Recalled/Assigned: Ryan Sproul and Xavier Ouellet have been reassigned to Grand Rapids

[Crymson]

A guy with Almqvist's size and question marks doesn't need to get looked at in the playoffs, especially vs the top team in the league. Unless he gets moved, he'll get looked at off and on next season as a spare parts d-man, and if he proves himself in the time he gets to play he might avoid the Tatar treatment.

15 pounds of muscle ought to get him onto the roster. The Wings really could benefit from his presence, as he'd bring QB PP ability currently lacking outside of Kronwall. Smith and Kindl aren't capable of that. Smith will do well on the PP when he is finally given a chance, but he's more the equivalent of a shooting guard than a point guard, so to speak.

 

[Mantha Poodoo]

15 pounds of muscle ought to get him onto the roster. The Wings really could benefit from his presence, as he'd bring a QB PP presence that the team currently has only from Kronwall.

I agree. I'm thinking more about how Babcock is likely to treat him, unless he absolutely grabs the bull by the horns. Kronwall, Smith, AA, and a forward on the 2 PP units would look pretty good. Actually, even Dekeyeser. With his size/speed/defensive play and (believe it or not) decent PP numbers thus far, he'd make a good partner for AA on the 2nd PP unit.

..Can you really blame Babs for being wary about small d-men after Lebda and Meech?

 

[Run the Jewels]

15 pounds of muscle ought to get him onto the roster. The Wings really could benefit from his presence, as he'd bring QB PP ability currently lacking outside of Kronwall. Smith and Kindl aren't capable of that. Smith will do well on the PP when he is finally given a chance, but he's more the equivalent of a shooting guard than a point guard, so to speak.

1st PP:

Kronwall Smith

2nd PP:

DeKeyser Sproul

That needs to happen ASAP...at least until Marchenko gets healthy. Then...


Kronwall Marchenko

Smith Sproul

That's the future, sure hope Ken Holland can deal with that.

 

[Crymson]

1st PP:

Kronwall Smith

2nd PP:

DeKeyser Sproul

That needs to happen ASAP...at least until Marchenko gets healthy. Then...


Kronwall Marchenko

Smith Sproul

That's the future, sure hope Ken Holland can deal with that.

You won't get that next season, barring quite a few injuries. Ideal for me would be:

Kronwall - Alfredsson

Almquist - Smith.

The situation right now is that Sproul is simply not ready to play defensive hockey in the NHL. He did fine playing sheltered minutes against a team missing most of its scorers, but he'd probably have significantly more issues playing decent minutes against an average team. He won't be rushed into the NHL, and rightly so.

 

[Run the Jewels]

You won't get that next season, barring quite a few injuries. Ideal for me would be:

Kronwall - Alfredsson

Almquist - Smith.

The situation right now is that Sproul is simply not ready to play defensive hockey in the NHL. He did fine playing sheltered minutes against a team missing most of its scorers, but he'd probably have significantly more issues playing decent minutes against an average team. He won't be rushed into the NHL, and rightly so.

Oh but Kindl and Almqvist are!

 

[Crymson]

Oh but Kindl and Almqvist are!

Lest you forget, Kindl played quite well in the 2013 playoffs.

Almquist? No clue. But he's out of waiver options. He's either in or he's out of the organization. Sproul has time to develop, and there is therefore no reason to rush him into the NHL and risk watching him get destroyed.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Lest you forget, Kindl played quite well in the 2013 playoffs.

Almquist? No clue. But he's out of waiver options. He's either in or he's out of the organization. Sproul has time to develop, and there is therefore no reason to rush him into the NHL and risk watching him get destroyed.

Lest you forget, Sproul was a better PP QB in his first NHL game than Kindl is after 8 years in the system. I was called crazy for suggesting Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco and Sproul belonged in the NHL this year. Funny how that turned out.

