Confirmed with Link: Sabres hire a VP of Hockey Strategy and Research

[tsujimoto74]

What doesn't make sense is Quinn was behind Rossi, Lundell, and Perfetti according to virtually all of the mainstream analytics guys. This leads me to believe that they really didn't emphasize the analytics that much and focused instead on just getting a "winger for Jack".

I don't think that's the case at all. (As an aside, I was and still am 100% with passing on Perfetti because his skating needs to improve drastically for him to become someone you want on your NHL team.) I think they drafted the guy they thought would be the best NHL player. They liked Quinn because he drove his own line offensively, was leaned on a lot defensively, and also scored a f***ton of goals. Whether they got it right or not is an open question, but I don't doubt for a second that their strategy was "draft BPA".

 

[Jim Bob]

They touched on the hire after the Eichel talk that starts around the 20:00 mark.

They felt like he had options and coming here with Karmanos means that he will get a voice in the decision making process and this isn't just a check the box hire.

 

[BloFan4Life]

Maybe Adams knows what the f*** he’s doing after all.

Adams is essentially the President of this team. Karmanos seems to be the GM. Him being allowed to bring in his buddy, is an even bigger sign of this.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Adams is essentially the President of this team. Karmanos seems to be the GM. Him being allowed to bring in his buddy, is an even bigger sign of this.

Which isn’t a bad set up. If the structure is good, the titles can be whatever.

 

[BloFan4Life]

Which isn’t a bad set up. If the structure is good, the titles can be whatever.

Agreed. I like former players in the role that is seems Adams is operating in. I feel like they allow the people under them to operate without interference more than a guy that has never played before. They know how the NHL generally operates, but they know they need help on the details.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Agreed. I like former players in the role that is seems Adams is operating in. I feel like they allow the people under them to operate without interference more than a guy that has never played before. They know how the NHL generally operates, but they know they need help on the details.

The military has a set up sort of like this type of set up.

Each military commander has a staff and subordinate commanders. Think a President/CEO with a COO and staff, then some VP's.

But, each commander has a Command Sergeant Major (CSM), starting at the battalion level. The CSM oversees enlisted personnel management, training quality assurance, and enlisted leader training.

But the CSM's most important duty is to advise the commander. I began my command in 2017, and had 18 years of experience at that point. My CSM had 28 years of experience when I started. Part of his job was to give me advice on what to do, because he'd serve from the lowest level to the highest on the enlisted side, and basically seen and did everything. A whole lot of "This is what I'd do," and "One time we were in a similar situation and this is what we did." Even some "I wouldn't do that sh$t if I was you."

If Adams is filling that type of role, but as the guy in charge making sure things stay on track, I'm completely ok with that.

 

[SackTastic]

using analytics means incorporating it into the decision making process. It does not mean letting analytics dictate decisions

edit: also, a lot of analytics people did like Quinn!

100% this. It also seems to be lost of many that hockey analytics are still nowhere close to being robust enough to be a primary decision driver. A large portion of the hockey analytics community seems more focused on Sexy Graph Generation than actually backtesting theories for validity and usefulness.

 

[SackTastic]

If Adams is filling that type of role, but as the guy in charge making sure things stay on track, I'm completely ok with that.

I would feel much more comfortable with the franchise direction if that was the case. ( And if the direction of that track developed from the smart people and not whatever Terry or his daughters read on Twitter.)

 

[The Blunder Years]

Adam’s
Granato
Karmanos
Ventura
Nightingale

me likey

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Duddy]

This hire won't make or break the franchise, but it has potential to be a little building block on the way up.

 

[BloFan4Life]

This hire won't make or break the franchise, but it has potential to be a little building block on the way up.

I think this hire has screamed the loudest in terms of where the future of this front office is headed. This hire was HUGE. Sam seems good, but overall, this is exactly what we needed to show things are different. This cemented to me that the front office will be a collaboration, and they will truly be looking at the numbers.

I never thought the cleaning house of the front office in beginning of pandemic was cost cutting, and to me, this shows that is was more about not getting the results, and they needed to pivot into a new direction. They have done this in terms of bringing in Karmanos and Sam, two guys HEAVILY analytical based.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I think this hire has screamed the loudest in terms of where the future of this front office is headed. This hire was HUGE. Sam seems good, but overall, this is exactly what we needed to show things are different. This cemented to me that the front office will be a collaboration, and they will truly be looking at the numbers.

I never thought the cleaning house of the front office in beginning of pandemic was cost cutting, and to me, this shows that is was more about not getting the results, and they needed to pivot into a new direction. They have done this in terms of bringing in Karmanos and Sam, two guys HEAVILY analytical based.

God i hope so. I have gotten hopes up so many times with front office hiring that it's hard to not be skeptical. Once burned and all....

 

[Buffaloed]

Originally Ventura got interested in analytics because he thought it would be helpful in locating lost and stolen pets. He found a sports applications for it from his former career as a professional wrestler.

