OK, it sure aren't in Sweden and Finland.
When Sweden play Canada its always the same story, the commentators starts with "Now all kids, look at how effective Canada is, how hard they drive to the net" ect.
Ryan Smyth video :-)
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OK, it sure aren't in Sweden and Finland.
When Sweden play Canada its always the same story, the commentators starts with "Now all kids, look at how effective Canada is, how hard they drive to the net" ect.
Yeah, and Ruutus hit on Jagr. But its also a numbers thing.
I don't know if you saw the game between NYR and Philly last night. Philly tryed to target Jagr all night. Fedoruk landed a huge hit on Jagr when he didn't even have the puck. Derian Hatcher left Prucha (who scored a goal on the play) all alone infront of the net just to hit Jagr. On the night they had atleast 5-6 attempts that defenitly can be described as attempts to injure. At the end Ryan Hollweg jumped Pitkänen, giving him the same threatment Philly had been giving the stars of the NYR all night.
What team would you describe as "dirty" in that game?
Especially if you go back a few years, Canada played like Philly did in that game all the time. Knee to knee hits, crosschecks to the face, slashes to the face, hits from behind, they dived allot, and stuff like that. So in all honesty and with all due respect, I find it pretty childish by all the 100's of Canada fans who comes here and takes offense when someone points out a dirty play or dive by Canadian players. Its defenitly a result from extreme homers like McGuire always defending Canada on TSN, though youd wish people could think by themselfs.
If a Swede complains about Canadian beein dirty or just physical, call him/her a chicken sweden and explain how hockey is a physical game, instead of bringing up one dirty hit made by a swede the last 30 years in international hockey.
I can't recall Canada being any more dirty at the world's then any other team that plays in that thing for the last 20 or so years.I've seen lot's of teams (including so true and honourable Tre Kroner) pull on the edge moves.It's this still continuing "Canada is dirty" attitude(which is still a holdover from the 70's and nothing else) while disregarding all other teams questionable physical tactics that proves to Canadian fans that there is hardly a European hockey fan that can be counted on to be un-biased when it comes to this matter.Canadian teams for years now have been extremely disiplined overall in international hockey,as much as any other team and more then some countries of whom i won't name names.
And do you honestly believe this is the only incident of borderline play Swedish teams have engaged in over the last 30 years? They have'nt even poked a stick in someones face in a scrum or given a high elbow to an opponent?..................lol.
Yeah,we must must be watching different tournaments the past 30 years.
it's almost as if YOU are the one who think the swedes are "chicken" Because i've seen PLENTY over the years that tells me they are no such thing. They play the game as rough and use as much borderline **** as anyone else out there.
Don't even get me going on diving, European teams perfected the art.
And if a Swede fan is going to bring in that old 70's mentality of Canada being dirty due to ryan snyth's love taps,for God's sake don't think Canadian fans have no right to 'remind" you guys of some of yours.
Lol,please
Over and out!!
mattihp
Registered User
By canadian standards the swedish national team plays chicken. They don't get as dirty in physical play as others, but are masters of dirty stick play.
I just saw this game again the other day. That was in the last min or two of the game. Fischer did nothing, Ryan Smyth was just having a meltdown because they got shut out in the gold medal game. Canada played awful the whole game and that was it's manifestation. A little microcosm of Canadian hockey.
You guys learn well then.This is the type of stuff you see from frustrated Russian teams for years now and it stands to reason since they've had such a hard time winning anything.Look at this years past world juniors,when Canada went up 4-0 the Russian players started getting undisiplined and started running guys and using their sticks and hacking after the whistle. They did'nt start to get their heads together and start playing hockey until they scored a goal.Up to that point after the 4-0 score................they started to lose their head and goon it up.
Look at piestany for example.That's the biggest shame and incident of goonery in internatioanl hockey ever and it was instigated and orchestrated by the Russians.They could'nt take getting their tails handed to them fair and square and lost their minds plain and simple,both their players and coaches.This is a microcosm of Russian hockey no question.
probably the most undisiplined team i see in international hockey these days is the Russian entry,and it costs them some games quite a lot now. Every team get's frustrated when they're losing. Russia loses a lot too,that's why i've noticed i see it probably more from them then the others.
