4 months is quite a lot of time to outline to your scouts which direction to go to via the draft, even if it’s the scouts who make the final decision. It’s not like their results after 2013 have been great either. The only 2 picks I would categorize as “good” were their top 10 picks in Werenski and PLD.
RW Yegor Chinakhov (2020, 21st, CBJ)
- Thread starter Caser
- Start date
4 months is quite a lot of time to outline to your scouts which direction to go to via the draft, even if it’s the scouts who make the final decision. It’s not like their results after 2013 have been great either. The only 2 picks I would categorize as “good” were their top 10 picks in Werenski and PLD.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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Trust me, I've been working on this for years on the CBJ board.
However, you're also not giving enough praise within your criticsms.
In 2013, there isn't too many players in that first round drafted after Wennberg who are better. And I believe Wennberg will rebound well in Florida. He's not a bad pick.
Rychel was bad. Jarmo and co. wanted Lazar. But Rychel was in fact flipped at the height of his value for Scott Harrington, who while isn't special, is certainly an upgrade on Rychel.
Dano was again nothing special. But he did have a massive spark when he was with the CBJ and allowed them to trade for Saad because of it. So while he maybe didn't pan out, Jarmo sold high on him and got an amazing return.
He also got Oliver Bjorkstrand in the third round. Which is very good.
2014 was a complete whiff. Elvis is good, and the rest is awful. Milano could still spark elsewhere though.
2015 was pretty good. Werenski is a stud. Nutivaara is great value in the 7th, and Gavrikov is a solid player. Carlsson was a massive whiff though.
2016 is still TBD. But obviously the right move was made with PLD-Puljujarvi. Peeke looks like a good player. Abramov was moved for a massive win now piece. The rest is nothing special.
2017-20 also TBD. We'll see. Texier looks good. Bemstrom has potential. Foudy has potential. Tarasov is one of the best young prospect goalies in the world. Marchenko has high potential. Chinakhov is having a good year.
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I don't think you can ask why Jarmo has such a reputation for drafting and then say that certain rounds don't count. He has a reputation partly because he can find good players in any round, and they do count.
2013 was an utter disaster, but it was for most teams, it was an awful draft. Wennberg still has more points than any player drafted after him. No real excuse for 2014, it was bad. But Jarmo was able to get Bjorkstrand and Merzlikins out of those drafts, and that is more than most clubs got out of it. You say "only PLD and Werenski", as if only two of the best young players in the game should be a poor result. Imagine what it would do for a team like Buffalo to get talent like these four players. Or Gavrikov in the 6th round.
His reputation as a good drafter goes back to Ottawa and St. Louis, it was the first thing we heard about him in Columbus. Beyond that, the late round gems are always a good sign. Some clubs like Edmonton and Colorado are coming out of a decade with practically zero successful day 2 picks. So it's a big deal that Jarmo seems to get someone on day 2 every year. More recently, it did actually take some balls to go with Dubois over Puljujarvi. In 2017, Jarmo traded Kolesar for a 2nd rounder and got Texier, a French kid that wasn't on many teams' radar who is now shaping up into a top six forward. In 2018, he took Foudy in the first round, about twenty spots higher than most had him listed. All of those picks are looking really good right now.
You can have a real debate about whether the drafting from picks 10-30 has been good or not, but there's a pretty limited sample there so why not look at the full evidence?
lawrence
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- May 19, 2012
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Ricel ok fine bad, but Wenneberg wasn't a bad pick and a 59 point season as a 22 year old, his game just wasnt suited for Torterella style. Legit 2nd line forward. Should rebound in Florida as it looks like he will end up playing with Barkov.
What I previously said has sparked some massive discussion which is great. I probably am being too hard on Jarmo and co. since they do draft well after round 1. Yet I stick by what I said since I’d rather continuously hit on my first rounders than mid round picks since you just get better difference makers. In my books CBJ is a mediocre drafting team and that’s why I’m not giving them the benefit of the doubt with Chinakhov just yet, let’s see how it plays out!!
1+1 so far in the 2nd period vs Amur.
Amirov scored yesterday, Podkolzin was good in the last few games... it looks like our kids are ready for WJC camp.
Amirov scored yesterday, Podkolzin was good in the last few games... it looks like our kids are ready for WJC camp.
Caser
@RUSProspects
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
That second goal is one that he wouldn’t have the confidence to make that pass playing in the AHL. A North American coach is benching a player for passing that, unless it results in a goal. Therefore, a player will take the safe option, and shoot.
If they do, they are dumber than I thought though. Because that is what makes the branded NA hockey so boring and random.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I think it’s exceedingly stupid when Europeans that grow up in a culture of passing the puck into the net, even if the motto is sometimes exaggerated, are told they need to get pucks on net or pass up making the extra pass to not miss taking an open shot. All players should be able to do what has brought them success to that point, as long as it’s not anything too antithetical to a team strategy.
Agreed. That is though the point of discussion of why Russians struggle when they jump to NA. The shoot-first culture is the actual culture shock that might be hitting them hard. Also the posession game is less valued in NA. I remember a Kuznetsov interview in which he said he was shocked at first he was told to dump pucks in when he first arrived in Washington. This is why they should learn out at home first before going to NA and adapting to requirements of NA coaches.
Obviously nowadays rarely a team both in the NHL or KHL plays those old school schemes to the letter. Everybody learned to take from both worlds to the extent they see fit. But especially in minor leagues and kids hockey there might still be some of that left.
Evgeny Oliker
Registered User
Techcoockie
Registered User
Love it when Bob Hartley talks each week at a French radio station about Chinakov, he LOVES him and is high on him.
canuckking1
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- Feb 8, 2015
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Techcoockie
Registered User
but the good side is a changed Yakupov who will play in the NHL next year per Hartley!
There has to be a NHL season first
I also really doubt Yakupov will ever have any kind of success in the NHL. Right now he is a so-so KHLer.
Techcoockie
Registered User
From what I saw and heard he is over the KHL level and he upgraded every facets of his game under Hartley. One of the fastest KHL skater and he runs a good line.
13 points in 28 games(7 in 13 with Avangard and Hartley) is definitely not above KHL level. In fact he is the least effective player on his line.
A coach talking up his player in order to motivate him and get the most out of him is probably what is happening now. Smart coaching idea, but I would take it with a big grain of salt.
SoundAndFury
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- May 28, 2012
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I'd check your sources.
Techcoockie
Registered User
SoundAndFury
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- May 28, 2012
- 11,359
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His coach said he is "over the KHl level"? Really? Being 7th in scoring on his own team? Maybe, just maybe you should consider the possibility his coach has his own reasons for saying that and that's not necessarily the truth. If he did in the first place, that is.
