Ryan Kesler Part III

[shortshorts]

Regarding Kesler's ES numbers, or lack thereof, the fact he is arguably the only one driving his line could be why they have been in a decline. This coincides with his emergence as an elite defensive centre in 2009. Whenever he's played, teams focus largely on attempting to neutralize him. For comparison sake...

Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Palvelski

Knuitz - Crosby - Stempniak
Jokinin - Malkin - Neal

Gaborik - Anze Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Handzus - Hossa

Notice how each of those teams have at least two players who are consistently top six players or broke out at the right time in case of LA? This means their opposition cannot afford to say, focus entirely on Malkin or Carter, because in doing so they expose themselves to Neal, Pearson or Toffoli. Kesler does not have that luxury. The problem isn't Higgins being on his line, it's the fact neither have another top six forward to take the pressure away from Kesler.

If we signed Hemsky, Cammalleri, Iginla or Kassian broke out next year. I wager you see an increase in Kesler's ES numbers. Perhaps not to his 2009 days, but certainly up from last year.

Certainly debatable. However, based on how people hype Kesler it'd sound like he's on par with every second line centre listed except for Malkin.

Carter is a great example of a top centre making his inferior line-mates much better.

 

[Desai87]

Certainly debatable. However, based on how people hype Kesler it'd sound like he's on par with every centre listed except for Malkin.

Carter is a great example of a top centre making his inferior line-mates much better.

Where did people on here compare Kesler to players like Crosby, Toews, Kane?

Carter also played with players like Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Gaborik.

Who has Kesler played with?

Its funny how people keep saying he is no 'beastmode' but he is if you look at the players he plays with and he plays vs other teams best players.

 

[polarbearcub]

It's an awfully quiet news day regarding trades

 

[Lundface*]

Regarding Kesler's ES numbers, or lack thereof, the fact he is arguably the only one driving his line could be why they have been in a decline. This coincides with his emergence as an elite defensive centre in 2009. Whenever he's played, teams focus largely on attempting to neutralize him. For comparison sake...

Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Palvelski

Knuitz - Crosby - Stempniak
Jokinin - Malkin - Neal

Gaborik - Anze Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Handzus - Hossa

Notice how each of those teams have at least two players who are consistently top six players or broke out at the right time in case of LA? This means their opposition cannot afford to say, focus entirely on Malkin or Carter, because in doing so they expose themselves to Neal, Pearson or Toffoli. Kesler does not have that luxury. The problem isn't Higgins being on his line, it's the fact neither have another top six forward to take the pressure away from Kesler.

If we signed Hemsky, Cammalleri, Iginla or Kassian broke out next year. I wager you see an increase in Kesler's ES numbers. Perhaps not to his 2009 days, but certainly up from last year.

The Sedins will see gains if other offensive players are brought in.

As it stands Henrik is dragging Daniel plus another linemate with nothing behind him. The pressure is squarely on the Sedins, teams don't have to worry about any other option on the Canucks.

Before Kesler was able to play cleanup and feast on easy matchups (with Malholtra took the defensive responsibilities) but all of that is gone.

Kesler's defensive play has fallen off as far as his offence has. His reputation is what makes people make excuses for his lack of offence, but he was terrible in his own end this past season as well.

But the problem runs much deeper than the top 3 players on this team. Looking at playoff production its pathetic the production this team gets out of any player not named Sedin or Kesler.

You want to go deep? You'll need to add two to 6 forwards and bump others down the lineup.

As for Kesler- he's not a player that can drive or create much offence. Santorelli looked much better with worse linemates than Kesler last season. His level of play has dropped off significantly, might have something to do with him wanting to leave, but he isn't near the player people think he is.

When you listen to Benning or Desjardins, both of whom are from outside this organization, each guy speaks glowingly of the Sedins. As leaders, as players as humans. Sounds like people inside hockey circles can see the character of these guys as well as their ability.

 

[GetFocht]

It's an awfully quiet news day regarding trades

1.) that means their talks are serious rather than leaking rumors to the media for leverage.