There's a lot of frustration form top to bottom in the Russian hockey organization and their behaviour on the ice shows it.They are definately the new goons of international hockey IMO relatively speaking standing next to the other big 7. it may cool off when they start winning consistently again but considering their issues and lack of all around talent from goaltender on out i can't see them winning consistently for a long time yet.
Russian hockey is quite dirty and has been for years now,much more so then the others.
You guys are in rough shape,both in terms of organization,talent amd disipline. You've never been worse all across the board.
that's a microcosm of Russian hockey today.
There's not a lot to respect anymore all in all. Not like there used to be that's for sure.
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Cyclops, honestly, scouts honor or whatever, for how long have you watched the WCH?
Only 10-15 years ago, Canada could completly loose it in the WCH. The WCH didn't matter as much then as it does now for them, and if things didn't went their way they would go out and "have some fun".
Its a allot better these days, but there is no doubt that Canada still will rough it up at times if they can gain something with it. They knows how to do that, and IMO its part of the game to be able to do it. I wouldn't mind at all if the Swedes did it, but we don't have the same natrual toughness as you guys does.
But, with all due respect, I think this whole debate is ridiculos. In terms of toughness, Canada in the WCH's are like the Flyers in the NHL in the 70's. Did other teams play dirty in the 70's too? Sure, but the Flyers were by far the worst. Can Czech player play dirty now, absolutely, but you can bet on that Canada will rough it up more.
Rob
Registered User
When was the last time Canada lead the tournment in penalty minutes? They didn't last year nor the year before that. This is very strange considering Canada is supposed to be so dirty.
Cyclops, honestly, scouts honor or whatever, for how long have you watched the WCH?
Only 10-15 years ago, Canada could completly loose it in the WCH. The WCH didn't matter as much then as it does now for them, and if things didn't went their way they would go out and "have some fun".
Its a allot better these days, but there is no doubt that Canada still will rough it up at times if they can gain something with it. They knows how to do that, and IMO its part of the game to be able to do it. I wouldn't mind at all if the Swedes did it, but we don't have the same natrual toughness as you guys does.
But, with all due respect, I think this whole debate is ridiculos. In terms of toughness, Canada in the WCH's are like the Flyers in the NHL in the 70's. Did other teams play dirty in the 70's too? Sure, but the Flyers were by far the worst. Can Czech player play dirty now, absolutely, but you can bet on that Canada will rough it up more.
Everyone roughs it up if they think they can get an advantage out of it,we're hardly unique in that regard anymore.personally i think we need to rough it up more these days.
Rob
Registered User
Just for the record, during the 2005 IIHF Championships Russia led the tournament in penalties. Last year it was Finland. Canada was ranked 7th in penalty minutes.
To say that Canada is the dirtiest hockey team is not supported by facts.
To say that Canada is the dirtiest hockey team is not supported by facts.
Paxton Fettel
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2006
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mattihp
Registered User
Just for the record, during the 2005 IIHF Championships Russia led the tournament in penalties. Last year it was Finland. Canada was ranked 7th in penalty minutes.
To say that Canada is the dirtiest hockey team is not supported by facts.
Some dirty tricks get just the same 2 minute penalty as a clean bodycheck in the wrong place in the world champs though...
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
This is ridiculous.
We've been sending teams full of young stars over the past decade or so and the kind of thing in this video is virtually non-existent.
Meanwhile, Crosby is deliberately high-sticked in the face by a Swede.
Simon Gagne is cross-checked in the back AFTER play is over and WHILE celebrating a goal by a Slovakian and Murray gets speared at the end of the same game.
Where are those videos?
I agree with other posters who have observed that Canadian fans, by and large, let some of the rough incidents go after time, while the European fans simply can't apparently.
Every year is an opportunity for Czech fans to bring up Bertuzzi and Smyth, and for Swedish fans to bring up Rob Niedermeyer. Let it go people.
There isn't as much fuss about dirty, chippy play by European teams because Canadians generally let it go.
Not because it doesn't happen.
