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

It's a bit of everything. I still think this roster needs more talent especially at forward but I also think a ton of it is mental for these guys too. Several of them admitted blowing that game vs the Wild was tough to put behind them. When they have confidence + good goaltending + scoring from their stars that's a recipe they can win with.

Great to see them play with confidence, I'll be going to the game Tuesday! Can't wait.

I know Roy sending Rantanen and Zadorov down was a tough pull to swallow for some (myself included) but when the team is rolling it really is a blessing. Two future roster and hopefully impact players are developing (add in Bigras). It's really nice to have talent throughout both our squads. I also love the approach Roy took with Grigorenko, he looks great out there. Hopefully he keeps developing and we acquired a legitimate top 6 talent. If I remember correctly Mack said from preseason he loved playing with him.

It'll be interesting to look at the O'Reilly trade two years from now.

 

[cgf]

If we had finished off the Wild on opening night and not let Lumbus back into the match we'd be in a playoff spot right now...

 

[tigervixxxen]

Great to see them play with confidence, I'll be going to the game Tuesday! Can't wait.

I know Roy sending Rantanen and Zadorov down was a tough pull to swallow for some (myself included) but when the team is rolling it really is a blessing. Two future roster and hopefully impact players are developing (add in Bigras). It's really nice to have talent throughout both our squads. I also love the approach Roy took with Grigorenko, he looks great out there. Hopefully he keeps developing and we acquired a legitimate top 6 talent. If I remember correctly Mack said from preseason he loved playing with him.

It'll be interesting to look at the O'Reilly trade two years from now.

I didn't like sending Rantanen and Zadorov down and didn't think they were the problem but maybe it was for the best because that's when they really started to play better. I'd say starting with the Sharks game they finally started turning the corner (paused to poop the bed in Arizona but that was part due to those weird goals Varly let in but they were playing well out of the gate). Anyway, I would like to see both back this year but for now it was the right move.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

I didn't like sending Rantanen and Zadorov down and didn't think they were the problem but maybe it was for the best because that's when they really started to play better. I'd say starting with the Sharks game they finally started turning the corner (paused to poop the bed in Arizona but that was part due to those weird goals Varly let in but they were playing well out of the gate). Anyway, I would like to see both back this year but for now it was the right move.

I agree they were not the problem but I think sending them down was more about what's best for them. And with young players, that's what most important. Like you said, it was the right move. The team overall has looked better overall, we look hungry for the puck and are making crisp passes. It's exciting.

With regards to Varly, I would be lying if I said I was not disappointed. However, I still have tons of faith in him. And how about the guy Roy and Sakic acquired in Berra?! Quite the bright spot indeed. It looks like their only hiccup is going to be the Stuart extension.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Wonder if they are going to give Berra some extended time now. Could acquire additional F via a Varly trade.

 

[cgf]

Wonder if they are going to give Berra some extended time now. Could acquire additional F via a Varly trade.

I know that the popular meme is that Roykic have the intellectual capacity of a ****** . But a Varly trade would be beyond even that level of stupidity.

 

[AvsGuy]

If we had finished off the Wild on opening night and not let Lumbus back into the match we'd be in a playoff spot right now...

Columbus is an eastern conference team.

 

[AvsGuy]

I know that the popular meme is that Roykic have the intellectual capacity of a ******. But a Varly trade would be beyond even that level of stupidity.

Yeah it's a nice luxury to have had Pickard and Berra both play well for stretches, but either of those guys would fold over a full season until proven otherwise. At 5.9, what say we hold onto Varly.

 

[cgf]

Columbus is an eastern conference team.

...Yes, they are...you still get 2 points for beating them...