Sabres Expansion Draft Protection Discussion (Skinner waives NMC for Draft)

[brian_griffin]

It really depends on what they're looking at. They do have to get to the cap floor so they'll have to take some guys with salary to get there. It's one of the reasons I think that moving Risto, Bjork and a 3rd to Seattle for them to take Okposo could make some sense. Risto is only one year and Okposo only 2. This gives them some salary and extra assets to boot, allowing them to focus on collecting younger assets from the other teams. Plus, Botts was a big fan of both players while he was here.

Given the rules, I think they'll have absolutely no problem whatsoever drafting a roster of 30 players with a combined salary of ~48.9$M, and eventually icing a 23-man roster of ~$60M, and they won't need to take on the Sabres bad-value contracts to do so.

Nevermind my personal view that Risto, Bjork, and a 3rd just to take Okposo is an overpayment.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

Given the rules, I think they'll have absolutely no problem whatsoever drafting a roster of 30 players with a combined salary of ~48.9$M, and eventually icing a 23-man roster of ~$60M, and they won't need to take on the Sabres bad-value contracts to do so.

Nevermind my personal view that Risto, Bjork, and a 3rd just to take Okposo is an overpayment.

I agree there’s no chance they would take back that much cap but man would unloading Risto and Okposo open a lot of doors to really restructure this roster for next year

 

[Der Jaeger]

Quick - hard pass on that contract and LA doesn't have another goalie to expose
Allen - He and Ullmark would be a really solid 1-1A combo if the Sabres could re-sign Linus after the ED
Holtby - Vancouver doesn't have another goalie to expose. But, he would be an interesting 1-1A combo option
Vanecek - He would be an interesting pick up and would be able to fit nicely both short and medium term
DeSmith - Pittsburgh doesn't have another goalie to expose. But, he would be an interesting 1-1A combo option for a year

Allen & Vanecek would be the two best potential options in general because the other team doesn't need to worry about having a goalie to expose after the deal.

I don't know that Risto works for either team from a cap POV. But it would be interesting to see if guys like Bjork, Thompson, Girgensons, or Asplund were a fit.

re: Pittsburgh and Vancouver, what am I missing? Vancouver will protect Demko and the Pens will protect Jarry.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I do wonder if re-signing McCabe indicates if Risto is staying or going.

Let's face it, the McCabe-Risto pairing was mostly dominant before COVID. They were a legit top-pair. If they can rekindle that....with Dahlin-Jokiharju as another very solid pairing..........that gives us a truckload of options for the 3rd pair, most of which is already in-house (Samuelsson, Bryson, Borgen, etc).

If McCabe’s knee is good. And that’s a HUGE if.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Two interesting names who will probably go unprotected: Bellows and Kunin.

if Adams can make an early protection deal with Seattle, then he might be able to trade picks for them and add some talent.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

If McCabe’s knee is good. And that’s a HUGE if.

It usually takes over a year to recover so that has him missing at least the first 3mo of next season. Even then he won't be back to full strength

 

[brian_griffin]

It usually takes over a year to recover so that has him missing at least the first 3mo of next season. Even then he won't be back to full strength

Agreed.

Separate but related, question to all, not just ONG:
When was the last time an injured pending UFA - Sabre or otherwise - went until Christmas / mid-season before signing with a team?

McCabe is shy of the required 400 NHL games to sign a 1-year incentive-laden contract injured players are eligible to sign. (He would otherwise meet the additional 100-days injured-in-the-past-year requirement.)

I remember Teppo came back from the heart issue to play in the final game of the season against the Bruins, but he was under contract that entire season.

 

[Jim Bob]

re: Pittsburgh and Vancouver, what am I missing? Vancouver will protect Demko and the Pens will protect Jarry.

Vancouver and Pittsburgh don't have another goalie to expose in the expansion draft if they move Holtby/DeSmith.

And Buffalo can't say offer up Tokarski+Risto for Holtby because the Sabres won't have a goalie they can expose. In theory, either Buffalo or Van/Pitt could trade for a UFA-to-be goalie that they want as an organizational #3 and sign that player to a deal for next season prior to the ED.

