Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Edmonton Oilers

[Grigo25*]

don't let early returns fool you

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

..how come Medicine Hat found it so easy to blank him in 4 staright games (no points at all) and then limit him to just 2A in the final game of their 5 game playoff series --for just 2assists in 5GP --yet here he is tearing up the NHL so easily ? HE had ONLY 31 goals in 69GP last year in the reg season of the supposedly much easier WHL JR. league-yet if you project to 69 NHL games he'd get 32 goals in the allrgdely far more difficult NHL? HOW is this possible? Yes his assists in 69 games last year in the WHL reg season was 75 and he projects to ONLY about 42 NHL assists extrapolated to 69 games -so at least that (still a pretty incredible total for any NHL rookie -and the seasonstill has to go to 82 GP) -but at least the decline in asists compared to his Jr. rate is EXPECTED ...but ceratinly NOT the goals rate-nor how easy it was for 12 Jr, team to basically shut him down...SO how do you explain all this? Everyone said he was fgood but not a "franchise" guy like Gretzky ,crosby,and certainly not a Stamkos as a goal scorere(his forte was supposed to be as a set-up guy)...SO HOW can he be scoring so many goals against "better" NHL-level goalies?

I'm confused-I do not understand-this was not supposed to be so easy to pile up this much finishing let alone points ..yet the facts are the facts...
I guess NHL guys have not been as physical on him as those guys from the HAT were last spring-the question is WHY NOT? They seem to have banged around Taylor Hall a lot more than RNH so far,and I thoght Hall was the better talent .so am i right? HAS the NHL opposition been too "soft" on RNH ? I had thought his weight would be a problem when the big bad NHL pros started banging him around-but so far they have apparently not laid a glove on him.the question is WHY NOT? I don't get it...

they banged around Hall cause Hall puts himself into those position with his recklessness

RNH doesn't play that kind of game

 

[TheNextOneX]

Guy was the champ in assist last season in the WHL.

I guess he capitalize it and translate to NHL nicely.

 

[Nizdizzle]

You also have to realize that he gets to play with many more players up to his skill level in the NHL, he did not have that luxury in junior.

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

kids of his caliber often progress a ton year to year. he was alot better as a 17yo then he was at 16 and is immensely better as an 18yo than he was at 17. Im gonna go out on a limb and say he gets better as a 19yo!!!

 

[Joseppi]

You also have to realize that he gets to play with many more players up to his skill level in the NHL, he did not have that luxury in junior.

I refuse to believe Brett Ferguson isn't as good as Jordan Eberle or Ryan Smyth.

 

[markrander87]

You also have to realize that he gets to play with many more players up to his skill level in the NHL, he did not have that luxury in junior.

THIS

*ends thread*

 

[Qubax]

There is a simple answer.

In Junior his linemates were about the worst first line linemates in junior. Anything they accomplished was all on the back of RNH,

and secondly his team played a late 90's early 2000's Lemaire style trap.

They were trying to win every game 1-0, and his linemates sucked. When you think about it that way 106 points seems pretty good.

Now he's pretty free to roam and he's passing to Eberle, Hall etc., who have way more talent.

That's all it is.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Because of his linemates (Eberle/Hall but even when Hall is injured, Edm has decent forwards)...you can't just go and cover RNH.

I do agree though that the amount of space he has at times is a bit shocking and how some teams are able to contain him while others aren't but it's a matchup game of course and some coaches aren't good at it nor are some dmen good enough to read him (he's a pretty slipper player unlike Hall who's very dynamic and fast but not the same style).

 

[jebs]

Red Deer let in 34 less goals than any other team in the WHL. A very defensive minded team, and he really didn't have much offensive help on his line at all.

2 months ago people felt this didnt matter, he was just a crappy #1 pick. But obviously it does.

I mean look at JT with the Isles.. Poor kid has nothing to play with, or he would be ripping it up.

I will however admit that I am also surprised with his goal scoring pace. Though if you look at his shooting %, its not exactly sustainable.