 

[SoupNazi]

Lest you forget, Sproul was a better PP QB in his first NHL game than Kindl is after 8 years in the system. I was called crazy for suggesting Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco and Sproul belonged in the NHL this year. Funny how that turned out.

Sproul doesn't belong in the NHL this year or next unless his defensive game develops a lot.

 

[Crymson]

Lest you forget, Sproul was a better PP QB in his first NHL game than Kindl is after 8 years in the system. I was called crazy for suggesting Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco and Sproul belonged in the NHL this year. Funny how that turned out.

DEFENSE. I'm not talking about offensive ability. Sadly, we cannot put Sproul on the ice exclusively in offensive situations.

As for the rest, congratulations on your predictions that: A) Tatar, who was AHL playoff MVP and had played a productive stretch in the NHL, belonged in the NHL; and B) Nyquist, whom we already all knew was an NHL-caliber player, belonged in the NHL. These were not impressive; I may as well tout my prediction that the sun will rise tomorrow morning. Your claim that Sproul belongs in the NHL has no logical basis on which to declare it accurate, given that he has played all of one game and, aside from the power play, was given sheltered minutes against a team emasculated by injury. In other words, you for all intents and purposes have no data on which to base this claim. I will allow that I did not believe Jurco and Sheahan would do so well as they've done, but I'm willing to bet that you didn't either.

In any event, I fail to see the relevance; the fact that you made one speculative claim that turned out to be true does not establish you as an authority on the readiness of prospects to play in the NHL.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lest you forget, Sproul was a better PP QB in his first NHL game than Kindl is after 8 years in the system. I was called crazy for suggesting Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco and Sproul belonged in the NHL this year. Funny how that turned out.

Again, the same Sheahan you said wasn't better than Andersson all last year and before his callup this year? Interesting to hear what a revisionist history you have on Riley.

I am curious if Marchenko was healthy if he would have taken one of the third pairing guys spots, they might have actually let him do it. Sproul shouldn't really be put out there this year barring massive injuries in the post-season. Will be interesting to see how he looks in camp next year though. His defense is getting better, it is just he really did have a long ways to go there and needs a little more time. Actually a little surprised at the wall he hit in terms of offense as well in the second half.

All in all though it has been a very good year for Sproul, even if he isn't truly ready for prime time yet. Ouellet is should we have an injury though. Marchenko was probably most ready especially in terms of needs, so that was a tough loss.

 

[PullHard]

Harnessed in the Slums acts as if we don't all cheer for all of our prospects to be NHL players, too.

Not hard to be "right" about prospects when you are so vocal about 90% of them.

Also, the Andersson thing is beyond true, and his window as an NHLer gets smaller everyday.

 

[Run the Jewels]

DEFENSE. I'm not talking about offensive ability. Sadly, we cannot put Sproul on the ice exclusively in offensive situations.

As for the rest, congratulations on your predictions that: A) Tatar, who was AHL playoff MVP and had played a productive stretch in the NHL, belonged in the NHL; and B) Nyquist, whom we already all knew was an NHL-caliber player, belonged in the NHL. These were not impressive; I may as well tout my prediction that the sun will rise tomorrow morning. Your claim that Sproul belongs in the NHL has no logical basis on which to declare it accurate, given that he has played all of one game and, aside from the power play, was given sheltered minutes against a team emasculated by injury. In other words, you for all intents and purposes have no data on which to base this claim. I will allow that I did not believe Jurco and Sheahan would do so well as they've done, but I'm willing to bet that you didn't either.

In any event, I fail to see the relevance; the fact that you made one speculative claim that turned out to be true does not establish you as an authority on the readiness of prospects to play in the NHL.

FACTS:

1. Kindl gets the softest of soft competition as a 3rd pairing d-man due to his - ahem - supposed offensive prowess. Sproul is a much better offensive d-man given he is:

• CHL d-man of the year
• A member of the AHL All Rookie team

So why not see if Sproul's actual contributions on offense combine to meet or exceed Kindl's uber soft contributions on "defense"?

