Value of: Ryan Graves

[Northern Avs Fan]

A couple years ago when I told Avs fans that Zadorov wasn't good they said "No you don't watch the games like we do. He's already a top 4 guy w/ clear top pairing potential."

Maybe looking at 1 year of player and deciding what they are isn't enough.

I never said I was sold on Graves being a definite Top-4 guy.

He still as a lot to prove. I just like him a lot more than Zadorov.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

Future top-6 winger prospect? Like a Kravtsov? No way.

 

[Richard88]

What level of prospect would Zadorov or Graves be able to fetch, respectively?

I figure that with the 2020 draft likely being held in June that'll ruin Sakic's plan of trading a Dman (likely Zadorov) to get back into the 2nd round... But as an alternative maybe we could acquire a recently drafted prospect that is equivalent to a 2nd in value (assuming Zadorov fetches like a 2nd + 3rd/4th or thereabouts).

 

[McJedi]

he doesn’t have the resume to land that

Yet... One more season like the one he just put together and he's fetching a much bigger haul than the Rangers would be comfortable parting with. At that point in 2021, it would start with the Rangers single best prospect and a 1st. Avs should hold him another season and see if he's really this good. He didn't play 10 good games in 2019-20. He played a full, consistent season with little fluctuation to his performances. Give him another year to see if he's flash in the pan or hit you across the face with a pan.

 

[Pia8988]

Yet... One more season like the one he just put together and he's fetching a much bigger haul than the Rangers would be comfortable parting with. At that point in 2021, it would start with the Rangers single best prospect and a 1st. Avs should hold him another season and see if he's really this good. He didn't play 10 good games in 2019-20. He played a full, consistent season with little fluctuation to his performances. Give him another year to see if he's flash in the pan or hit you across the face with a pan.

lets not get to out of hand. He had a good year, but wasn’t asked to do as much.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Future top-6 winger prospect? Like a Kravtsov? No way.

No I know Kratsov is more valuable than Graves, but are there any other prospects the rangers have that project to be top 6 wingers?

 

[TGWL]

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

We're not dealing one of our weaker prospect positions to put somebody on the left side, which is a much stronger prospect position. We still have Staal, and Smith for a year, with Lindgren playing left side with Fox on the right. Unless were getting a #1 left side guy, it makes no sense. We had Graves. We dealt Graves. We're not trading an asset of need back for him.

 

[TGWL]

He listened to that idiot AV too much early on as the GM where all AV wanted was soft, small puck moving defenseman. Loved Graves as a Rangers prospect. Was furious when they dealt him. AV's should not trade him. He was having a tremendous season.

I know, right? The 0 games he played must have really ticked AV off. Can't blame AV for using this GM authority to trade away Graves...

 

[bernmeister]

With Byram and likely Timmins coming into the lineup next year the Avs have to trade a defenseman. I don’t think Ian Cole will be on any teams “must have” lists and he’s a useful vet with just one year remaining anyway.

It’s almost all but certain that Zadorov is the guy being traded. He’s a wasted asset on the 3rd pairing and in all honesty he’ll be 4th on the LHD depth chart anyway behind Girard, Graves and Byram. However let’s say the Avs are more in love with the idea of getting a bigger return for the LHD they trade so they decide to field offers on Graves instead. What could he return?

Their needs would be a top 6 winger but I’m sure they’d entertain futures to help keep their cap situation in check.

corresponding quality I could see; a TOP 6 may be pushing it if the deal is 1:1 and not a package.

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

There is a prob here.
It's called exp draft = only 3 can be protected
Lindgren is a lock. Unless he is dealt, they have to and will protect Deangelo. Ditto Trouba, he doesn't have an NMC now, but I think it may kick in prior to exp dr taking place, so we have to presume unless traded now, he also needs to be protected.
That is 3 right there.
And that does not include Hajek, who looked good before getting injured and then got sidetracked upon return, and who we are not married to but would prefer, him being a key part of a large trade, not to have to give him away for nothing.

So if we deal for Graves (and it was bad enough we moved him, we got zip in return, one of GMJG's few real clunker decisions), that adds to the exp draft immediate issue, while if a prospect goes, that may work vs cap mgmt, which is not immediate concern for NY, but Rangers can't afford to ignore, either.

Future top-6 winger prospect? Like a Kravtsov? No way.

Yeah, someone like Kravtsov is not even close to being on the table.

 

[bernmeister]

No I know Kratsov is more valuable than Graves, but are there any other prospects the rangers have that project to be top 6 wingers?

The bluer blue chips we appear to need. The other guys are maybes, so feel free to inquire, but what I think may make sense is as follows:

Lias Andersson was a reach at 7OA, a hope that he could learn to skate at NHL level and get buy on his hustle and motor, which at least that is to his credit -- not much otherwise. Andersson can handle 4th line and compete for 3rd, depending on how strong that 3C/3W is.
That's your prospect.

