Post-Game Talk: Sabres @ Sens

[Micklebot]

It means he's ****ing dominant. Which he has been quite easily.

Don't know how a 44 pt pace qualifies as dominant. He's been good, but it's not like he's a defensive wizard, so he needs to bury more to be considered dominant, good +/- or not.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Don't know how a 44 pt pace qualifies as dominant. He's been good, but it's not like he's a defensive wizard, so he needs to bury more to be considered dominant, good +/- or not.

Come on now, we all watch the games. He creates grade A scoring chances individually almost every shift. His speed and game has revitalized Ryan, Zibanejad and whoever else he plays with and his PDO EV numbers are through the roof.

Not to mention every single point he's gotten has been on EV therefore he's actually tied for 6th in NHL in GonEV.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

It means he's ****ing dominant. Which he has been quite easily.

I watched both the Sabres game and the WJC last night. The way Hoffman plays, the things he does with the puck, and how he protects it, reminds me of some of the things the more skilled junior players are doing in that tournament. It's really impressive.

 

[Answer]

So what happens when Lazar comes back?

MacArthur - Turris - Stone

Hoffman - Pageau - Ryan

Chiasson - Zibanejad/Lazar - Zibanejad/Lazar

Michalek - Legwand - Condra

??

 

[Jaromir Jagrbombs]

Hoffman is a stud. Karlsson/Bobby/Pageau all had great games as well. And to top it off Greening finally did something useful this season by earning me a free Big Mac

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

If the Devils were shopping Jagr, I'd LOVE for the Senators to make a move for him solely so he can impart some Slick Mittens 101 to Hoffman and Ryan. Take them from advanced to EXPERT.

So many guys could learn from one of the masters. Plus, I'd waste ZERO time in buying a JAGR Sens jersey.

 

[Artanis]

I was at the game tonight, and wanted to say a few things.
Besides Greening taking a pretty dumb penalty, he was phsyical, and played fairly well.

Legwand was awful.
I thought Maccarthur was pretty invisible.
Hoffman was pretty exciting to watch live, guy is awesome.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

If the Devils were shopping Jagr, I'd LOVE for the Senators to make a move for him solely so he can impart some Slick Mittens 101 to Hoffman and Ryan. Take them from advanced to EXPERT.

So many guys could learn from one of the masters. Plus, I'd waste ZERO time in buying a JAGR Sens jersey.

Seriously.

You have a great point, though. We can't expect vets to always be coaches, but I think they could definitely learn some things.

 

[Larionov]

A month????

Quite possibly, yes. 60 stitches is a deep, nasty cut. All the tissue underneath needs to heal, and the cut itself needs to heal, and he will need to regain his range of motion in that area. He's young and will receive daily therapy, so maybe he can make it three weeks, but it's hard to see it being any sooner than that.

 

[BigRig4]

Missed the game but I heard Karl played well?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If we get Jagr and a top 3 D we are playoff team fairly easily.

Hoffman-Zibby/Pageau-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Jagr
Chiasson-Zibby/Pageau-Stone
Condra-Legwand-Lazar

DAT DEPTH BRUH.

The question is what do we do to get said top 2 D and Jagr.

Well, as you can see: Smith, Chiasson, Michalek, Greening, 2nd round picks, Wiercioch, Bingo prospects are available.

With some variation of the above it could work. Would completely suck if we end up not making playoffs but I highly doubt we don't.

 

[bonehead]

So what happens when Lazar comes back?

MacArthur - Turris - Stone

Hoffman - Pageau - Ryan

Chiasson - Zibanejad/Lazar - Zibanejad/Lazar

Michalek - Legwand - Condra

??

This looks pretty good. I'd have Lazar as the 3rd line RW to give Mika more time at centre. Next moves would be to ship out some excess bodies and give Prince 20 games with some decent linemates.

fwiw, I also think Greening has played well the past month. He's skating, using his size, making decent plays with the puck. I bet he'd pot a few goals if he had a centre like Pageau (fast, clever, good hands) to play off.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Missed the game but I heard Karl played well?

Very well. He made some terrific plays looked like his old self. He made risky plays but with the accuracy of the old Karlsson and they worked perfectly. We had a 3-0 down low cause of a beautiful read he made but Ryan missed 1on1 in tight.

He then made brilliant play on Ryan hattrick goal.

He looked really comfortable playing with a guy who can transition the puck too and shoot it effectively from the line(Wiercioch). It drew a lot of attention away from Karlsson and thus he wasn't pressured by 3 guys all the time.

2 assists +2 i believe 2 hits 26 mins speak for itself.

 

[Xspyrit]

Underwhelming yes, but also better than any other LD.

He hasn't been sheltered and has only had a positive impact. More than you can say about Phillips Cowen Boro

lol, no bias? Coaches seem to see it differently.

Methot
Cowen
Boro
Phillips
Wiericoch

is my LD depth chart

Wiercioch has been underwhelming this year. Methot has been unhealthy and Cowen has been regaining his game shape. Boro is decent in his role and Phillips is played out of his comfort zone because of Methot being unavailable...

