Confirmed with Link: Sabres hire a VP of Hockey Strategy and Research

[Beerz]

To be fair, that is a quote that shows an ownership group that meddles, whether it's for player reasons or hockey department personnel reasons. That hockey department is something the GM uses to make his life easier, and possibly more streamlined to get information quickly and get as many input from men he trusts. While the owners have full rights to worry about the finances of the department and the investment portion of the department, messing with how a hockey department is structured, when the GM is the one that will be using the department more frequently than anybody else to do their job, to oversee the GM's vision of a team, is impacting the effectiveness of said GM and his job.

I mean if you want to call an owner meddling because he wants to restructure the front office so be it.

But it's pretty clear to me now what happened that day. The Pegulas saw a lot of fat in the front office..so they stripped it bare and started over essentially. By that quote it sounds like Botterill was not on board with this move. We now see the formation of a new power structure and new operating structure within the front office. They did not just rush to fill these positions..they are taking their time and hopefully getting it right. I am sure more moves are to come in the future.
I still don't know if Adams is a good GM but he seems like a good manager.
We will see what the future holds.

 

[Jeremy2020]

Contracts of that magnitude always require ownership approval to be traded. Terry Pegula knew exactly what the Sabres were getting in return.

I'm confused. He was supposed to understand the quality of the players they were getting and how they fit the team? That seems like the definition of meddling to me.

The owner saying "I don't want to pay this guy 7.5 million" wouldn't be a decision I liked, but Golisano did a lot of that and there's people on this forum (you may recognize some of them) heralding his ownership.

There's a lot of assumptions out there with vague "If you knew what I knew" proof going on, but how did those dynamics play out if Pegula forcing the trade is the case? Did Pegula say 'take whatever you get as long as he's gone before we pay him?' Was there a conversation where Botterill called Pegula and said, "Look the only deal out there is this absolute garbage deal. I don't want to take it." and get told no?

The Pegulas have made bad hires, but the drive to paint them as mustache twirling villains' who don't care as long as they get their way and can save money is rather extreme.

 

[Ginger Papa]

Hi folks,

Congratulations on the hire. It’s nice to stop in and read most of you are feeling good about this as well. As many of you have mentioned, it’s a small step, but one that appears to be in the right direction. Hopefully more to come as your management team continues to fill out.

Also hope everyone here is having a great summer with your families.

Cheers,

 

[66-30-33]

Enjoy Ventura. I am guessing Hextall wants to bring in his own guy to the Pens, although Sam also got a promotion which he was never going to get here. Hopefully he does better then Botts for you guys.

 

[joshjull]

Source? I've never heard anything remotely close to this. What was reported was that Botts' father coached Krueger and he was reportedly a friend of the family that Botts wanted to hire the first time around before settling for Housley.

Same

Our roster was over the salary cap, we had one of the largest front offices in the league, and we had one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the league. Despite all the financial resources the Pegulas put into the franchise we were still one of the worst teams in the league.

I’m aware of all this. The point of my post was those quotes don’t fit with the idea the poster I quoted was pushing of Botts as the Pegulas puppet. If that was true he would have done what they asked and they wouldn’t need to fire him.

I think a lot of what they told the media was just word salad, particularly the flat management stuff. I think they used the pandemic as an excuse to gut the house down to the foundation and always intended to build it back up properly. They just didn't want to rebuild while there was so much uncertainty about being able to play the season, having fans in the stands, etc. So as a result they gave Krueger a chance to sink or swim, and if you don't want him to fall back on "well I didn't have the right players" excuse, you let him do the grocery shopping (to quote good ole Parcells)

The flat management talk was no word salad. It was the new reality. You basically admit as much later in your post but seem to pass it off as the Pegulas giving Krueger enough rope to hang himself. When in reality they thought they found their McDermitt for the Sabres. So Krueger was given a ton of power over the roster like McDermitt had when he first took over.

Be glad things failed so spectacularly under Krueger. It gave Adams the opening to make his case for firing Krueger and getting rid of the flat management structure.


They may have been planning to rebuild things during this offseason. But i can pretty much guarantee an organization with Krueger still at the top would not have hired Karmanos or Ventura. Ralph would want nothing to do with analytics guys or more cooks in the kitchen challenging his pov. .

 

[Fezzy126]

The flat management talk was no word salad. It was the new reality. You basically admit as much later in your post but seem to pass it off as the Pegulas giving Krueger enough rope to hang himself. When in reality they thought they found their McDermitt for the Sabres. So Krueger was given a ton of power over the roster like McDermitt had when he first took over.