2.) NHL execs are flying to NHL draft now

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Certainly debatable. However, based on how people hype Kesler it'd sound like he's on par with every second line centre listed except for Malkin.

Carter is a great example of a top centre making his inferior line-mates much better.

It's less about comparability and simple numbers. No matter how good a player is, they can only do so much if the opposition focuses primarily on them. Kesler plays a less cerebral game, relying on his size, aggression and himself to get the job done; in other words he's very much a winger that is good at draws and defensively stellar. Instead of picking apart the associated negativity of that style, I would prefer finding players who play to Kesler's strengths.

Take Hemsky for instance. A solid playmaker who will allow Kesler to focus on what he does best, by getting him the puck while in a scoring position. Even Cammalleri is versatile enough in this regard to help balance Kesler's game.

Sure, we could trade Kesler in hopes of developing the more prototypical centre, but provided he is willing to stay. We are a better team complimenting him than trading him away.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

We aren't rehashing the 2011 Cup Run here, folks.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Am I the only damn poster on this entire forum who thinks it's hilarious Kesler did not receive ONE damn vote for the Selke award?

Come on guys, I can't be the only one. Some one validate me! Or at least give me a reason to think otherwise!

 

[John Bender*]

Come on guys, I can't be the only one. Some one validate me! Or at least give me a reason to think otherwise!

I don't know. I did not laugh when I read your comment.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Come on guys, I can't be the only one. Some one validate me! Or at least give me a reason to think otherwise!

I can't imagine many players at -15 are getting Selke consideration.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Come on guys, I can't be the only one. Some one validate me! Or at least give me a reason to think otherwise!

I'm actually shocked a few Canucks didn't get at least a few votes for major awards:
1. Torts for coach of the year.
2. Gillis for GM of the year.
3. Edler for the Norris.
4. Burrows for the Lady Byng.
5. Booth for the Masterton.

Bloody Eastern media bias!

 

[deckercky]

Well...I'll put it this way - Kesler deserved Selke votes over the three votes Steen got.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Regarding Kesler's ES numbers, or lack thereof, the fact he is arguably the only one driving his line could be why they have been in a decline.

People seem to forget that Higgins was the most consistent player this season. Or by driving do you mean not getting an assist since January?

#keslerRevolution

 

[Lundface*]

Come on guys, I can't be the only one. Some one validate me! Or at least give me a reason to think otherwise!

He was terrible defensively last season. Missed tons of defensive assignments, was poor cutting passing lanes off, had issues clearing loose pucks, if you watched him play he was not very good.

Hard to give you a reason why, either you see it or you don't. Considering he was the absolute worst -15 of any forward on the Canucks last season it shouldn't be too hard to fathom.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

People seem to forget that Higgins was the most consistent player this season. Or by driving do you mean not getting an assist since January?

#keslerRevolution

I know I can't wait to see him drive the 2nd line without that assist black hole anchor Ryan Kesler

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

He was terrible defensively last season. Missed tons of defensive assignments, was poor cutting passing lanes off, had issues clearing loose pucks, if you watched him play he was not very good.

Hard to give you a reason why, either you see it or you don't. Considering he was the absolute worst -15 of any forward on the Canucks last season it shouldn't be too hard to fathom.

Kesler played some of the toughest minutes on one of the lowest scoring teams in franchise history, It shouldn't take a genius to see why he was -15.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I don't know. I did not laugh when I read your comment.

It wasn't supposed to be funny?

I can't imagine many players at -15 are getting Selke consideration.

Eh, just part of the stupidity this (and many awards) have become, IMO. I thought his season would warrant at least 1 fifth place vote at the least. Especially since he's only 3 years removed from his winning the trophy.

I'm actually shocked a few Canucks didn't get at least a few votes for major awards:
1. Torts for coach of the year.
2. Gillis for GM of the year.
3. Edler for the Norris.
4. Burrows for the Lady Byng.
5. Booth for the Masterton.

Bloody Eastern media bias!

Torts was robbed, but I still think Luongo should have won the Mark Messier Leadership Award.

Well...I'll put it this way - Kesler deserved Selke votes over the three votes Steen got.