Hopefully Wiercioch can revive his value and be an asset for this organization one again. I'm thinking they are taking a slowly but surely approach with him, they are working on certain parts of his game but hopefully he can put it all together at some point and regain his value. With all the injuries all the time, there's always an opportunity

Why were people so worried about having 8 D-men? We're always on the verge of having to call up one from Bingo...

Legwand looks so much better when not anchored by Neil and smith.

Ya and still LEADS THE TEAM in POWER PLAY GOALS AND is 2ND TO KARLSSON IN POWER PLAY POINTS

Joke's on this board and gosh I find it hilarious

Actually he's been solid more often than not. I would even say that he's had more solid games than Phillips.

There is this theory on this board that he gets out muscled all the time. I don't see it. I see him getting burned because he's slow, but not out muscled.

Watching hockey is not an exact science and not everybody has the same pair of eyes it seems.

There is also a simple fact omitted in your analysis which makes your point invalid, or even inexistent : ice-time and quality of opposition. Phillips has been replacing Methot on the top pairing with Karlsson. On the other hand, Wiercioch is still sheltered.

Wiercioch's 5v5 GA/60 right now is 0.87.

The next closest among Ottawa defenders is Gryba at 1.92.

Obviously he's doing something right while he's out there.

Sheltered and smaller sample size... However I'm thinking he has improved defensively but his offense took a huge hit to accomplish that... If he's not here for his offense, why is he here for?

 

[Micklebot]

Come on now, we all watch the games. He creates grade A scoring chances individually almost every shift. His speed and game has revitalized Ryan, Zibanejad and whoever else he plays with and his PDO EV numbers are through the roof.

Not to mention every single point he's gotten has been on EV therefore he's actually tied for 6th in NHL in GonEV.

Don't get me wrong, I like him, but PDO numbers after 33 games are not indicative of being dominant, in fact, they are often used as a signal that someone might be due to regress. Goal based stats take about a full season's worth of ice time to normalize, it's way to early to read much into PDO (if there's ever much you can read into it).

As for 6th in ES goals; is Hudler dominant? Comeau? Tanguay, Kadri or Zucker?

Good player, but dominant is reserved for guys like Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Crosby, et al. Hoffman has a long way to go.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

I'm liking wiercioch's game this year. He's been solid positionally and is the only LD on the team that can effectively move the puck up ice on his own. Despite a lack of foot speed, his shiftyness allows him to skate the puck up ice and open up passing lanes.

His "softness" is overstated. Watch clips of Corvo if you want to see soft. Wier may not be overly physical, but I don't' see him bailing on plays.

The only issue is his speed. He often moves just fast enough, a little faster and he'd have no pressure but instead he ends up in puck battles and having to make a pass along the boards to his partner.

'Better than Corvo' isn't exactly resume material....

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Don't get me wrong, I like him, but PDO numbers after 33 games are not indicative of being dominant, in fact, they are often used as a signal that someone might be due to regress. Goal based stats take about a full season's worth of ice time to normalize, it's way to early to read much into PDO (if there's ever much you can read into it).

As for 6th in ES goals; is Hudler dominant? Comeau? Tanguay, Kadri or Zucker?

Good player, but dominant is reserved for guys like Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Crosby, et al. Hoffman has a long way to go.

Are those guys rookies? Are those guys playing like their best forward and creating the same individual offense like Hoffman? Nah.

Hoffman has been dominant relative to his role, status and position on this team. Context just as important in my use of the word as the production is.

Hoffman is not a dominant NHL player but he has been dominant for the Sens.

 

[Micklebot]

lol, no bias? Coaches seem to see it differently.

Methot
Cowen
Boro
Phillips
Wiericoch

is my LD depth chart

Wiercioch has been underwhelming this year. Methot has been unhealthy and Cowen has been regaining his game shape. Boro is decent in his role and Phillips is played out of his comfort zone because of Methot being unavailable...

Hopefully Wiercioch can revive his value and be an asset for this organization one again. I'm thinking they are taking a slowly but surely approach with him, they are working on certain parts of his game but hopefully he can put it all together at some point and regain his value. With all the injuries all the time, there's always an opportunity

Why were people so worried about having 8 D-men? We're always on the verge of having to call up one from Bingo...



Ya and still LEADS THE TEAM in POWER PLAY GOALS AND is 2ND TO KARLSSON IN POWER PLAY POINTS

Joke's on this board and gosh I find it hilarious



Watching hockey is not an exact science and not everybody has the same pair of eyes it seems.

There is also a simple fact omitted in your analysis which makes your point invalid, or even inexistent : ice-time and quality of opposition. Phillips has been replacing Methot on the top pairing with Karlsson. On the other hand, Wiercioch is still sheltered.



Sheltered and smaller sample size... However I'm thinking he has improved defensively but his offense took a huge hit to accomplish that... If he's not here for his offense, why is he here for?

Phillips and Wiercioch's QOC aren't as far off as you'd like to believe, and Wier has been getting more and more time with Karlsson, while Phillips has been moving away from that role (thankfully).