2. Almqvist was passed over by both Mike Babcock and Ken Holland in order to give Sproul the final game of the NHL season and extended practice time leading up to the NHL playoffs.

This suggests Sproul's defensive limitations are less concerning to the brain trust than they are to you Crymson.

So who knows more? Mike Babcock and Ken Holland or Crymson? I look forward to your reply.

 

[SoupNazi]

2. Almqvist was passed over by both Mike Babcock and Ken Holland in order to give Sproul the final game of the NHL season and extended practice time leading up to the NHL playoffs.

Almquist already had a callup this season. You can't pretend that hasn't happened.

 

[Crymson]

FACTS:

I'll start by noting that you have a great deal of difficulty distinguishing the absolute from the relative, as you mistake the latter for the former; and that you seem foreign to the concept of the connection between data and conclusion.

1. Kindl gets the softest of soft competition as a 3rd pairing d-man due to his - ahem - supposed offensive prowess. Sproul is a much better offensive d-man given he is:

• CHL d-man of the year
• A member of the AHL All Rookie team

So why not see if Sproul's actual contributions on offense combine to meet or exceed Kindl's uber soft contributions on "defense"?

You have all of one NHL game to judge Sproul's contributions by. Your references to Sproul's accomplishments at the junior and minor-league level are not relevant to his capacities at the NHL level; while they are encouraging, there are plenty of junior/AHL stars who could not cut it at the NHL level. The ultimate measure of how well a player will do in the NHL is that player's performance in the NHL, and that's really all that matters in the end.

In sum, you have nowhere near the amount of data necessary to judge Sproul's value against that of Kindl. And the fact that Kindl is mediocre on defense does not automatically establish Sproul as better; while Kindl is often mediocre in the defensive zone, rest assured that it is very possible to be even worse. And given that Sproul's defensive play has been criticized at the AHL level, it's a very fair bet that he'd struggle even more against NHL competition.

So: relative, not absolute. Insufficient data. Etc.

2. Almqvist was passed over by both Mike Babcock and Ken Holland in order to give Sproul the final game of the NHL season and extended practice time leading up to the NHL playoffs.

This suggests Sproul's defensive limitations are less concerning to the brain trust than they are to you Crymson.

The fact that they "skipped over" Almquist to give Sproul the final game is thoroughly irrelevant, for two reasons: one, this game had no actual bearing on the playoffs, and Sproul and Ouellet played because DeKeyser and Kronwall were being rested; and two, Almquist was called up for two games earlier in the season. The fact that Sproul was chosen over Almquist to practice with the team suggests that they believe Sproul is more NHL-ready than Almquist is; the organization (Babcock included) has made clear its opinion that Almquist needs to put on strength before he will be ready for NHL play, and Babcock would understandably be very reluctant to play Almquist against such a large and physical team as the Bruins. However, the fact that management and coaching believe that Sproul is more NHL-ready than Almquist does not mean that they believe Sproul is NHL-ready. This is a comparison between two prospects, both of whose shortcomings are apparent and have been noted by the organization. Again: relative vs. absolute.

So who knows more? Mike Babcock and Ken Holland or Crymson? I look forward to your reply.

Your smugness is amusing. Learn to reason properly.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'll start by noting that you have a great deal of difficulty distinguishing the absolute from the relative, as you mistake the latter for the former; and that you seem foreign to the concept of the connection between data and conclusion.



You have all of one NHL game to judge Sproul's contributions by. Your references to Sproul's accomplishments at the junior and minor-league level are not relevant to his capacities at the NHL level; while they are encouraging, there are plenty of junior/AHL stars who could not cut it at the NHL level. The ultimate measure of how well a player will do in the NHL is that player's performance in the NHL, and that's really all that matters in the end.

In sum, you have nowhere near the amount of data necessary to judge Sproul's value against that of Kindl. And the fact that Kindl is mediocre on defense does not automatically establish Sproul as better; while Kindl is often mediocre in the defensive zone, rest assured that it is very possible to be even worse. And given that Sproul's defensive play has been criticized at the AHL level, it's a very fair bet that he'd struggle even more against NHL competition.