You aim/ask was for a top 6 W prospect. Buchnevich fits that bill and then some, his veterans status removing any uncertainty factor. He's an affordable 3.25 thru next year, w/rfa still after that. At some point he's gonna want around 5, give or take based on his numbers; however, that is not an immediate concern. IMO Rangers should deal him and Strome for futures, selling high at a good price, and giving those mins to Kravtsov and Gauthier.

The other possible piece here, optional to the mix, is Brendan Smith. In another thread, @Richard88 propped if Avs offered cap relief to take on BS' expiring year, what futures (pick) could be expected. We agreed that after NY eats his bonus, Rangers could retain. Depending on how much the range would be between a 3rd and a 4th, and I voted to concede the full 3rd to get cap relief now and more mins to others, which overture he liked.

So recap on NY side we have some combo of:
Anderssen
Buchnevich
Smith

On the Colorado side we have
Graves +/++

what do Avs add?
what precise combo is your package w/precise details?

thoughts........

 

[Goulet17]

The bluer blue chips we appear to need. The other guys are maybes, so feel free to inquire, but what I think may make sense is as follows:

Lias Andersson was a reach at 7OA, a hope that he could learn to skate at NHL level and get buy on his hustle and motor, which at least that is to his credit -- not much otherwise. Andersson can handle 4th line and compete for 3rd, depending on how strong that 3C/3W is.
That's your prospect.

You aim/ask was for a top 6 W prospect. Buchnevich fits that bill and then some, his veterans status removing any uncertainty factor. He's an affordable 3.25 thru next year, w/rfa still after that. At some point he's gonna want around 5, give or take based on his numbers; however, that is not an immediate concern. IMO Rangers should deal him and Strome for futures, selling high at a good price, and giving those mins to Kravtsov and Gauthier.

The other possible piece here, optional to the mix, is Brendan Smith. In another thread, @Richard88 propped if Avs offered cap relief to take on BS' expiring year, what futures (pick) could be expected. We agreed that after NY eats his bonus, Rangers could retain. Depending on how much the range would be between a 3rd and a 4th, and I voted to concede the full 3rd to get cap relief now and more mins to others, which overture he liked.

So recap on NY side we have some combo of:
Anderssen
Buchnevich
Smith

On the Colorado side we have
Graves +/++

what do Avs add?
what precise combo is your package w/precise details?

thoughts........

Buchnevich has value, but Anderssen and Smith have very little at the moment. Graves has been playing a top-four role for the Avs this season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

We aren't dealing for a player we traded for a minor leaguer. The team made an error in how they assessed Graves, and re-acquiring that player for a valuable asset would be such bad PR.

Unlike some other posters said, Kravtsov is certainly on the table, in my opinion, but I don't see a good deal to be made here between the two teams.

 

[Richard88]

The bluer blue chips we appear to need. The other guys are maybes, so feel free to inquire, but what I think may make sense is as follows:

Lias Andersson was a reach at 7OA, a hope that he could learn to skate at NHL level and get buy on his hustle and motor, which at least that is to his credit -- not much otherwise. Andersson can handle 4th line and compete for 3rd, depending on how strong that 3C/3W is.
That's your prospect.

You aim/ask was for a top 6 W prospect. Buchnevich fits that bill and then some, his veterans status removing any uncertainty factor. He's an affordable 3.25 thru next year, w/rfa still after that. At some point he's gonna want around 5, give or take based on his numbers; however, that is not an immediate concern. IMO Rangers should deal him and Strome for futures, selling high at a good price, and giving those mins to Kravtsov and Gauthier.

The other possible piece here, optional to the mix, is Brendan Smith. In another thread, @Richard88 propped if Avs offered cap relief to take on BS' expiring year, what futures (pick) could be expected. We agreed that after NY eats his bonus, Rangers could retain. Depending on how much the range would be between a 3rd and a 4th, and I voted to concede the full 3rd to get cap relief now and more mins to others, which overture he liked.

So recap on NY side we have some combo of:
Anderssen
Buchnevich
Smith

On the Colorado side we have
Graves +/++

what do Avs add?
what precise combo is your package w/precise details?

thoughts........

If Buchevnich is available that would certainly be interesting. Lias Andersson is of zero interest though as we already have plenty of C depth beyond Mackinnon/Kadri (i.e. Jost/Compher/Kamenev/Bellemare/Newhook/Bowers).

The part of your post in bold isn't entirely correct. As per my post (quoted below for reference) I suggested Smith plus a 2nd or 3rd depending on retention - NOT a 3rd or 4th. I don't think there's any interest whatsoever in a cap dump for anything less than a 3rd - and even then it's not really all that interesting. The onus would be on Rangers to push for the cap dump rather than on Colorado, so it would probably take a 2nd to make the conversation interesting. After all, if all it took was a 3rd to move him he'd probably already have been moved by now.