We've been sending teams full of young stars over the past decade or so and the kind of thing in this video is virtually non-existent.
Meanwhile, Crosby is deliberately high-sticked in the face by a Swede.
Simon Gagne is cross-checked in the back AFTER play is over and WHILE celebrating a goal by a Slovakian and Murray gets speared at the end of the same game.
Where are those videos?
I agree with other posters who have observed that Canadian fans, by and large, let some of the rough incidents go after time, while the European fans simply can't apparently.
Every year is an opportunity for Czech fans to bring up Bertuzzi and Smyth, and for Swedish fans to bring up Rob Niedermeyer. Let it go people.
There isn't as much fuss about dirty, chippy play by European teams because Canadians generally let it go.
Not because it doesn't happen.
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Well said.
We're just better hockey fans,always have been and always will be.
the mentality of so many of them concerning this stuff always astounds me.
so teeny-bopperish.
I mean,this Smyth thing is still an issue to some of them? You've gotta be kidding me
We're just better hockey fans,always have been and always will be.
the mentality of so many of them concerning this stuff always astounds me.
so teeny-bopperish.
I mean,this Smyth thing is still an issue to some of them? You've gotta be kidding me
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No, it's just the epitome of behavior of many Canadian "stars" in the WCH
tournaments. I hate generalizations, but honestly, I watch this competition every
year and it's always been the same story: once Canada is down in an important
game, their players start making cheap shots. It's a part of their game.
A lot of Czech hockey pundits are persuaded that's because Canadian players
believe they are superior to other hockey nations, so that when they are playing in Europe at these meaningless, inferior tournaments, they are allowed to do anything they want. I personally think it's a bit too harsh, most Czech hockey fans actually
agree though. It's a common believing in the Czech Republic that even Canada playerswho play fair in the NHL, behave much more aggressively when starting in Europe. (see Scott "Lady Byng" Niedermayer and his attack on Jágr in Prague 2004).
Czech NHL-ers confirm this. Ask Václav Prospal, Martin Ručinský, Jaroslav Špaček,
Jiřà Šlégr and others.
I don't want to turn this thread into some kind of a nationalistic flame war. It's
simply a problem of different cultural traditions. Not just in hockey, North Americans are usually more direct, more open, more assertive (and frankly, more tolerant too) than people from Central Europe. Czech children are brought up to be much more disciplined than their Canadian peers.
Canadians and Americans claim Euros are mostly soft, perimeter players who show
no heart. Slovaks, Russians and Czechs believe NA players are cheap shot artists
and lumberjacks who play a dumb, primitive hockey. What looks like a dedicated,
hard-working style of play on one side of the Ocean, it may look like a stupid,
backward style on the other side. And the other way round. Rangers fans criticize their European players for their East-West style, power plays with no shots etc, but
in Europe, this hockey is considered to be much more intelligent than Canadian "dump-n-chase". It's all about different traditions and different values.
Every hockey nation has its own bad habits; Canadians make cheapshots, Russians
are known for their invisible slashing, Czechs and Slovaks dive. Swedes and especially Finns are more similar to Canadians (must be the Protestant tradition).
So yes, I'm convinced Canadians usually play dirtier than Europeans, at the same
time I'm pretty sure there are some aspects of European hockey that the North Americans may find unbearable. Let's just get over it and try to be a bit more tolerant, both sides.
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Thats one heck of a general comment on a whole continent of fans.:
As opposed to the prevalent generalization comments about "those typical kinds of Canadian players" and like the post above that says "it's common knowledge that when Candian teams get down they engage in cheap shots" ?
you mean generalizations like that?
how come you don't rush in and frown upon and shake your head about those generalizations Peterbondra?
Why so easy-going with that stuff? it's right here one post above yours on this page.
I mean please...."the epitome of many Canadian stars at this event",lol what tournament are people from over there watching these days?
And yes,i do believe a good percentage (that's different from all) of European fans are very immature and tenny boppersih when it comes to this issue,i stand by that.I'm not the only one who believes that either.
