Value of: Ryan Graves

[Cousin Eddie]

With Byram and likely Timmins coming into the lineup next year the Avs have to trade a defenseman. I don’t think Ian Cole will be on any teams “must have” lists and he’s a useful vet with just one year remaining anyway.

It’s almost all but certain that Zadorov is the guy being traded. He’s a wasted asset on the 3rd pairing and in all honesty he’ll be 4th on the LHD depth chart anyway behind Girard, Graves and Byram. However let’s say the Avs are more in love with the idea of getting a bigger return for the LHD they trade so they decide to field offers on Graves instead. What could he return?

Their needs would be a top 6 winger but I’m sure they’d entertain futures to help keep their cap situation in check.

Click to read more...

 

[TGWL]

I don't know that they would get bigger return on Graves.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't know that they would get bigger return on Graves.

Than Zadorov? Is that a joke?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Some team would offer up a 2nd or a 2nd + 3rd type deal or variation of a pick and mid level prospect.
Don't think his resume is long enough to warrant a 1st despite being 25 years old in 2 weeks.

From FLA, I'd be interested if we could move Yandle.
We own your 3rd this year but if I was to make a deal, I'd prefer the 2nd and 3rd be in off-setting years.

 

[Gecklund]

Than Zadorov? Is that a joke?

While Graves is definitely the better player this season, he also has less than 100 games played and is 24. I think he’d have pretty similar value to Zadorov. I don’t think either has enough value for a top 6 winger. Maybe a 2nd/3rd line tweener like Donskoi was for the Sharks.

 

[McJedi]

The Avs need to hold onto Graves and see if his 2019-20 season is something he's capable of sustaining or not. If he's capable of playing that way, he's worth a 1st++ because he's proven out to be a legit top 4 defenseman on most NHL teams. If he regresses, then they take a package of a 2/3 or whatever they can fetch. It doesn't make sense for the Avs to trade him this off-season unless they find a trading partner willing to ascribe to his 2019-20 season as his new normal and offers a bounty suggesting the same. Avs shouldn't hold their breath on this outcome.

What bodes well for the Avs is that Graves was consistent all season. His play didn't show swings. He was the same guy night in and night out. So it's possible he just put it all together in his early 20s and this is who he'll be for the next seven-nine years. I assume they'll resign him and that will be the end of these discussions. The Avs had a lot of good defenders in their system, but none of them are 6'5, 225lbs, kill penalties and block shots as Graves does. Byram, Timmins, Makar, Girard are super exciting to have on the roster, but they don't look or play anything like Graves does. Ian Cole is gone either this offseason or next. Zadorov likely this offseason. EJ is hanging around, but they need another guy that is built for defense moreso than offense.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Exactly the type of player the Rangers could use.

One of the big errors of Gorton's tenure with the Rangers.

 

[rent free]

i doubt a team would pay much for a flash in the pan

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I do think you could get a top-6 winger in a Graves deal, but you would need to add to Graves because he only has one year of production. If you found a team that needed a top-4 LHD, I think a deal could be made.

I know there’s some logic to selling high, but personally, I have no interest in trading Graves. I think we’re really banking on Byram having an excellent rookie season if Graves is moved.

I like Graves more than Zadorov by quite a bit. He’s more capable of playing the style of hockey we like to play, while also bringing that unique size element to the table.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

While Graves is definitely the better player this season, he also has less than 100 games played and is 24. I think he’d have pretty similar value to Zadorov. I don’t think either has enough value for a top 6 winger. Maybe a 2nd/3rd line tweener like Donskoi was for the Sharks.

I think there’s some confusion on this topic from people who didn’t watch the Avs this year.

Graves was MUCH better than Zadorov this year.

He was the superior player and was far more trusted by the coaching staff. Straight up; Zadorov was our worst defenceman this season. He had a great stretch of about ten games and other than that, he wasn’t good at all.