Marleau's $6m cost a 1st so I suppose a 2021 2nd would be in the ballpark for $4.35m. Does that sound reasonable?

Alternatively you can retain some/pay the bonus and make it a 2021 3rd.

Not sure on the value, just throwing an idea out there.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Yeah. Graves is not going back to NY. It would be like something out of the movie Draft Day and would look really poor on that team.

 

[Richard88]

We aren't dealing for a player we traded for a minor leaguer. The team made an error in how they assessed Graves, and re-acquiring that player for a valuable asset would be such bad PR.

Unlike some other posters said, Kravtsov is certainly on the table, in my opinion, but I don't see a good deal to be made here between the two teams.

I agree. Kravtsov isn't bad value for a young top 4 LHD in a vacuum, but trading your recent 1st round pick for a player you gave away would be a terrible look.

There's also the fact that you're not as deep on the wings as you are at LHD. It makes more sense to just promote one of your many LHD prospects rather than trade for Graves.

That said, would you potentially be interested in a trade involving Jost and one of your recently drafted LHD prospects (eg. Robertson) plus a pick? Zadorov would also be available instead of Jost but you probably don't want a #4/5 LHD.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree. Kravtsov isn't bad value for a young top 4 LHD in a vacuum, but trading your recent 1st round pick for a player you gave away would be a terrible look.

There's also the fact that you're not as deep on the wings as you are at LHD. It makes more sense to just promote one of your many LHD prospects rather than trade for Graves.

That said, would you potentially be interested in a trade involving Jost and one of your recently drafted LHD prospects (eg. Robertson) plus a pick? Zadorov would also be available instead of Jost but you probably don't want a #4/5 LHD.

We actually have no LHD depth. Lindgren is the only proven left-sided defenseman who isn't terrible, and he's a rookie. Staal and Smith are borderline NHL'ers. Hajek sucks and is unproven. Rykov, Miller, Reunanen, Jones, Robertson all range from unproven to not NHL ready. There are some good prospects there, but no one that the team can count on for anything tangible. None of those guys are Bowen Byram, and you can bank on getting at least a top 4 defenseman.

On the wings, we have three top 6 six forwards, and then Kakko's going to get every chance over the upcoming years to claim a spot. We might not have much top 6 winger depth beyond that, but guys such as Lemieux and Gauthier have a chance to be second liners, and maybe Howden and Andersson do better as wingers. Thats four young NHL'ers who, worst case scenario, would be needed as a 4th winger if Kakko completely busts, and doesn't even turn into a top 6 NHL'er. We aren't deep in options on the wings, but it's not a need, at all. We could easily throw away a prospect like Kravtsov, and it wouldn't matter. I wouldn't do that for free, but if we can fill a need, I'd do so.

We have no need for Jost. I don't see how he differs tremendously from Howden and Andersson, two other recent first round picks who haven't yet found their footing in the NHL either. Zadorov would be more of a need, but it's hard to justify trading much for a player who was being scratched not that long ago.

 

[Richard88]

We actually have no LHD depth. Lindgren is the only proven left-sided defenseman who isn't terrible, and he's a rookie. Staal and Smith are borderline NHL'ers. Hajek sucks and is unproven. Rykov, Miller, Reunanen, Jones, Robertson all range from unproven to not NHL ready. There are some good prospects there, but no one that the team can count on for anything tangible. None of those guys are Bowen Byram, and you can bank on getting at least a top 4 defenseman.

On the wings, we have three top 6 six forwards, and then Kakko's going to get every chance over the upcoming years to claim a spot. We might not have much top 6 winger depth beyond that, but guys such as Lemieux and Gauthier have a chance to be second liners, and maybe Howden and Andersson do better as wingers. Thats four young NHL'ers who, worst case scenario, would be needed as a 4th winger if Kakko completely busts, and doesn't even turn into a top 6 NHL'er. We aren't deep in options on the wings, but it's not a need, at all. We could easily throw away a prospect like Kravtsov, and it wouldn't matter. I wouldn't do that for free, but if we can fill a need, I'd do so.

We have no need for Jost. I don't see how he differs tremendously from Howden and Andersson, two other recent first round picks who haven't yet found their footing in the NHL either. Zadorov would be more of a need, but it's hard to justify trading much for a player who was being scratched not that long ago.

Thanks for clarifying the situation with your prospects, I really appreciate it.

Fair point on Jost, though I'd would say he's a little bit more proven than either Howden or Andersson. Jost has also looked good in the playoffs (eg. against San Jose) which neither of Howden or Andersson have. Jost is definitely an NHL'er, a useful 3rd liner at least, which is more than can be said for Andersson at this stage.