So: relative, not absolute. Insufficient data. Etc.



The fact that they "skipped over" Almquist to give Sproul the final game is thoroughly irrelevant, for two reasons: one, this game had no actual bearing on the playoffs, and Sproul and Ouellet played because DeKeyser and Kronwall were being rested; and two, Almquist was called up for two games earlier in the season. The fact that Sproul was chosen over Almquist to practice with the team suggests that they believe Sproul is more NHL-ready than Almquist is; the organization (Babcock included) has made clear its opinion that Almquist needs to put on strength before he will be ready for NHL play, and Babcock would understandably be very reluctant to play Almquist against such a large and physical team as the Bruins. However, the fact that management and coaching believe that Sproul is more NHL-ready than Almquist does not mean that they believe Sproul is NHL-ready. This is a comparison between two prospects, both of whose shortcomings are apparent and have been noted by the organization. Again: relative vs. absolute.



Your smugness is amusing. Learn to reason properly.

Au contraire, I have over 200 games of data on Kindl, I was completely right about Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco and Sproul is finally getting his shot as we get ready for the playoffs.

Where's Almqvist?

 

[SirloinUB]

Au contraire, I have over 200 games of data on Kindl, I was completely right about Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco and Sproul is finally getting his shot as we get ready for the playoffs.

Where's Almqvist?

Let me help you understand...

You have all of one NHL game to judge Sproul's contributions by. Your references to Sproul's accomplishments at the junior and minor-league level are not relevant to his capacities at the NHL level; while they are encouraging, there are plenty of junior/AHL stars who could not cut it at the NHL level. The ultimate measure of how well a player will do in the NHL is that player's performance in the NHL, and that's really all that matters in the end.

In sum, you have nowhere near the amount of data necessary to judge Sproul's value against that of Kindl. And the fact that Kindl is mediocre on defense does not automatically establish Sproul as better; while Kindl is often mediocre in the defensive zone, rest assured that it is very possible to be even worse. And given that Sproul's defensive play has been criticized at the AHL level, it's a very fair bet that he'd struggle even more against NHL competition.

You absolutely, do not, have enough data to evaluate Sproul in relation to any NHL defensemen. The fact that you suggested otherwise is ridiculous. He has played 18 mins of NHL hockey against a blues team that was missing 6 or 7 of their top 9 fwds. The only meaningful test he faced (which he poorly handled) was a direct result of his own ability to complete a line change (this is an ongoing issue for Sproul).

There is no way you play Sproul in playoffs if we are healthy. He is a complete unknown, has subpar defense in the AHL, and flat out doesn't know how to complete a line change.

I love Sproul as a prospect (I have him as a prospect in my keeper league). But I am not prepared to play him in the NHL playoffs.

 

[SoupNazi]

Au contraire, I have over 200 games of data on Kindl, I was completely right about Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco and Sproul is finally getting his shot as we get ready for the playoffs.

Where's Almqvist?

Being right about those four (and it wasn't much of a stretch - you weren't the only one right) doesn't mean you'll be right about Sproul. And there's no way he would have benefited from being in Detroit on opening night. In fact, that might have ruined him.

 

[alfie follower]

sigh... another day and a half of this dribble before we can start arguing about an ACTUAL Playoff Game....

 

[Crymson]

Au contraire, I have over 200 games of data on Kindl, I was completely right about Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco and Sproul is finally getting his shot as we get ready for the playoffs.

Where's Almqvist?