Graves also has bigger upside imo. While the two are close to the same age, Zadorov has played a lot more NHL games than Graves.

 

[95snipes]

I would rather keep Graves seeing as I doubt anyone would give anything too valuable for him. Worth more to us than in a trade. I've always felt that if he's on your third pairing (and he probably will be relatively soon), you have a good chance to win it all.

If we could package him, 1st, and prospect for a Rackell level player I'd be all for it. Short of that I'm more than happy to keep him.

 

[Gecklund]

I think there’s some confusion on this topic from people who didn’t watch the Avs this year.

Graves was MUCH better than Zadorov this year.

He was the superior player and was far more trusted by the coaching staff. Straight up; Zadorov was our worst defenceman this season. He had a great stretch of about ten games and other than that, he wasn’t good at all.

Graves also has bigger upside imo. While the two are close to the same age, Zadorov has played a lot more NHL games than Graves.

It doesn’t have anything to do with me not watching the Avs (because I did I have family that lives in Denver). It has everything to do with rookies flaming out after good season. I mean look at Yakupov. Guy had a good to great rookie season and isn’t in the NHL anymore. Zadorov and Graves have close to equivalent value because Zadorov has shown he can play despite a poor season this season.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It doesn’t have anything to do with me not watching the Avs (because I did I have family that lives in Denver). It has everything to do with rookies flaming out after good season. I mean look at Yakupov. Guy had a good to great rookie season and isn’t in the NHL anymore. Zadorov and Graves have close to equivalent value because Zadorov has shown he can play despite a poor season this season.

I agree that there’s a definite chance for regression, but what he showed this year was more consistency than Zadorov has ever shown as an Av.

Zadorov brings absolutely nothing to the offence, or transition game. Graves is a much more well rounded player. He also has better IQ in his own zone.

I think teams see more value in 2-way defenceman than defensive defenceman. Especially when the defensive guy isn’t even good defensively.

There’s also a clear difference in upside between the two players.

 

[Gecklund]

I agree that there’s a definite chance for regression, but what he showed this year was more consistency than Zadorov has ever shown as an Av.

Zadorov brings absolutely nothing to the offence, or transition game. Graves is a much more well rounded player. He also has better IQ in his own zone.

I think teams see more value in 2-way defenceman than defensive defenceman. Especially when the defensive guy isn’t even good defensively.

There’s also a clear difference in upside between the two players.

Zadorov is a year older than Graves and has played over 300 more games. I agree that Graves SHOULD have more value but to GMs he’s not going to.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Zadorov is a year older than Graves and has played over 300 more games. I agree that Graves SHOULD have more value but to GMs he’s not going to.

The fact that Zadorov has played 356 games and still needs to emerge is a negative for him, not a positive. There’s this weird thought that he’s going to break out, but he is what he is at this point.

Now, I will say that Graves definitely benefitted from playing next to Makar, because he didn’t play as well when he was injured.

But, it’s a credit to him, that the coaches felt he played well enough to be stapled next to Makar for pretty much the entire season.

 

[Gecklund]

The fact that Zadorov has played 356 games and still needs to emerge is a negative for him, not a positive. There’s this weird thought that he’s going to break out, but he is what he is at this point.

Now, I will say that Graves definitely benefitted from playing next to Makar, because he didn’t play as well when he was injured.

But, it’s a credit to him, that the coaches felt he played well enough to be stapled next to Makar for pretty much the entire season.

You aren’t understanding my point. There’s a reason the likes of Polak, Gubrandson, and Zadorov are still in the league and have been for a while. Zadorov has value to GMs whether you agree or not there’s tons of evidence that suggest this.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

You aren’t understanding my point. There’s a reason the likes of Polak, Gubrandson, and Zadorov are still in the league and have been for a while. Zadorov has value to GMs whether you agree or not there’s tons of evidence that suggest this.

Of course he has value. Every player does.

I’m not saying Zadorov isn’t a NHL defenceman. He is. He’s just not a Top-4 guy. He was placed too high in the lineup for Colorado because our defence was trash can status for years.