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No, it's just the epitomy of behavior of many Canadian "stars" in the WCH
tournaments. I hate generalizations, but honestly, I watch this competition every
year and it's always been the same story: once Canada is down in an important
game, their players start making cheap shots. It's a part of their game.
A lot of Czech hockey pundits are persuaded that's because Canadian players
believe they are superior to other hockey nations, so that when they are playing in Europe at these meaningless, inferior tournaments, they are allowed to do anything they want. I personally think it's a bit too harsh, most Czech hockey fans actually
agree though. It's a common believing in the Czech Republic that even Canada playerswho play fair in the NHL, behave much more aggressively when starting in Europe. (see Scott "Lady Byng" Niedermayer and his attack on Jágr in Prague 2004).
Czech NHL-ers confirm this. Ask Václav Prospal, Martin Ručinský, Jaroslav Špaček,
Jiřà Šlégr and others.
I don't want to turn this thread into some kind of a nationalistic flame war. It's
simply a problem of different cultural traditions. Not just in hockey, North Americaners are usually more direct, more open, more assertive (and frankly, more tolerant too) than people from Central Europe. Czech children are brought up to be much more disciplined than their Canadian peers.
Canadians and Americans claim Euros are mostly soft, perimeter players who show
no heart. Slovaks, Russians and Czechs believe NA players are cheap shot artists
and lumberjacks who play a dumb, primitive hockey. What looks like a dedicated,
hard-working style of play on one side of the Ocean, it may look like a stupid,
backward style on the other side. And the other way round. Rangers fans criticize their European players for their East-West style, power plays with no shots etc, but
in Europe, this hockey is considered to be much more intelligent than Canadian "dump-n-chase". It's all about different traditions and different values.
Every hockey nation has its own bad habits; Canadians make cheapshots, Russians
are known for their invisible slashing, Czechs and Slovaks dive. Swedes and especially Finns are more similar to Canadians (must be the Protestant tradition).
So yes, I'm convinced Canadians usually play dirtier than Europeans, at the same
time I'm pretty sure there are some aspects of European hockey that the NAers
may find unbearable. Let's just get over it and try to be a bit more tolerant, both
sides.
I've watched this tournament every year for eons now (i'd wager longer then you) and i just can't recall Canada doing anything out there for the better part of two decades now that is anything worse then any of the other teams that come to play in it.You're convinced Canadian players are worse because of cultural predjudice ingrained in you from where you were brought up concerning Canadian hockey,hence you see what you want to see and have been brought up to believe what is typical and don't see and disregard what you don't want to see and have been brought up to believe isn't an issue(European dirty physical tactics)
Nyquil brought up a few instances just in the last few years at this event but that stuff isn't brought up on videos here by either fans from europe or Canadian fans (like i said,we're just great fans here and recognize it for what it is and get over it) Why is Canadian physical play brought up year after year? (even this foolish little forgettable crap by Smyth) Because of what you were brought up to believe and can't let go.i will agree it does' seem to be a cultural difference of some sort................Euros just seem to be overly dramatic about this stuff (might come from soccer fan mentality???) I don't know and can't answer that,i just know it's legit.
But I just call it the way i see it on the ice in this matter and the truth is these days we just are'nt anymore dirty in that tournament then anyone else and i don't care what you tell me about it because my eyes don't lie. I would also like to point out that i don't feel the need to pull up any videos of Mikka Hannula and post them here to rant and rave.It's over and we lost the game.................end of story for me.
I actually wish we would start to be a little more dirty again,in my view we've been far too clean the last few years and need to throw a few more elbows and knicks and knacks here and there (but that's me)
Ryan Smyth 3 years ago slapping his stick around fischers ankle? Again..........you must be joking euro fans.
I don't know what else to say,i don't have anything aginst you whatsoever,i just think you're totally miles off on this issue.
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Perhaps you purposely forgot the 1997 worlds.
Of course there are numerous acts of individual thuggery at every tourney, but I don't recall any other top 7 team doing what Canada did in 1997.