 

[ponder]

Pretty much what others have said. The guys he was playing with in Red Deer weren't overly talented, none of his teammates last year were first round picks, regardless of draft year (except Dumba, who will be a first round pick, but hasn't been drafted yet), and Petrovic (a dman) is the only guy he played with who's been drafted in the 2nd round. He was BY FAR the most talented player on the team, the opposition knew they had to double team RNH, and knew that they could somewhat get away with it, so RNH set up his teammates with assists while he attracted most of the opposition's attention.

Now in the NHL he's playing with two very talented wingers in Hall and Eberle, teams can only throw 1 defender at him, and he's pretty shifty 1 on 1, plus his linemates are actually setting HIM up for goals now. He's definitely a pass first player, but he's got a nice shot as well, being from Burnaby isn't the only reason he drew Sakic comparisons (no, he doesn't have a Sakic-esque shot, but a nice one regardless). I also think he's grown/improved as a player, and is simply better and more focused than he was in the dub.

 

[McDNicks17]

Perfect example of why scouting players based on points is completely pointless.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Dont evaluate players from the computer.

Med hat went to extremes to keep rnh off the board. They did and red deer crumbled

 

[Wheatking]

I wouldn't put too much thought into his junior stats. He dominated the league and it sounds like he was able to put up points in anyway he felt. A lot of people criticized him for going over a month without a goal but he still had 21 assists in those 15 games.

After getting cut from Team Canada he said he decided to "get more selfish" and shoot the puck more. He had 17 goals in the final 20 games of the season. Plus 4 goals in a 4 game sweep in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

You also have to realize that he gets to play with many more players up to his skill level in the NHL, he did not have that luxury in junior.

Exactly

When you move from one level to another (NHL is quite a few levels above WHL) there are two things that happen

#1 You go against better players

#2 You play with better players

RNH's game utilizes everyone around him and the #2 makes up by more than enough the difficulty of #1

 

[Eamonn*]

Better supporting cast in the NHL along with him being extremely talented.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I wouldn't put too much thought into his junior stats. He dominated the league and it sounds like he was able to put up points in anyway he felt. A lot of people criticized him for going over a month without a goal but he still had 21 assists in those 15 games.

After getting cut from Team Canada he said he decided to "get more selfish" and shoot the puck more. He had 17 goals in the final 20 games of the season. Plus 4 goals in a 4 game sweep in the first round of the playoffs.

Coming out of that goalless month, I went out of my way to watch him several times.... Came out of it saying he'll score more goals than anyone really thinks.

Will have the puck too much, world class release.

 

[HanSolo]

THIS

*ends thread*

Why does that END the thread? He had poorer linemates, but he also had poorer defenses to go up against. He should've easily dominated, bored/unchallenged or not.

 

[massivegoonery]

"better" "franchise" "soft" (no (still ,crosby,and --for --yet -and -but -so ...but ..how ..yet .so 12 2A 2assists 31 32 4 42 5 5GP 69 69 69 69GP 75 82 ? ? a a a a a a a a about against all all) allrgdely alone am and and any apparently are around around-but as as as as asists assists assists at at at bad banged banging basically be be be be been been better big blank but can ceratinly certainly come compared confused-I decline difficult do do don't down...SO easier easily easy easy easy Everyone EXPECTED explain extrapolated facts facts... far far far,and fgood final finishing for for forte found from game game games games games games get get glove go goal goalies? goals goals goals goals GP) Gretzky guess guy guy)...SO guys guys had had Hall Hall has HAS Hat HAT have have have he HE he he he he'd here him him him him him him.the his his his HOW how HOW how I I i I I I'm if in in in in in in in in in incredible is is is is is it it it... Jr, JR. Jr. just just laid last last last league-yet least least let like limit lot many Medicine more more much much NHL NHL NHL NHL NHL NHL NHL NHL-level NHL? not not NOT not not not not NOT? NOT? of of on on on ONLY ONLY opposition physical pile playoff points points possible? pretty problem project projects pros question question rate rate-nor reg reg right? RNH RNH rookie said scorere(his scoring season season seasonstill seem series set-up shut so so so so so so spring-the Stamkos staright started supposed supposed supposedly talent Taylor team tearing than that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their then They they this this this? thoght those thought to to to to to to to to to to to to to too total understand-this up up was was was was was was weight were when WHL WHL WHY WHY would year year Yes you you

You kept harping on this when it happened and everyone told you that it didn't mean anything. Now, it turns out it doesn't mean anything and you're asking why?

