Saginaw Spirit 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

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Fischhaber

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Don't think they'd play him on PK if they didn't think we was at least decent on defense.
In my personal experience playing hockey, I found it a lot different. Being extremely tall made me a slow skater (and crappy player!) but good at disrupting passes and clearing the crease. Hay isn't that tall, but there are other skills that come into play.

You can’t argue with the results, as the Spirit penalty kill was one of the best.
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
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In my personal experience playing hockey, I found it a lot different. Being extremely tall made me a slow skater (and crappy player!) but good at disrupting passes and clearing the crease. Hay isn't that tall, but there are other skills that come into play.

You can’t argue with the results, as the Spirit penalty kill was one of the best.
If Bloom came back earlier he would have been near the top of the list too.
 
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Kingpin794

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Good to finish this one up early because the Soo did the same. Both teams will get a bit of time off before they match up to rest and prepare.
 

Jay R

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Good to finish this one up early because the Soo did the same. Both teams will get a bit of time off before they match up to rest and prepare.
That's good for both teams and hoping for a good match up with Saginaw. If the regular season is an indication should be good
 

HockeyPops

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Is Saginaw healthy? Soo has been without top 6 forward Jack Beck, and bottom 6 forward Travis Hayes, but I'm hopeful both will be back for the 2nd round.
 

OSMike

Conch Shell Crew
Mar 25, 2014
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Good luck Saginaw! Your team looked amazing against us in this series. Really fun to watch. I can't count how many times in 3 passes you were 200' up the ice. And the Attack could hardly get out of their zone. Parekh skating is off the charts.
 

Kingpin794

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Good luck Saginaw! Your team looked amazing against us in this series. Really fun to watch. I can't count how many times in 3 passes you were 200' up the ice. And the Attack could hardly get out of their zone. Parekh skating is off the charts.
Thanks for the well wishes. Hope to see the Attack get back to some success in the near future. Always was a model small market team back in the 2010's. It's fun when the Bayshore has something to cheer for.
 

Finster8

aka-Ant Hill Harry
Jan 18, 2015
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SSM is a good team and we will have to play our best to beat them. If Oke can keep up his steady play, D stays solid l think we can put up some consistent offensive numbers. Looking forward to an entertaining series. Go Spirit
 

Fischhaber

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SSM is a good team and we will have to play our best to beat them. If Oke can keep up his steady play, D stays solid l think we can put up some consistent offensive numbers. Looking forward to an entertaining series. Go Spirit
This series is all about goaltending. It has decided most of the games in the regular season and I think it will decided most of the playoff games too. With all due respect to Schenkel and Oke, they are both average goalies at best, not what you normally see on championship contenders. There's going to be a lot of goals.
 

Kingpin794

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This series is all about goaltending. It has decided most of the games in the regular season and I think it will decided most of the playoff games too. With all due respect to Schenkel and Oke, they are both average goalies at best, not what you normally see on championship contenders. There's going to be a lot of goals.
I mean Oke was on USA's WJC team so he's perfectly fine as a starter. In any case, in the OHL, it almost is never about goal tending. Both teams only gave up 215 goals and that's mainly because they both like to posses the puck to reduce pressure on the D/G. It'll be more about who can maintain possession better.
 

Stellar29

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I mean Oke was on USA's WJC team so he's perfectly fine as a starter. In any case, in the OHL, it almost is never about goal tending. Both teams only gave up 215 goals and that's mainly because they both like to posses the puck to reduce pressure on the D/G. It'll be more about who can maintain possession better.
I'll give Oke his flowers, he was very good against Owen Sound. He didn't see a whole lot of rubber but was pretty solid on the high danger chances. That glove save late in Game 3 on Barlow was a killer.
 

Fischhaber

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I mean Oke was on USA's WJC team so he's perfectly fine as a starter. In any case, in the OHL, it almost is never about goal tending. Both teams only gave up 215 goals and that's mainly because they both like to posses the puck to reduce pressure on the D/G. It'll be more about who can maintain possession better.
An .890 SV% isn't anything more than average, but he could have faced better quality chances than your average goaltender. You would know better than me.

I'm curious about your take on goaltending in the OHL. People that I have talked to over the years that are involved in the game think that it's more important in junior than in other leagues. There's a much bigger skill gap because of the longer development timeline, but that disappears as they get older. Successful teams like London never go into the playoffs without a top flight goaltender.
 

Kingpin794

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An .890 SV% isn't anything more than average, but he could have faced better quality chances than your average goaltender. You would know better than me.

I'm curious about your take on goaltending in the OHL. People that I have talked to over the years that are involved in the game think that it's more important in junior than in other leagues. There's a much bigger skill gap because of the longer development timeliness, but that disappears as they get older.
Not worried about the save percentage. His GAA was sub 3. If we keep teams to 3 or under in a game, we likely win.

As far as goaltending in juniors go, I’m of the opposite opinion. Goaltending is much more important in the NHL than juniors. There isn’t a massive difference talent wise between a top team and a borderline WC team compared to say a 1 and 8 seed in the CHL. Goalies in the NHL can absolutely push the needle. In juniors, your skaters win. There’s no question that George is a better goalie than Oke but it didn’t really help Owen Sound.
 
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Fischhaber

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Not worried about the save percentage. His GAA was sub 3. If we keep teams to 3 or under in a game, we likely win.