Graves played essentially a full season as a top-4 guy. That’s better than what Zadorov has ever done as an Av.

 

[Gecklund]

Of course he has value. Every player does.

I’m not saying Zadorov isn’t a NHL defenceman. He is. He’s just not a Top-4 guy. He was placed too high in the lineup for Colorado because our defence was trash can status for years.

Graves played essentially a full season as a top-4 guy. That’s better than what Zadorov has ever done as an Av.

Again I agree with you. There’s tons of evidence that GMs don’t agree with us though. They have similar value.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Exactly the type of player the Rangers could use.

One of the big errors of Gorton's tenure with the Rangers.

He listened to that idiot AV too much early on as the GM where all AV wanted was soft, small puck moving defenseman. Loved Graves as a Rangers prospect. Was furious when they dealt him. AV's should not trade him. He was having a tremendous season.

 

[SI]

With Byram and likely Timmins coming into the lineup next year the Avs have to trade a defenseman. I don’t think Ian Cole will be on any teams “must have” lists and he’s a useful vet with just one year remaining anyway.

It’s almost all but certain that Zadorov is the guy being traded. He’s a wasted asset on the 3rd pairing and in all honesty he’ll be 4th on the LHD depth chart anyway behind Girard, Graves and Byram. However let’s say the Avs are more in love with the idea of getting a bigger return for the LHD they trade so they decide to field offers on Graves instead. What could he return?

Their needs would be a top 6 winger but I’m sure they’d entertain futures to help keep their cap situation in check.

I seriously doubt Timmins and Byram start in the NHL next season.

Colorado could be favorites to win division next season - It would be pretty stupid to have a 19 and 20 year old playing regular minutes. Keep your vets and develop your players. You need a top 6 go buy one on the free agent market you have the cap space

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Unless the offers are unbelievably great. Colorado shouldn't trade either graves or zadorov.
No cap issues and never erode defensive depth unless the cap takes hold.

 

[Pia8988]

I'd deal Graves, and a larger defensive LHD dman is exactly what the Rangers need. What future top 6 winger prospect would they would be willing to deal.

he doesn’t have the resume to land that

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think there’s some confusion on this topic from people who didn’t watch the Avs this year.

Graves was MUCH better than Zadorov this year.

He was the superior player and was far more trusted by the coaching staff. Straight up; Zadorov was our worst defenceman this season. He had a great stretch of about ten games and other than that, he wasn’t good at all.

Graves also has bigger upside imo. While the two are close to the same age, Zadorov has played a lot more NHL games than Graves.

A couple years ago when I told Avs fans that Zadorov wasn't good they said "No you don't watch the games like we do. He's already a top 4 guy w/ clear top pairing potential."

Maybe looking at 1 year of player and deciding what they are isn't enough.

 

[Richard88]

I seriously doubt Timmins and Byram start in the NHL next season.

Colorado could be favorites to win division next season - It would be pretty stupid to have a 19 and 20 year old playing regular minutes. Keep your vets and develop your players. You need a top 6 go buy one on the free agent market you have the cap space

Byram has nothing left to achieve in the WHL but can't play in the AHL so he'll certainly be in the NHL albeit getting sheltered minutes to start with.

Timmins is having a great season in the AHL and will be in contention to make the opening night roster. That said, seeing as Byram will be on the 3rd pairing it's likely that we start the season with Cole instead of Timmins, with Timmins in the AHL.

To start the season:

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Byram --- Cole
MacDonald (Timmins AHL)​

Once Byram gets up to speed in the league we'll call Timmins up and he'll stay up for good, most likely next to Girard so that we don't have two rookies on the same pairing.

​

After 10-20 games

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Timmins
Byram --- Johnson
Cole​

As far as having 19 and 20 year old's playing regular minutes, isn't that precisely what Makar and Girard have been doing? Seems to have turned out alright...