• Jost:.......... 208gp .. 32g,... 40a ..... 72 points
  
• Howden: ...136gp ... 15g ... 27a ...... 42 points
• Andersson: 66gp .... 3g ...... 6a ....... 9 points

I don't think Zadorov getting scratched by Colorado affects his trade value all that much. Avs have a very deep D group after all, and his ATOI has also consistently been around 17-18mins over the last 2 years in spite of some sporadic dog-housing's by coach Bednar.

If you could get rid of Smith would you be interested in Zadorov for a 2nd + 3rd? Perhaps we could even absorb Smith if you retained a little and added another pick.

 

[Super Hans]

Leading the league in +/- has to be worth at least a 1st and 2nd.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Thanks for clarifying the situation with your prospects, I really appreciate it.

Fair point on Jost, though I'd would say he's a little bit more proven than either Howden or Andersson. Jost has also looked good in the playoffs (eg. against San Jose) which neither of Howden or Andersson have. Jost is definitely an NHL'er, a useful 3rd liner at least, which is more than can be said for Andersson at this stage.

• Jost:.......... 208gp .. 32g,... 40a ..... 72 points
  
• Howden: ...136gp ... 15g ... 27a ...... 42 points
• Andersson: 66gp .... 3g ...... 6a ....... 9 points

I don't think Zadorov getting scratched by Colorado affects his trade value all that much. Avs have a very deep D group after all, and his ATOI has also consistently been around 17-18mins over the last 2 years in spite of some sporadic dog-housing's by coach Bednar.

If you could get rid of Smith would you be interested in Zadorov for a 2nd + 3rd? Perhaps we could even absorb Smith if you retained a little and added another pick.

I definitely agree about Jost. He’s better than Andersson or Howden, but we just don’t have a need for him. We already have numerous first round picks who haven’t lived up to the hype that we need to try to develop.

I wouldn’t be against adding Zadorov, if it’s for cheap. 2nd and 3rd isn’t a bad offer, but we don’t have a second in the upcoming draft.

 

[Richard88]

I definitely agree about Jost. He’s better than Andersson or Howden, but we just don’t have a need for him. We already have numerous first round picks who haven’t lived up to the hype that we need to try to develop.

I wouldn’t be against adding Zadorov, if it’s for cheap. 2nd and 3rd isn’t a bad offer, but we don’t have a second in the upcoming draft.

It looks like the 2020 draft will be held in June, so any Zadorov trade would most likely involve 2021 picks.

In 2021 Rangers have extra picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds which would make it easier to absorb the loss of a 2nd + 3rd.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think if the Avs wanted to move out a D that they’d move Zadorov and keep Cole.

I honestly don’t see Byram and Timmins in the line up the same year. Too much pressure on a young D for a team trying to be a contender. Especially with Makar and Graves too.

I’d say it is more likely the Avs look to ADD to their D after loving Zadorov.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think if the Avs wanted to move out a D that they’d move Zadorov and keep Cole.

I honestly don’t see Byram and Timmins in the line up the same year. Too much pressure on a young D for a team trying to be a contender. Especially with Makar and Graves too.

I’d say it is more likely the Avs look to ADD to their D after loving Zadorov.

I think it’s likely that only one of Byram/Timmins makes the squad, but not impossible both get on the team.

They would be playing much more minor roles than Makar/Girard did this year, so it would be easier for them to handle it.

And yeah, I agree, I don’t see Cole moving. He had a solid season and offers good versatility being able to play both sides.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

I know, right? The 0 games he played must have really ticked AV off. Can't blame AV for using this GM authority to trade away Graves...

Are you really that clueless? Dude, the reason he didn't play any games is because AV never played big, physical, stay at home defenseman. It wasn't that hard to figure out my post. Or that AV hated D men like that if you actually watched Rangers games.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it’s likely that only one of Byram/Timmins makes the squad, but not impossible both get on the team.

They would be playing much more minor roles than Makar/Girard did this year, so it would be easier for them to handle it.

And yeah, I agree, I don’t see Cole moving. He had a solid season and offers good versatility being able to play both sides.

I see a lot of parallels between Philadelphia and Colorado’s d-cores and look what Philly did this year. Granted, Colorado has had more regular season success with their squad, but I think they ideally add a Braun or Niskanen on the right side if they move Zadorov.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I see a lot of parallels between Philadelphia and Colorado’s d-cores and look what Philly did this year. Granted, Colorado has had more regular season success with their squad, but I think they ideally add a Braun or Niskanen on the right side if they move Zadorov.

Im not against adding a top-4 RHD. I’d prefer someone in their mid 20’s. It would be nice to move Johnson down to the third pair, especially if the Avs think Timmins needs another year in the AHL.