But, they would have to make sure that they can sign that goalie and they may not want to.

It's just a complicating factor in all of this and it is made worse for Buffalo because they don't have multiple goalies that meet the ED requirements for being exposed.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

First, unless you have evidence that the Pegulas were involved in the negotiations, stop crediting/blaming them.

Second, I have already said Asplund is valued higher now. And yes the injury matters.

Girgensons is an unknown, whether that contract is overpaid or not, at the very most. Seeing how neutered the rest of the team was under Ralph, and the gap of difference in play from the team when they are just allowed to play hockey under Granato, I'd wager to bet that we would be seeing a guy playing at his 15/15 mark he had earlier in his career when you take the reigns off of him and allowed him to just play.

When you have a team that is paying multiple $9+ million dollar/yr contracts then, yes, those 500-750k guys come in handy to help with the cap situation. When you are a brand new team, that will be building a team, and probably looking at $6-$7 million/yr contracts players at the most, you can be more flexible on value of contracts. Add in the absolute stealing and circumstance of how well Vegas did, I'm sure teams will be a little more careful "helping" another expansion team.

The Girgensons contract was an overpayment, according to pretty much every commentator in the NHL -- in the context of the last off season.

And to think Pegulas are not directly involved? Watch the UFA signing period on www.sabres.com -- they practically brag about the involvement of Kim and Terry and being in the room. You look at deals like O'Reilly where he had to be traded July 1 or pay $7.5 M and gets moved day before. That's ownership. We were able to keep cap hits on three contracts, we just used two. No salary was retained on Montour -- it's impossible to imagine that didn't mean a lower return. Hard to believe Kevyn Adams wouldn't have wanted to open up more trade partners.

The Pegulas are not cheap but they run these zig zag patterns on spending money, None of it making sense. Anyone who thinks the team president wasn't directly involved in a $72 M contract for eight years....there is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

 

[OkimLom]

The Girgensons contract was an overpayment, according to pretty much every commentator in the NHL -- in the context of the last off season.

Don't care what "every commentator" had to say about the contract. To me, it's a contract that represents his "swiss-army knife" capabilities more than anything else.

And to think Pegulas are not directly involved? Watch the UFA signing period on www.sabres.com -- they practically brag about the involvement of Kim and Terry and being in the room. You look at deals like O'Reilly where he had to be traded July 1 or pay $7.5 M and gets moved day before. That's ownership. We were able to keep cap hits on three contracts, we just used two. No salary was retained on Montour -- it's impossible to imagine that didn't mean a lower return. Hard to believe Kevyn Adams wouldn't have wanted to open up more trade partners.

The Pegulas are not cheap but they run these zig zag patterns on spending money, None of it making sense. Anyone who thinks the team president wasn't directly involved in a $72 M contract for eight years....there is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

You mean the media piece that shows just how involved the Pegulas are in their organization after they have been criticized for being absent during down times. I'm sure they are constantly in the room when they are negotiating the contracts with the agent as well .

The ROR situation is different. That was a situation of a player not wanting enjoying playing here, and ownership, not wanting to pay a guy that doesn't want to be here, and wanting him gone. Every year, Sabres would've needed to pay him a bonus. ROR being moved was a PR decision before and above anything else. This has been talked about ad-nauseum to this point, so I won't get into it further.

I'm not saying Pegulas DON'T get involved, but to there's no reason to think that they are involved as much as you are painting them. I would expect them to be involved in certain decisions like giving Skinner that type of contract (though I would expect they are not in the room for actual negotiations). I'd expect the process to go for bigger names, Botterill/Adams gets with agent, they work out the details of the deal, then once the things are in place, Botterill/Adams gets with the Pegulas to talk about the deal, and if they feel comfortable going forward. That is the extent that I would expect the Pegulas to be involved in contracts. A guy like Skinner or Hall would get that, I doubt guys like Girgensons or the smaller guys get the same treatment.