 

[Spawn]

You also have to realize that he gets to play with many more players up to his skill level in the NHL, he did not have that luxury in junior.

I remember an interview with Jordan Eberle saying something like that the NHL game was almost easier than junior because the average player is thinking the game at his speed. All of a sudden his teammates can keep up with what he's trying to do on the ice. The same is likely the same with RNH.

I don't think Eberle is getting enough credit though to be honest. He's only 1 point back of RNH. Nine of RNH's 13 goals have been assisted on by Eberle. Although then again I think RNH has assists on like 7 of Eberle's goal... they are a pretty dynamic duo lately. Hall has a shocking amount of assists for both of them considering he hasn't played on a line with them for a good amount of games.

 

[Johnstarks]

I agree having better players, a greater supporting cast makes the situation a lot better for RNH. But this can impact on many levels.

For one of course, if your a playmaker like RNH, having snipers ala Hall and Eberle are going to help you getting on the scoresheet.

On another level, Medecine Hat's game plan was quite simple: counter RNH. Therefore, having 2 or 3 players on him at all time will make that game plan very successful quickly. NHL teams cannot have multiple players checking him, your leaving a Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle wide open who will bury the puck very quickly.

 

[rick3652]

..how come Medicine Hat found it so easy to blank him in 4 staright games (no points at all) and then limit him to just 2A in the final game of their 5 game playoff series --for just 2assists in 5GP --yet here he is tearing up the NHL so easily ? HE had ONLY 31 goals in 69GP last year in the reg season of the supposedly much easier WHL JR. league-yet if you project to 69 NHL games he'd get 32 goals in the allrgdely far more difficult NHL? HOW is this possible? Yes his assists in 69 games last year in the WHL reg season was 75 and he projects to ONLY about 42 NHL assists extrapolated to 69 games -so at least that (still a pretty incredible total for any NHL rookie -and the seasonstill has to go to 82 GP) -but at least the decline in asists compared to his Jr. rate is EXPECTED ...but ceratinly NOT the goals rate-nor how easy it was for 12 Jr, team to basically shut him down...SO how do you explain all this? Everyone said he was fgood but not a "franchise" guy like Gretzky ,crosby,and certainly not a Stamkos as a goal scorere(his forte was supposed to be as a set-up guy)...SO HOW can he be scoring so many goals against "better" NHL-level goalies?

I'm confused-I do not understand-this was not supposed to be so easy to pile up this much finishing let alone points ..yet the facts are the facts...
I guess NHL guys have not been as physical on him as those guys from the HAT were last spring-the question is WHY NOT? They seem to have banged around Taylor Hall a lot more than RNH so far,and I thoght Hall was the better talent .so am i right? HAS the NHL opposition been too "soft" on RNH ? I had thought his weight would be a problem when the big bad NHL pros started banging him around-but so far they have apparently not laid a glove on him.the question is WHY NOT? I don't get it...

Some players play better with better players. In the NHL the players all know how to play the game correctly and are in the right spots all the time (not chasing the puck) also NHL hockey players pass (a lot of CHL players try to make them self better by scoring instead of passing). the Better the league the better a good hockey player will fit. The players that chase the puck and the players that dont pass do not make it in the NHL. Look at Kadri.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Part of it is a good transition on his part, part of it is linemates, part of it is that his on-ice shooting percentage is 30-50% above what it should be, and part of it is that he's getting relatively sheltered minutes (and rookies tend to get more space than the average player their first year).

He used to be THE guy who was keyed in on in Junior. He is now having that load shared tremendously, especially with Renney matching guys like Horcoff and Belanger up against the big dogs when he gets the chance.

 

[ekcut]

It's simular to why it is so hard to play poker agaisnt someone that doesn't know what they are doing. They are impossible to read because they unknowingly go against all logic and reason and do something unexpected.

I think it is safe to say RNH excels because of his hockey brain....RNH knows what players are going to do before they do it....but when teamed with players that lack hockey sense, he knows what they SHOULD be doing before they SHOULD be doing it...but they don't do it. So he had to rely on his physical hockey skills in Jr, and didnt fully utilize his best tool...his brain.

 

[jukon]

And he's just getting started.