Canada started it with a cheap shot and then just lost control. Hlnika can be seen pulling his guys off the ice and pleading with the Canadian bench to stop it.......all the while Andy Murray does nothing. By the end there's like 8 Canadians circling the ice looking for blood Slapshot style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBfHD7cGVDo
Regardless if it manifests itself in international tourneys or not, North Americans generally play a more physical and dirty game of hockey. This is an undeniable fact.
For example, there are only 4 Europeans in the top 30 NHL pim leaders; there are 19 Canadians.
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No, I'm convinced Canadians play in a different way due to their cultural traditions.
Not in a worse way but definitely in a different way. You are right, people in the
Czech Republic are brought up to have certain prejudices. The same Canadians, though. Let's admit it, each culture has its own prejudices (=values) and it's impossible to ged rid of all of them. What we can do, however, is to be more
tolerant to other people's values and to be more critical towards our own values.
To be tolerant doesn't mean to have no bias (it's impossible), it means to be aware of existence of your own bias, its limits and its cultural roots. Simply put, there are
no better or worse traditions, there are just our traditions and foreign traditions. Canadian hockey tradition, compared to the European one, is more focused on physical part of the game and, I believe, it is connected with the Protestant heritage
of Anglo-phone Canada. Protestantism highly evaluates hard work and individual
responsibility for one's own life. Catholic tradition, for instance, is somewhat different, it's a bit less practical and a bit more speculative. And I do believe these
traditions are often mirrored in sports. Anglo-Canadians are tougher and more
agressive, harder working in a way, in comparison with players from Central Europe
and hell, even Quebec. That said, they are also usually less skilled and less creative. (I know I'm speaking about secular countries, but these traditions are
too deep to be left only by stop attending the church; and I know it's more difficult, it's not only religion, at least the Anglo-Saxon tradition plays an important role too.)
I'm rather disappointed you have used my post as an example of a European fan's bias. I've never said "You Canadians are primitive lumberjacks, we in Europe play
much brighter and much more decent hockey". No, I was just saying there are some
typical aspects of Canadian hockey that many people in Canada may consider proper, and at the same time, they can be considered unacceptable and unfair by
people in Europe. And vice versa. There's not only one definition of "fair play" or good hockey in this world.
I love the idiots commenting on the YouTube video that think Canadians are the worst players in the world.
I don't understand the problem.
At the start of the video we have the czech player all wild and he starts to come at the Canadian player looking for blood (he's the first guy to lose his cool) after that the Canadian players just say...'so you want to get all hot and bothered do you?" and they meet his agression with agression.what do you expect and what's dirty or abnormal about that? The video only shows the czech player intitiating the confrontation,do you mean it's dirty to meet agression with agression?.At least from what the video shows it appears the czech player is the aggressor of a violent conmfrontation,does he get a free pass by you and others here? If this type of play bothers you why do you not see what the czech player has done to start the fracas..............is he innocent because of nationality?.Certainly you cannot expect us to turn the other cheek when faced with an obvious show of desire on the part of their player to want to mix it up.
The czech player is clearly the guy who starts it (at least from what the video shows) as he comes at one of our players WITH A STICK!!!.................................don't you see that?
Hlinka may be all worked up because he is angry at the lack of disipline showed by his player in the beginning that has led to this whole ordeal and is embarrassed and wants to get back to the matter at hand............like finishing up winning the game.That's a definite possibility i'd say.
Can you get another video showing me what the Czech player was so wild about?.If not,it looks like your thesis here looks hypocritical at best and clear bias at worse.
See,this is what i'm talking about,this over focus on any and all Canadian roughness,even in the face of transgressions of the same type from european teams,even transgressions that may have started the Canadian players response.
If the czechs don't want to see this type of thing in hockey................why did that player go looking for it? And why blame us for it?
If i was a casual fan and only had this video as evidence my first question would be........'why did the Czech player want to start fighting in the game?"
That's my take on that video zine.
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Well,i'm still not sure if i buy all the explanations you give here but there is some truth to what you say.There most definately are differences in the hockey we both play and some of them do centre on some of the stuff you mentioned. I will admit to having concieved notions about the european game also and it comes from a long way back in all honesty as they do vise versa in europe concerning our hockey.
I'll leave it at that,what you say in this post is rather fair i think.
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