As for the Adams/Montour discussion, I would tend to think that he discussed the availability of Montour with most if not all the GMs in the league. I'm sure some teams weren't interested in the guy at all, some teams had other options/plans they had in mind. Other teams may have told him they were comfortable where they were. Just because we only see one option, and we only heard limited rumors, doesn't mean he didn't exhaust his options.

 

[elchud]

I'd look into what Seattle would be willing to pay if we left Eichel unprotected. Maybe there's a deal there that could fill all the Sabres holes.

I've said this before. I would overpay a bit on Dougie Hamilton (7yrs, 9.5M) and Danault (5yrs, 5.5M). Where does that money come from? Eichel and Okposo.

So you wouldn't actually expose Eichel. Seattle picks Okposo. You trade Eichel for their top3 pick.

But there would be no guarantee that Hamilton/Danault accepts those contracts. So this plan can't work.

Also when say Beniers and Power make the roster there ELCs are over 3million with bonuses so we would still have to eventually move more salaries

 

[Zip15]

With the amount of digital ink that is being spilled on Thompson vs. Bjork vs. Asplund as to who we leave unprotected, they're totally going to trade Jack to LA for a bunch of expansion-exempt pieces and we are going to be left with 40+ pages (by that time) of nothing.

(Note: I do not necessarily think they will trade Eichel. But Adams strikes me as the type of guy who if he believes/knows Eichel wants out or who will want out if they're not in the playoffs next season, may conclude that now as is as good a time as any to move him (pre-NMC, pre-expansion draft) and start a mini-retool with Sam/Cozens/Mitts as the center spine -- and Turcotte and/or Beniers in the pipe.)

 

[Der Jaeger]

With the amount of digital ink that is being spilled on Thompson vs. Bjork vs. Asplund as to who we leave unprotected, they're totally going to trade Jack to LA for a bunch of expansion-exempt pieces and we are going to be left with 40+ pages (by that time) of nothing.

(Note: I do not necessarily think they will trade Eichel. But Adams strikes me as the type of guy who if he believes/knows Eichel wants out or who will want out if they're not in the playoffs next season, may conclude that now as is as good a time as any to move him (pre-NMC, pre-expansion draft) and start a mini-retool with Sam/Cozens/Mitts as the center spine -- and Turcotte and/or Beniers in the pipe.)

agreed. I do not want Adams to trade Eichel. But, every player the Sabres would want is exempt, and the Kings don’t really have 7 forwards worthy of protection.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Don't care what "every commentator" had to say about the contract. To me, it's a contract that represents his "swiss-army knife" capabilities more than anything else.

WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT HIM, SHOW ME A SIMILAR PLAYER THAT GOT THAT MUCH FOR THAT TERM IN OFF-SEASON.

You mean the media piece that shows just how involved the Pegulas are in their organization after they have been criticized for being absent during down times. I'm sure they are constantly in the room when they are negotiating the contracts with the agent as well

THIS WAS ON SABRES.COM -- THAT'S THE MEDIA WHERE PEGULAS GET TO CONTROL CONTENT. SLIGHT DIFFERENCE THAN BUFFALO NEWS

The ROR situation is different. That was a situation of a player not wanting enjoying playing here, and ownership, not wanting to pay a guy that doesn't want to be here, and wanting him gone. Every year, Sabres would've needed to pay him a bonus. ROR being moved was a PR decision before and above anything else. This has been talked about ad-nauseum to this point, so I won't get into it further.

HE WAS TRADED A DAY BEFORE THE BONUS WAS DUE. ONE DAY. WHAT A COINCIDENCE. YOU THINK THE SAME CONTRACT WITH THE BONUS PAID DOESN'T GET MORE. BE SERIOUS.