 

[Jeremy2020]

I haven't read the thread, but since he's from the Penguins, I assume this has made the usual quarters very angry.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Originally Ventura got interested in analytics because he thought it would be helpful in locating lost and stolen pets. He found a sports applications for it from his former career as a professional wrestler.

He’s pretty accomplished. He once was the Governor of Minnesota, so he knows hockey for sure. He was also a Navy SEAL (UDT) so I wouldn’t screw with his decisions.

Interestingly, his blot clots really fast when cut. He doesn’t have time for it.

 

[Jeremy2020]

I never thought the cleaning house of the front office in beginning of pandemic was cost cutting, and to me, this shows that is was more about not getting the results, and they needed to pivot into a new direction.

If you ignore the stupid noise that gets generated, it's pretty clear that while cutting costs was part of it, the underlying reason was the Pegulas were listening to "hockey people" and using firms recommended by the NHL to hire people and spending a lot of money for no results. I equate it to if you give a director unlimited time and money to make a movie then they will very likely make a bad movie. I know personally, if I'm throwing money at a problem and not getting result from the experts I've hired... I'm annoyed.

I have a similar situation with my dog. She has some sort of itch/rash on her back legs. I've been to 3 different vets and they keep saying flea allergy (despite they could not find a single shred of evidence of fleas) and I've spent thousands and have a strict regimen for combatting a flea allergy for over 2 years now with no results. So now I demand data.. and the only reason they can really give me for their suggestion of fleas is.. "Well, it's usually fleas". So now I absolutely grill the vet on everything, do some internet research to ask them questions, and spend next to no money on their recommendations without proof. That vet has to HATE me. I'm not really getting better results, but I'm spending way less money for the same results.

I can only imagine how annoyed I would be if I'm spending the money they do and getting the results they have been with the Sabres. It's not straight up about money...it's about the results they get from other people spending their money.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[joshjull]

Much of Sabres Twitter loves to have a hissy fit over any rumors.

 

[SackTastic]

If you ignore the stupid noise that gets generated, it's pretty clear that while cutting costs was part of it, the underlying reason was the Pegulas were listening to "hockey people" and using firms recommended by the NHL to hire people and spending a lot of money for no results. I equate it to if you give a director unlimited time and money to make a movie then they will very likely make a bad movie. I know personally, if I'm throwing money at a problem and not getting result from the experts I've hired... I'm annoyed.

I have a similar situation with my dog. She has some sort of itch/rash on her back legs. I've been to 3 different vets and they keep saying flea allergy (despite they could not find a single shred of evidence of fleas) and I've spent thousands and have a strict regimen for combatting a flea allergy for over 2 years now with no results. So now I demand data.. and the only reason they can really give me for their suggestion of fleas is.. "Well, it's usually fleas". So now I absolutely grill the vet on everything, do some internet research to ask them questions, and spend next to no money on their recommendations without proof. That vet has to HATE me. I'm not really getting better results, but I'm spending way less money for the same results.

I can only imagine how annoyed I would be if I'm spending the money they do and getting the results they have been with the Sabres. It's not straight up about money...it's about the results they get from other people spending their money.

I hope your dog gets better, but your analogy is pretty bad.

You're still going to vets.

The Pegulas were hiring recommended hockey people with experience, AND MEDDLING IN THE PROCESS. So instead of realizing what the actual problems were, they blamed the hockey people.

 

[Buffaloed]

He’s pretty accomplished. He once was the Governor of Minnesota, so he knows hockey for sure. He was also a Navy SEAL (UDT) so I wouldn’t screw with his decisions.

Interestingly, his blot clots really fast when cut. He doesn’t have time for it.

He developed the VIH (Ventura Information Highway), a proprietary system data collection system.

 

[BloFan4Life]

Two things I don't get:

The obsession people have with creating NHL rumors (Thanks Eklund).

The obsession people have with believing/debating rumors.

Some dude literally made a website called nhlrumors.com and posts anything he wants on it. People then RT and spread this crap. WHY?!?

 

[BloFan4Life]

I assumed correctly

Nightingale still Director of Analytics too. He just now has someone above him that directly deals with Analytics.

Associate General Manager	Jason Karmanos
Vice President of Hockey Administration	Mark Jakubowski
VP of Hockey Strategy and Research	Sam Ventura
Director of Pro Scouting	Jeremiah Crowe
Director of Amateur Scouting	Jerry Forton
Director of Analytics & Assistant Director of Scouting	Jason Nightingale

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Der Jaeger]

He developed the VIH (Ventura Information Highway), a proprietary system data collection system.

you win. That’s all I had.

 

[Jeremy2020]

I hope your dog gets better, but your analogy is pretty bad.

You're still going to vets.

The Pegulas were hiring recommended hockey people with experience, AND MEDDLING IN THE PROCESS. So instead of realizing what the actual problems were, they blamed the hockey people.

I disagree. The Pegulas didn't make botteril an idiot or the coaches bad coaches...

Also, we don't know the extent of the Pegulas meddling. A lot of people are very sure about this, but I've yet to see a report that was something more than feelings about what their meddling actually was... this reminds me of the years that people freaked out about Overdorf on the Bills as some secret GM.