Be glad things failed so spectacularly under Krueger. It gave Adams the opening to make his case for firing Krueger and getting rid of the flat management structure.

They may have been planning to rebuild things during this offseason. But i can pretty much guarantee an organization with Krueger still at the top would not have hired Karmanos or Ventura. Ralph would want nothing to do with analytics guys or more cooks in the kitchen challenging his pov.

I admitted that Adams provided Krueger with the type of players he wanted, that's very different than Krueger being in charge. My overall point was that they were never going to have Ralph pick the players as the full time plan. The "flat" structure was only referring to the communciation plan - there were many articles that pointed out that the Pegulas were isolated from personnel under Botterill, so they had no idea what was going on with the team.

This was a quote from one of the articles upon Adams hiring:

Together with coach Ralph Krueger - whose background is similarly diverse to Adams' - they envision a workflow and line of communication similar to what's been established with general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott of the Buffalo Bills.
Who will fill out the remainder of Buffalo's hockey operations is still to be decided, but Adams expects to surround himself with people he can lean on and who will be willing to hold him accountable. Such was the atmosphere he cultivated at the Academy of Hockey.
"Kev was instrumental in putting together a team of people who had certain strengths, offset certain things, were able to basically take on a role and the people that he brought in, kind of allowing them the autonomy to do their thing," Ellis said.
"And that was something that really, really struck me that I've carried with me. He understood strengths. He understood values and roles. He understood there are certain things certain people are better at and if you get the right people in the right seats on the bus, you're going to drive toward some great things especially if the vision if cohesive and connected."

The flat management structure was only talked about in reference to their line of communications with the owners. There were never any references to Krueger being a primary decision maker with the roster or the front office, that was completely perpetuated from message boards and social media. However, even with all of the talk about efficiency, Adams continually emphasized that he was in charge and that he would eventually rebuild the front office. In all of the interviews and Sabres production videos, Krueger was working remotely from overseas. If he was such a central power figure in the front office wouldn't he have been more involved and working locally?

 

[sabremike]

I'm confused. He was supposed to understand the quality of the players they were getting and how they fit the team? That seems like the definition of meddling to me.

The owner saying "I don't want to pay this guy 7.5 million" wouldn't be a decision I liked, but Golisano did a lot of that and there's people on this forum (you may recognize some of them) heralding his ownership.

There's a lot of assumptions out there with vague "If you knew what I knew" proof going on, but how did those dynamics play out if Pegula forcing the trade is the case? Did Pegula say 'take whatever you get as long as he's gone before we pay him?' Was there a conversation where Botterill called Pegula and said, "Look the only deal out there is this absolute garbage deal. I don't want to take it." and get told no?

The Pegulas have made bad hires, but the drive to paint them as mustache twirling villains' who don't care as long as they get their way and can save money is rather extreme.

Golisano was somewhat forgiven for his cheapness because, you know, he literally saved the team when it was on it's deathbed and is thus the single biggest hero in Sabres history.

 

[joshjull]

I admitted that Adams provided Krueger with the type of players he wanted, that's very different than Krueger being in charge. My overall point was that they were never going to have Ralph pick the players as the full time plan. The "flat" structure was only referring to the communciation plan - there were many articles that pointed out that the Pegulas were isolated from personnel under Botterill, so they had no idea what was going on with the team.

This was a quote from one of the articles upon Adams hiring:



The flat management structure was only talked about in reference to their line of communications with the owners. There were never any references to Krueger being a primary decision maker with the roster or the front office, that was completely perpetuated from message boards and social media. However, even with all of the talk about efficiency, Adams continually emphasized that he was in charge and that he would eventually rebuild the front office. In all of the interviews and Sabres production videos, Krueger was working remotely from overseas. If he was such a central power figure in the front office wouldn't he have been more involved and working locally?

Several things

1) The flat management structure wasn’t just about communication. It was about getting the Pegulas directly involved in strategy as co-equals with Krueger/Adams. If you don’t believe me maybe Ralph can convince you.


“The Pegulas have been actively involved in all the discussions we’ve had strategically here over the last months and we’ve had very many of those. It’s just a very healthy environment right now. Everything is on the table.”

Krueger’s influence growing under Sabres GM Adams

2) Adams was a new GM with next to no relevant experience and no senior staff at all (no assistant or associate GMs). So the owners and Krueger took those roles in this structure they created. A four headed monster if you will. It didn’t make Krueger the top dog but it did give him enormous influence over the roster which brings me to #3…

3) Adams didn’t get the “types of players” Krueger wanted. He got the specific players Krueger wanted. Many having personal connections to him.

