Player Discussion Ryan Nugent-Hopkins '16-17 and Beyond

[nabob]

We are talking about going to the bar for a few drinks. People did it back then and they do it today and will do it tomorrow.

To use that to sleight a player is pretty weak. Bottom line is are they doing their job on the ice or not? The rest is tabloid lunch wagon talk.

Are we talking about the average person who played hocked up until bantam or are we talking about the top 0.01% of players to lace up skates?

 

[backhandsauce]

I see a 20-50 year from Nuge.

70 pts.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Are we talking about the average person who played hocked up until bantam or are we talking about the top 0.01% of players to lace up skates?

Both. Wayne Gretzky puts his pants on one leg at a time.

At the end of the day people are people, regardless of fame, money etc.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Both. Wayne Gretzky puts his pants on one leg at a time.

At the end of the day people are people, regardless of fame, money etc.

Gretz was Gretz, I'm sure that McDavid would probably be alright if he had a few drinks as well based on his work ethic and high end skill level. That said times they are a changing.

 

[CornKicker]

I see a 20-50 year from Nuge.

70 pts.

i agree a healthy nuge is going to prove how valuable he can be

 

[CornKicker]

He had a poor season period. Even if his stats say that he was on pace for 50ish points he played very poorly almost all season long. For this reason I think that it was injury related. If it wasn't I hope that he did some soul searching this offseason because his play was completely unacceptable and this is coming from a big fan of his.

the dude broke his hand, that messes with everything he does faceoffs, stickhandling, poke checking/stickchecking etc. i dont think it was a question

 

[Canovin]

the dude broke his hand, that messes with everything he does faceoffs, stickhandling, poke checking/stickchecking etc. i dont think it was a question

I think BBO was referring to RNH before the broken hand. He was riding cocktail throughout. He's a lot better than this. We've seen it in his rookie year.

 

[Jejune]

I think the biggest thing for Nuge is that I don't take him in my hockey pool. Seems every year I get some Oilers in "steal" positions, and then they have a down year. But not this year!

 

[Bryanbryoil]

the dude broke his hand, that messes with everything he does faceoffs, stickhandling, poke checking/stickchecking etc. i dont think it was a question

I'm as big of a RNH fan as you'll find but he was garbage last season. Before and after the hand injury. IMO something was bothering him before the broken hand because at no point did he look like the Nuge of the season prior.

 

[nabob]

Both. Wayne Gretzky puts his pants on one leg at a time.

At the end of the day people are people, regardless of fame, money etc.

Gretz and the boys also the job done, which as you said is "the bottom line". Hall and the boys were not getting the job done on the ice.

 

[Mr Positive]

Nuge is in a juncture spot. I don't see us moving him, not while McDavid or Draisaitl are so young, but as time goes on Nuge gets more expendable and the cap space keeps shrinking and shrinking.

It seems telegraphed that his time here is running out. For now, I would say we just see how things work out this season and re-assess. The story is always being re-written, and he seems like a great player to keep if we can.

 

[Aerchon]

Nuge is in a juncture spot. I don't see us moving him, not while McDavid or Draisaitl are so young, but as time goes on Nuge gets more expendable and the cap space keeps shrinking and shrinking.

It seems telegraphed that his time here is running out. For now, I would say we just see how things work out this season and re-assess. The story is always being re-written, and he seems like a great player to keep if we can.

Chiarelli and McLellan build and develop down the middle, back end, and in goal.

Nuge is not going anywhere unless even more top tier centers are being signed via FA, traded for, or developed.

I agreed with you pre Hall being moved. Now that Hall is gone and Larsson here there is no reason Nuge gets moved. No way, no how.

 

[Tarus]

I think BBO was referring to RNH before the broken hand. He was riding cocktail throughout. He's a lot better than this. We've seen it in his rookie year.

He's had one seemingly good rookie season(riding shotgun beside Hall/Ebs on a hot powerplay while playing behind Horcoff/Smyth who both started at ppg paces for 2 months), and 4 sh***y seasons of tepid, ineffective play while being completely dependent on his linemates to do most of the heavy lifting for him. The play over the long haul is probably a far better indicator of his abilities than the one off rookie season that is now ancient history.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He's had one seemingly good rookie season(riding shotgun beside Hall/Ebs on a hot powerplay while playing behind Horcoff/Smyth who both started at ppg paces for 2 months), and 4 sh***y seasons of tepid, ineffective play while being completely dependent on his linemates to do most of the heavy lifting for him. The play over the long haul is probably a far better indicator of his abilities than the one off rookie season that is now ancient history.

If you could not see that he was a better player in '14-15 than at any other point except his rookie season then you have a clear bias or you just weren't paying attention.

 

[Fishy McScales]

If you could not see that he was a better player in '14-15 than at any other point except his rookie season then you have a clear bias or you just weren't paying attention.

Yep, Nuge looked like he was breaking out in 14-15, then something happened because last year he just looked off.

Still, his actual production last year compared to other centres around the league wasn't as bad as it is made out to be. But he definitely had a poor season by his standards.

 

[McGoMcD]

If you could not see that he was a better player in '14-15 than at any other point except his rookie season then you have a clear bias or you just weren't paying attention.

He was easily our best player that year. He looked fast, he looked like he was on a mission.

last year, I don't even understand. Just hope the real nuge shows up next year. We really need him.

 

[Tarus]

If you could not see that he was a better player in '14-15 than at any other point except his rookie season then you have a clear bias or you just weren't paying attention.

Unfortunately, the Oilers weren't moved to the eastern conference this offseason so he could pad his stats against the eastern conference, nor do I see RNH getting to be the triggerman on a powerplay clipping along at a 30% rate anytime soon either.