I'm not saying Pegulas DON'T get involved, but to there's no reason to think that they are involved as much as you are painting them. I would expect them to be involved in certain decisions like giving Skinner that type of contract (though I would expect they are not in the room for actual negotiations). I'd expect the process to go for bigger names, Botterill/Adams gets with agent, they work out the details of the deal, then once the things are in place, Botterill/Adams gets with the Pegulas to talk about the deal, and if they feel comfortable going forward. That is the extent that I would expect the Pegulas to be involved in contracts. A guy like Skinner or Hall would get that, I doubt guys like Girgensons or the smaller guys get the same treatment.

SKINNER WAS WILDLY OVERPAID, HARD TO BELIEVE PEGULAS WOULD EVEN AUTHORIZE TALKING SUCH A DEAL WITHOUT THEIR APPROVAL

As for the Adams/Montour discussion, I would tend to think that he discussed the availability of Montour with most if not all the GMs in the league. I'm sure some teams weren't interested in the guy at all, some teams had other options/plans they had in mind. Other teams may have told him they were comfortable where they were. Just because we only see one option, and we only heard limited rumors, doesn't mean he didn't exhaust his options.

IT'S REALLY ILLOGICAL TO ARGUE MONTOUR WITH A $1.9 M ISN'T WORTH MORE THAN A $3.8 MILLION CAP HIT. I GUESS THE CAP DOESN'T MATTER

 

[K8fool]

Won't trade him until he proves he's healed.. He may gel w team while that goes on until trade deadline or w some list that they get so he doesn't Taylor hall of shame us..

I am so tired of the Eichel trade bs whine like a self prophecy of a jealous lover worried they will be left.. Stop .

 

[OkimLom]

So, it seems you just feel like venting your frustrations, because you clearly are just yelling past anything I'm saying and just yelling to yell. I'm done.

 

[Der Jaeger]

@dotcommunism or anyone else:

Do you think another round of compliance buyouts are coming? With the flat cap, I thought it might be a possibility. But the TV contracts might make that moot now.

Thoughts?

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

@dotcommunism or anyone else:

Do you think another round of compliance buyouts are coming? With the flat cap, I thought it might be a possibility. But the TV contracts might make that moot now.

Thoughts?

I certainly don’t think they would before the expansion draft. Anchor contracts around the league give Seattle leverage to take a bad deal and load up on other pieces as an incentive. Offering free buyouts would really screw them over

 

[sabremike]

If we protect Bjork over Tage or Asplund at this time next year we will be the team getting laughed at by everyone for botching the whole thing worse than anyone.

 

[Jim Bob]

@dotcommunism or anyone else:

Do you think another round of compliance buyouts are coming? With the flat cap, I thought it might be a possibility. But the TV contracts might make that moot now.

Thoughts?

GMs wanted them and the owners didn't.

I doubt that changes any time soon.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I certainly don’t think they would before the expansion draft. Anchor contracts around the league give Seattle leverage to take a bad deal and load up on other pieces as an incentive. Offering free buyouts would really screw them over

I’m thinking after, next year or two.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

@dotcommunism or anyone else:

Do you think another round of compliance buyouts are coming? With the flat cap, I thought it might be a possibility. But the TV contracts might make that moot now.

Thoughts?

Have to buy out Bettman first

 

[rt]

Still like my Risto for Kuemper trade. 2 birds, 1 stone.

I actually think that solves the same problems in the opposite way for AZ. The only D AZ has under contract next season are OEL, Chychrun and Lyubushkin. Meanwhile they can only protect one goalie and don’t want to lose Adin Hill. I think Kuemper for Ristolainen is a very good fit for AZ also.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I assume people are done talking about protecting Bjork over Asplund and Thompson? At least, I hope.

 

[Team Cozens]

I actually think that solves the same problems in the opposite way for AZ. The only D AZ has under contract next season are OEL, Chychrun and Lyubushkin. Meanwhile they can only protect one goalie and don’t want to lose Adin Hill. I think Kuemper for Ristolainen is a very good fit for AZ also.

Almost a perfect match contract wise and both heading into UFA. Sabres are desperate for goaltending help and can protect Kuemper. I keep calling Adams with my idea but he's not returning my calls. LOL