I'm beginning to think that you're not actually being serious.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

this thread is to heap praise on sproul and ouellete only, not debate sproul vs almquist

nobody can say for absolute but at the moment it looks pretty clear that sproul will leap frog almquist in our future plans if he hasent already.

big, fast and skilled always trumps little, fast and skilled

 

[jfrank21]

I am one of those guys who isn't amped on Tatar. If he was a surefire top 6 forward he'd probably have made the team or would be a lock this season. He's got decent offensive skills but he doesn't have any one skill that really stands out. So I think bottom 6 forward is a very safe projection. Val Filppula had one season in Grand Rapids and put up 71 points. Tatar has two seasons as a Griffin and has scored 57 and 58 points. It took Filppula a bit to firmly establish himself as a top 6 forward but he's clearly our best forward behind Pavs and possibly, maybe Hank.

I simply haven't seen enough from Tomas Tatar to be convinced he's a solid top 6 NHL forward.

I think it would do some here good to remember that their player evaluations aren't always spot on....Almquist has improved year over year has been very impressive in his time in the AHL and even looked decent in his 2 games up. I think it's too early to write him off. Let him put on some more weight in the summer and see where he is come training camp.

 

[Konnan511]

The fact that they "skipped over" Almquist to give Sproul the final game is thoroughly irrelevant, for two reasons: one, this game had no actual bearing on the playoffs, and Sproul and Ouellet played because DeKeyser and Kronwall were being rested; and two, Almquist was called up for two games earlier in the season.

This is a fact.

The fact that Sproul was chosen over Almquist to practice with the team suggests that they believe Sproul is more NHL-ready than Almquist is; [other opinions] Again: relative vs. absolute.

The first part of your statement was true, there is no arguing any of that. But the second part is completely contradictory of the first part.

You and I clearly won't see eye to eye on this matter. You're finding hidden agendas and meaning in the call-up and subsequent non demotion. I don't think any special message has been sent other than, like you said, the game was meaningless and A2 already had his call-up and the practicing is more of a "well since you are already here" type of thing.

But in any regards, we both agree Sproul will be the better player in the future, we are just disagreeing on the present time. Enjoy the weekend and Let's Go Wings!!!

 

[Konnan511]

this thread is to heap praise on sproul and ouellete only, not debate sproul vs almquist

nobody can say for absolute but at the moment it looks pretty clear that sproul will leap frog almquist in our future plans if he hasent already.

big, fast and skilled always trumps little, fast and skilled

Agreed, but you have to explain what falls into the skill part. If you are throwing defense in the skill portion and they are both defensmen, A2 clearly has Spoul beat by a large margin. I'd take small, fast, skilled and much better defender than Big, Fast, Skilled, defensively irresponsible for a defensmen.

Luckily, we all know Sproul will probably gain defensively abilities, it's just not going to be at an acceptable level until probably the end of net season. Xo could play right now, and I'd welcome that over the likes of Kindl and Lashoff.

 

[Frk It]

Agreed, but you have to explain what falls into the skill part. If you are throwing defense in the skill portion and they are both defensmen, A2 clearly has Spoul beat by a large margin. I'd take small, fast, skilled and much better defender than Big, Fast, Skilled, defensively irresponsible for a defensmen.

Luckily, we all know Sproul will probably gain defensively abilities, it's just not going to be at an acceptable level until probably the end of net season. Xo could play right now, and I'd welcome that over the likes of Kindl and Lashoff.

Who's this small, fast defenseman you speak of? Cuz that ain't Almquist.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think it would do some here good to remember that their player evaluations aren't always spot on....Almquist has improved year over year has been very impressive in his time in the AHL and even looked decent in his 2 games up. I think it's too early to write him off. Let him put on some more weight in the summer and see where he is come training camp.

Thanks for pulling that quote on Tatar up. Right now he looks like a solid middle forward capable of potting 20+ goals a season. I became a fan once I saw him play in Detroit. He's been a pleasant surprise. With regards to Almqvist of course he'll be 7th d-man at a bare minimum. They'll Derek Meech him and he'll get his shot. I like what I've seen from Almqvist in Detroit there's just a bunch of high end talent on D pushing their way into the NHL lineup. That's bad news for Kindl and Almqvist.