As for his offense taking a huge hit, I think you may be being fooled by small samples. Points will come when you're dominating possession like he has, though I'd agree he had some rusty games coming off the bench, he's been very effective at moving the puck up ice and getting the puck on net lately.

Wiercioch has played much improved since his first few games this year imo.

 

[Micklebot]

Are those guys rookies? Are those guys playing like their best forward and creating the same individual offense like Hoffman? Nah.

Hoffman has been dominant relative to his role, status and position on this team. Context just as important in my use of the word as the production is.

Hoffman is not a dominant NHL player but he has been dominant for the Sens.

Ok then, so long as we agree that he's not actually dominant, just playing real well in his given role, and that it in no way is dominant relative to other NHL players, you know, like Forsberg has been or maybe Gaudreau. Heck, I'd even throw Ekblad in the mix. As it stands, Hoffman won't even be a finalist for the Calder, but you're thowing around the dominant word (in the sense of him being a rookie, and for the sens).

To me, if you want to call a 25 year old player dominant, he best be doing something special. I'm not sure Hoffman qualifies.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I enjoyed my free Big Mac today after my hockey game.

Thanks Colin Greening!

 

[Rodzilla]

Weircioch doesn't loose puck battles? Damn I must be watching different games, sure he's smart and has good vision but I am sorry he is crazy weak. Too bad if a game against a bottom 5 team changes everyone's mind. When he gets there at the same time as the opposition he looses the puck I'd say half the time or even more than half, I am not talking about when he goes into the corner first, this isn't a puck battle. He also gets beat a lot on speed like people said.

I want him to succeed but he needs work in the gym and kitchen and it is quite obvious. Also he never plays and he is sheltered a lot which means he must not be doing so good out there to the NHL eyes

 

[God Says No]

There is also a simple fact omitted in your analysis which makes your point invalid, or even inexistent : ice-time and quality of opposition. Phillips has been replacing Methot on the top pairing with Karlsson. On the other hand, Wiercioch is still sheltered.

Wrong again, please see Micklebot's post. He may have been sheltered in the past, but not as much this year. He's been playing against better competition and has played well. The last 2 games have not been the only 2 good games he's played.

To be fair though, Phillips had a good game as well. He seems to play a lot better after sitting out a couple games.

Sheltered and smaller sample size... However I'm thinking he has improved defensively but his offense took a huge hit to accomplish that... If he's not here for his offense, why is he here for?

I don't know, maybe to play defense which he seems to be doing a much better job than Phillips. I'm not too concerned with his lack of offensive output. It will come around, as long as he plays well defensively. Which should be the number one thing for all the D on this team.

Weircioch doesn't loose puck battles? Damn I must be watching different games, sure he's smart and has good vision but I am sorry he is crazy weak. Too bad if a game against a bottom 5 team changes everyone's mind. When he gets there at the same time as the opposition he looses the puck I'd say half the time or even more than half, I am not talking about when he goes into the corner first, this isn't a puck battle. He also gets beat a lot on speed like people said.

I want him to succeed but he needs work in the gym and kitchen and it is quite obvious. Also he never plays and he is sheltered a lot which means he must not be doing so good out there to the NHL eyes

Again, please give me some concrete examples when he was out muscled. Like you said, he might get beat to the puck, but I just don't see it in games where he goes into the boards and does not come out with the puck. This seems to be some kind of a myth that gets echoed. He may have been like that in the past, but I've been watching the games he's been in and I don't see it.

So can you give me some concrete in game examples please?

 

[Larionov]

Weircioch doesn't loose puck battles? Damn I must be watching different games, sure he's smart and has good vision but I am sorry he is crazy weak. Too bad if a game against a bottom 5 team changes everyone's mind. When he gets there at the same time as the opposition he looses the puck I'd say half the time or even more than half, I am not talking about when he goes into the corner first, this isn't a puck battle. He also gets beat a lot on speed like people said.

I want him to succeed but he needs work in the gym and kitchen and it is quite obvious. Also he never plays and he is sheltered a lot which means he must not be doing so good out there to the NHL eyes

I think this is all fairly accurate. A lot of young players don't "get" what it takes to succeed at the NHL level. They surfed by on their natural talent right up to the NHL level, and think that all it takes is some cardio work and time on the ice before camp and they're all good. After all, that's all they did before their seasons in "AAA" Midget, Junior, or College.

Look at veterans like Phillips - say what you will about that guy, but he is in ridiculous shape, and really takes care of himself in terms of training and fitness. That's why he is still able to play in the league at age 36. I also think of guys like Gary Roberts or Alfie who were religious about training and fitness, and who were able to stay in the league a long time as a result. OTOH, Dany Heatley is now washing out partially because his conditioning just never was all that terrific.

Weircioch is at a crossroads in his career, and I am shocked that he didn't take last summer to gain 10 pounds of muscle and work with a power skating specialist. If he wants to be an NHL player going forward, he'd better do it this off-season...