As far as goaltending in juniors go, I’m of the opposite opinion. Goaltending is much more important in the NHL than juniors. There isn’t a massive difference talent wise between a top team and a borderline WC team compared to say a 1 and 8 seed in the CHL. Goalies in the NHL can absolutely push the needle. In juniors, your skaters win. There’s no question that George is a better goalie than Oke but it didn’t really help Owen Sound.
His GAA is only good because he plays on a team that doesn't give up a lot of shots. I think SV% is a far more reliable indicator of goaltender talent. Carter George is a great example of that.

We'll have to see how the series plays out. I'm not saying you are wrong, but experts would peg this as a matchup of two great teams with weaker goaltending. That should make for a really interesting series. I think LaLonde and Miller will be factors.
 

Kingpin794

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His GAA is only good because he plays on a team that doesn't give up a lot of shots. I think SV% is a far more reliable indicator of goaltender talent. Carter George is a great example of that.

We'll have to see how the series plays out. I'm not saying you are wrong, but experts would peg this as a matchup of two great teams with weaker goaltending. That should make for a really interesting series. I think LaLonde and Miller will be factors.
There. You’ve almost got it. George can save a ton of shots but he’ll still give up more than 3 goals. I agree SV% is a better metric for talent but that’s something scouts can worry about for draft day. On game day though, goaltending numbers in junior are just about meaningless with respect to determining who will win because those numbers are mostly a function of the team in front of them.
 
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Fischhaber

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There. You’ve almost got it. George can save a ton of shots but he’ll still give up more than 3 goals. I agree SV% is a better metric for talent but that’s something scouts can worry about for draft day. On game day though, goaltending numbers in junior are just about meaningless with respect to determining who will win because those numbers are mostly a function of the team in front of them.
It's interesting that in our 8 head to head matchups this season that the team with the shot advantage went 4-4, while the team with the better goaltending (by SV%) went 7-1, with that one loss being essentially even in shots (26-24) and decided in a shootout.

Good discussion anyways, it's nice to think about alternative perspectives.
 

Kingpin794

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It's interesting that in our 8 head to head matchups this season that the team with the shot advantage went 4-4, while the team with the better goaltending (by SV%) went 7-1, with that one loss being essentially even in shots (26-24) and decided in a shootout.

Good discussion anyways, it's nice to think about alternative perspectives.
Its a shame the OHL doesn't keep track of shot charts or grade A chances. That would be far more informative that just raw shot totals. Or even o zone/d zone possession times would be great. 35 shots where most are from bad angle isn't the same as 15 where you get 5 breakaways. The whole series between the Soo and Saginaw was weird this season. They essentially only played 2 games against each other where the teams where in their current post deadline form and (fairly) healthy. It's hard to glean a ton from 2 games.
 

donjohnson

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Save percentage isn't a great metric when you're not facing a lot of shots. Both Oke and Schenkel faced an average of 8 shots per period. In Oke's case, if he faced one more shot per period, his save percentage is .900.

In the offense-happy OHL, only facing 24 shots a game is not a high workload and it's tough to get in a rhythm. Again, if you've watched any Saginaw games, we give up a crapload of breakaways and 2on1's so Oke may be saving 100% of the shots he's supposed to stop and he's giving up 3 goals because he's hung out to dry and then his save percentage is shot.

I thought Oke played great in the Owen Sound series...game one started a little shaky which is to be expected in his first playoff start but games 2,3,4 he was lights out and I'm hoping it continues in the Soo series.
 

Fischhaber

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Stephen Colbert trashed the Soo on National TV back in 2007 when we played, that was fun

Jack Combs, Patrick Asselin, Dustin Jeffrey, Matt Lyall. Those names should bring back some memories.

The Don Cherry thing was in 2018. He didn't like that the Greyhounds celebrated their goals in an 8-0 win. That was a 55-7 team and there were a lot of games like that.
 

swoopster

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Save percentage isn't a great metric when you're not facing a lot of shots. Both Oke and Schenkel faced an average of 8 shots per period. In Oke's case, if he faced one more shot per period, his save percentage is .900.

In the offense-happy OHL, only facing 24 shots a game is not a high workload and it's tough to get in a rhythm. Again, if you've watched any Saginaw games, we give up a crapload of breakaways and 2on1's so Oke may be saving 100% of the shots he's supposed to stop and he's giving up 3 goals because he's hung out to dry and then his save percentage is shot.

I thought Oke played great in the Owen Sound series...game one started a little shaky which is to be expected in his first playoff start but games 2,3,4 he was lights out and I'm hoping it continues in the Soo series.
I have to agree with kingpins assessment on shot totals. The banner cry for Spirit fans was we outshot them x to <y. I listen to road games and don't have a tv cable package, and was begining to question these shot totals. Remember, earlier in the season it was the common gripe amoung the coaching staff that the team was being too cute and not shooting enough.

I believe in the concept that if you don't shoot you can't score, but goal scoring chances and shot for shots sake are two different realities. Don't get me wrong, shots on net lead to rebounds, I am clear with that. The Sabres Richard Martin, "he only shot, when he had the puck" comes to mind. Were the Spirit night after night running into truely hot tenders or was the shot selection suspect. A bad shot taken in lieu of a pass and better scoring chance rings true.

Anyway, I appreciate his point on better shot grading and other aspects that detail dominance rather than just SOG.
 
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