4) Krueger worked remotely during a pandemic. Something tens of millions of people did around the world. But in your mind thats supposed to mean he had no influence. Odd logic there. He would still be able to participate in all meetings and tell Adams the players he’d like him to target.

5) The talk about Krueger’s influence on last years roster came from local and national reporters and was picked up on here. Friedman and Dreger would talk about it during their radio hits for example and guys like Hoppe, Lysowski and I think Yerdon talked about it locally. Vogl may have as well, can’t remember.

It took the embarrassment of this past season to blow up this management creation. Maybe it would have died anyway with Adams hiring more high level staff and not needing the “help” he was getting from the Pegulas and Krueger. Or maybe it would have continued with no upper level guys brought in. Just the lower staff filled out.

 

[Buffaloed]

I like the direction they're going. I think a big part of the Sabres problems have been due to the people at the top telling the Pegulas what they think they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. Another problem has been that they pander to the Pegulas so if Terry says he likes or doesn't like certain players they direct their efforts to please Terry rather than doing what's right for the team. I think Adams is the first GM under this ownership that's going to give Terry the straight dope.

 

[SackTastic]

The first part of that quote is talking about how Pegula felt he wasn’t listened to by Botts. Odd thing for a puppet master to say about his puppet.


The quote in total is talking about the new “flat management” they were going to go with post Botts and post front office purge. Where the Terry, Kim, Krueger and Adams were all on the same level in the management structure. Thats not meddling. That’s becoming part of the front office structure.

My interpretation of that comment was "We are telling Botts what to do, and he is saying he doesn't want to do it, so the puppet has been cutting his strings and we don't want that."

I do respect your interpretation of it, I just read it in a different way. ( Likely some bias on my part from many other things that feed my conclusion they are constantly meddling.)

 

[SackTastic]

A non meddling owner would have told McDermitt the same thing. Whaley is the GM so these are his decisions.


When the “meddling” works out no one gives a shit. But Terry very much “stuck his nose in” to ensure the head coach could act as GM. Then effectively allowed him to bring in his buddy as GM.


I’m hoping Terry allowing Adams to do his thing since Krueger got canned is another happy accident that works out like McBeane has.

That is fair, although I think it's a reasonable assumption that after McD was hired, everyone already knew that Whaley was going to be gone after the draft. It was widely speculated at the time that McD took the job on the condition that Beane was going to be coming with him, but they all agreed to wait until after the draft. Speculation of course though.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I like the direction they're going. I think a big part of the Sabres problems have been due to the people at the top telling the Pegulas what they think they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. Another problem has been that they pander to the Pegulas so if Terry says he likes or doesn't like certain players they direct their efforts to please Terry rather than doing what's right for the team. I think Adams is the first GM under this ownership that's going to give Terry the straight dope.

There's always a Bills connection with every Pegula post. Doug Whaley said last year Terry Pegula liked Patrick Mahomes. Whaley was the GM at that time but obviously McDermott was running the show. McDermott knew a cap crunch was coming the following year and didn't want to bring a franchise QB in a year early.

Obviously we'd love to have have Mahomes but the point is just because Terry says he likes something doesn't mean it has to happen. McDermott had a plan and stuck to it.

 

[Chainshot]

Short answer - about f***ing time.

 

[Jim Bob]

Data May Not Drive Play, But It Should Drive Decisions

 

[Jim Bob]

https://www.expectedbuffalo.com/exp...res-history-class-sam-ventura-and-war-on-ice/

 

[threeVo]

There's always a Bills connection with every Pegula post. Doug Whaley said last year Terry Pegula liked Patrick Mahomes. Whaley was the GM at that time but obviously McDermott was running the show. McDermott knew a cap crunch was coming the following year and didn't want to bring a franchise QB in a year early.

Obviously we'd love to have have Mahomes but the point is just because Terry says he likes something doesn't mean it has to happen. McDermott had a plan and stuck to it.

The whole Mahomes vs Allen debate is stupid to me. Teams were in much different places and Allen would be the one with a SB ring on that team with all the talent they already had in place and Reid to coach him. Bills made the right move given the time and situation. 9 teams passed on Mahomes, it wasnt like he was a home run #1 pick like TLaw.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Buffaloed]

Mixing the Sabres with science makes me nervous. I'm seeing a "Honey I Shrunk the Team" scenario.

 

[hizzoner]

Mixing the Sabres with science makes me nervous. I'm seeing a "Honey I Shrunk the Team" scenario.

Well we already have the Invisible Man

 

[Jim Bob]

NHL teams have more data than ever; figuring out what matters is new test

Taking all the data available and using them to make better decisions is the secret sauce.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

For those that prefer YT