Yeah, this is what I meant. I'm not saying Kesler should have been a finalist, but not ONE vote?

 

[Lundface*]

Kesler played some of the toughest minutes on one of the lowest scoring teams in franchise history, It shouldn't take a genius to see why he was -15.

The -15 was for people that wanted to see evidence of his poor play. In terms of his actual defensive play this past season- if you can't see it, and you don't understand it, then there's nothing anyone can do to show you.

Unless someone has game tape and a lot of time there's no way to win this argument.

You either go by his reputation or go by what you see on the ice. If you're going by his reputation then I can see why you might think he was good defensively (although no Selke votes for a previous winner tells you enough about how poor he really was)

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

The -15 was for people that wanted to see evidence of his poor play. In terms of his actual defensive play this past season- if you can't see it, and you don't understand it, then there's nothing anyone can do to show you.

Unless someone has game tape and a lot of time there's no way to win this argument.

You either go by his reputation or go by what you see on the ice. If you're going by his reputation then I can see why you might think he was good defensively (although no Selke votes for a previous winner tells you enough about how poor he really was)

If Kesler was that bad he would have been near Edler like +/- numbers- playing much easier competition. Golden boy Higgins was -14 playing less minutes and easier competition. Daniel Sedin at 0 despite getting easy-peezy competition. Love of everyone's life Jason Garrison -4 despite playing some of the easiest competition on the D core. Hansen a startling -9 despite playing even easier competition than Daniel.

Your argument is flawed.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

The -15 was for people that wanted to see evidence of his poor play. In terms of his actual defensive play this past season- if you can't see it, and you don't understand it, then there's nothing anyone can do to show you.

Unless someone has game tape and a lot of time there's no way to win this argument.

You either go by his reputation or go by what you see on the ice. If you're going by his reputation then I can see why you might think he was good defensively (although no Selke votes for a previous winner tells you enough about how poor he really was)

I agree. He was on for some shocking goals against. Maybe that was Edler's fault though?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

People seem to forget that Higgins was the most consistent player this season. Or by driving do you mean not getting an assist since January?

#keslerRevolution

Hence why I said the following "The problem isn't Higgins being on his line, it's the fact neither have another top six forward to take the pressure away from Kesler."

Who else did Kesler have to work with? Burrows, Hansen, Santorelli and Kassian. Now that could be fine, in theory. The problem is tweeners have to play to the utmost of their abilities for the entire season. Higgins? This was arguably his best year since he has a Hab. Depending on that level of consistency from both your linemates is not a great recipe for success.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Hence why I said the following "The problem isn't Higgins being on his line, it's the fact neither have another top six forward to take the pressure away from Kesler."

Who else did Kesler have to work with? Burrows, Hansen, Santorelli and Kassian. Now that could be fine, in theory. The problem is tweeners have to play to the utmost of their abilities for the entire season. Higgins? This was arguably his best year since he has a Hab. Depending on that level of consistency from both your linemates is not a great recipe for success.

Time to sell high on Higgins. If even half the GM's have the same opinion as some of these posters- that Higgins drove the 2nd line and was the Canucks most consistent forward we should be able to snag a 1st round pick for him, no?

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Time to sell high on Higgins. If even half the GM's have the same opinion as some of these posters- that Higgins drove the 2nd line and was the Canucks most consistent forward we should be able to snag a 1st round pick for him, no?

That or we are asking way too much for Kesler

 

[crazyforhockey]

I look at the Olympics and how good the Kane,Kesler looked ,

I look at Bergeron(who I think is a better offensive player than Kesler) and see Marchand or Seguin playing with him....and that's a good one two levels better linemates than Kesler has had in the last few years

 

[Alan Jackson]

Time to sell high on Higgins. If even half the GM's have the same opinion as some of these posters- that Higgins drove the 2nd line and was the Canucks most consistent forward we should be able to snag a 1st round pick for him, no?

The crazy thing is, if Higgins has a good year, there could be teams that might offer a late 1st for him at the deadline. GMs have a tendency lose their collective minds at the trade deadline, and on July 1st.