I'm not surprised that the 17 point month of march has has you thinking he was great that year though, his play in the other 5 months of that year were very forgettable.

 

[Canovin]

He's had one seemingly good rookie season(riding shotgun beside Hall/Ebs on a hot powerplay while playing behind Horcoff/Smyth who both started at ppg paces for 2 months), and 4 sh***y seasons of tepid, ineffective play while being completely dependent on his linemates to do most of the heavy lifting for him. The play over the long haul is probably a far better indicator of his abilities than the one off rookie season that is now ancient history.

RNH in his rookie year was in a good environment and was driven. Sheltered and had opportunities to become the offensive dynamo he was drafted to be. He's in the right environment now with better cast than ever. I cannot see why he couldn't ignite that fire he once had. This is coming from a guy who's been criticising him the last couple of seasons. The skills are there. It's comes down to the will

 

[Fishy McScales]

Unfortunately, the Oilers weren't moved to the eastern conference this offseason so he could pad his stats against the eastern conference, nor do I see RNH getting to be the triggerman on a powerplay clipping along at a 30% rate anytime soon either.

I'm not surprised that the 17 point month of march has has you thinking he was great that year though, his play in the other 5 months of that year were very forgettable.

I disagree that they were forgettable because I remember a player playing with some swag and determination. That goal he scored in Philly is a good example; he just showed a different gear and physical strength we hadn't seen previously.

But then last season he shied away from things like that and just seemed stuck in traffic all the time. Clueless with the puck and off the pace. Weird.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Unfortunately, the Oilers weren't moved to the eastern conference this offseason so he could pad his stats against the eastern conference, nor do I see RNH getting to be the triggerman on a powerplay clipping along at a 30% rate anytime soon either.

I'm not surprised that the 17 point month of march has has you thinking he was great that year though, his play in the other 5 months of that year were very forgettable.

30% is wishful thinking for any team.

I guess you forgot the road trip after Hall got hurt and RNH was clearly our best player for 7-8 games. Start to finish he was our most consistent and best player that season. That was the best version of RNH that we've seen since his rookie season ('14-15).

I disagree that they were forgettable because I remember a player playing with some swag and determination. That goal he scored in Philly is a good example; he just showed a different gear and physical strength we hadn't seen previously.

But then last season he shied away from things like that and just seemed stuck in traffic all the time. Clueless with the puck and off the pace. Weird.

People saying that '14-15 Nuge = '15-16 Nuge really weren't watching very closely.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Last year was a disappointment for sure, the hand is obvious and I think being sick early on had a big impact as well, it takes a while before you're really 100%.
Also it was only a disappointment because he's 1st OA RNH and we have high expectations for him.. his bad year facing who he does is better than most guys good years, I think he gets dumped on more than he deserves. He should bounce back this year and hopefully make some improvements.

I found this article while googling to find out when he was sick.. good read and nice and short

http://lowetide.ca/2016/07/25/re-16-17-ryan-nugent-hopkins-the-weight/comment-page-1/

The QoC/O-Zone chart says a lot and it's amusing that he was facing 1st line opponents with 3rd line teammates

 

[TheRebuild]

He's had one seemingly good rookie season(riding shotgun beside Hall/Ebs on a hot powerplay while playing behind Horcoff/Smyth who both started at ppg paces for 2 months), and 4 sh***y seasons of tepid, ineffective play while being completely dependent on his linemates to do most of the heavy lifting for him. The play over the long haul is probably a far better indicator of his abilities than the one off rookie season that is now ancient history.

This seems a bit harsh to me. His only truly BAD season was the lock-out year, and last year was kind of an injury year for him. The way I see it, he's had 3 really good seasons for a young un-sheltered center playing on a ****ing ******* hockey team.

 

[CornKicker]

I disagree that they were forgettable because I remember a player playing with some swag and determination. That goal he scored in Philly is a good example; he just showed a different gear and physical strength we hadn't seen previously.

But then last season he shied away from things like that and just seemed stuck in traffic all the time. Clueless with the puck and off the pace. Weird.

the best is how that breakout came from our goalie........

 

[Replacement*]

If you could not see that he was a better player in '14-15 than at any other point except his rookie season then you have a clear bias or you just weren't paying attention.

Really? Nuge had a paltry 34pts on march 1st that season. With plenty of "whats wrong with Nuge" questions and other injury excuses made up most of that 14-15 season. The only time he looked like Nuge of old was one month, March 2015, in which he had 19 pts, or 1/3 of his season total, all contained in that one month. The next hottest month was 9pts. to put it into perspective.

March 2015 is the only month in the last 2 seasons where Nuge looked to be driving the play.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Really? Nuge had a paltry 34pts on march 1st that season. With plenty of "whats wrong with Nuge" questions and other injury excuses made up most of that 14-15 season. The only time he looked like Nuge of old was one month, March 2015, in which he had 19 pts, or 1/3 of his season total, all contained in that one month. The next hottest month was 9pts. to put it into perspective.

March 2015 is the only month in the last 2 seasons where Nuge looked to be driving the play.

16-22-38 points in 61 games on March 1st. His 41 ES points were a career high, his 24 goals were a career high, his 189 shots were a career high, his 92 hits and 37 blocked shots were also career highs. Meh not a good year for him, just par for the course but for some reason lots of personal bests that season. The only area that he really struggled in was on the PP where he had career lows in PP goals (2) and PP points (14) in a non lockout season up to that point. Naturally he had less PPP this season but he also only played 55 games.