News Article: Rutherford and Johnston are staying. Both of them.

[Shaftception]

MJ coached a good series against the Rangers.

No he freakin' didn't, why is reality so hard to grasp? Are people that desperate to find a silver lining?

What did he do? He made a less talented team play the trap to try to neutralize the skill and talent discrepency between his team and their opponent, ie. hockey coaching 101, since trapping was invented. You trap when you have no way of winning any other way. You lessen the skill gap by eliminating almost all possibility of defensive zone mistakes and thus rely on lucky bounces and deflections to hope to win enough before you're eliminated. Except doing the exact same thing countless coaches before him have done in no unique way, only amounted to the same conclusion a majority of teams in similar situations prior to his have ended in the past, losing, quickly and impotently, with the only praiseworthy accomplishment being they weren't run out of the building every game. Congrats, you lost slightly slower than everyone expected you too, such good coaching. Jesus christ.

Remember when the team bought media narrative was he was brought in to maintain the "style of play we want to play", ie. high scoring skilled possession hockey? I sure as **** do. Good to know that means dragging team scoring below league average, but oh what pretty possession numbers. Got half of it right.

 

[KIRK]

Rossi's a hack. He worshiped at the altar of Shero and Bylsma and rarely if ever said anything negative about them. Now that they're gone and Mario gave an interview to DK instead of him he hates the Penguins and posts nothing but anti Pens diatribes.

That Rossi is actually right with a lot of his articles this season is irrelevant - he's only arrived at the conclusions he's making because he wants to stick it to the Pens, just like how he was irrationally in favor of everything Shero/DB did because he liked them on a personal level.

Rossi doesn't think sit there and meaningfully analyze anything. He supported Shero/DB to a fault because he liked them, and now he's anti Pens because he feels slighted.

DK used to be fairly unbiased with his opinions. He'd form one and stick to it whether it was unpopular or not. I'm a bit perturbed by his sudden pro ownership tilt. I hope he's not becoming a schill just because they gave him that interview. DK used to be one of the good writers around town. He still posts a lot of good stuff, but I don't like the pro ownership/coaching tilt he's on now.

Of course he is.

 

[Pancakes]

No he freakin' didn't, why is reality so hard to grasp? Are people that desperate to find a silver lining?

What did he do? He made a less talented team play the trap to try to neutralize the skill and talent discrepency between his team and their opponent, ie. hockey coaching 101, since trapping was invented. You trap when you have no way of winning any other way. You lessen the skill gap by eliminating almost all possibility of defensive zone mistakes and thus rely on lucky bounces and deflections to hope to win enough before you're eliminated. Except doing the exact same thing countless coaches before him have done in no unique way, only amounted to the same a majority of teams in similar situations prior to his have accomplished in the past, losing, quickly and impotently, with the only praiseworthy accomplishment being they didn't lose by too much. Congrats, you lost slightly slower than everyone expected you too, such good coaching. Jesus christ.

Remember when the team bought media narrative was he was brought in to maintain the "style of play we want to play", ie. high scoring skilled possession hockey? I sure as **** do. Good to know that means dragging team scoring below league average, but oh what pretty possession numbers right? Got half of it right.

Well his team was a highscoring puck possession team in juniors. But in juniors his team had the horses to run that style.

Pens didn't. Maybe with a fully healthy defense and a bit of a retooled roster MJ can get the Pens to play that style. Maybe. I guess i'm not completely opposed to giving him one more year to see how he does with a fully healthy roster, but I'm skeptical about that being the right move with a good coach like Mccellan there and also with Babcock possibly becoming available.

 

[BigBenSF*]

No, I just watch games and realize that Lovejoy's terrible when put in a top 4 role, while Despres' size, speed, physical play and transition game helped Anaheim against a big, physical Jets team as much or more than it helped us when he was babysitting Scuds here, and would have helped us these playoffs.

Despres did have a fantastic first round, much better than Lovejoy's. But again, that was over a four and five game period. Cole had a terrible series compared to his production in the regular season, but his playoff performance doesn't mean that he's not good.

Give it a bit of time. Lovejoy was facing much more minutes than he was with the Ducks. He might still play in a top four role, but his amount of playing time will be much less than it will be this season. I think he'll rebound.

Cole's been solid enough, but he isn't Despres and can't have the same impact.

I actually disagree. Cole had similar production to Despres prior to March 1 and was incredible up until the playoffs. Both are former first round picks who can both be able to reach their potential with their new teams.

1. Because we didn't need a PMD like Ehrhoff. We had good young defensemen out the yin-yang but logjammed them with vets like Ehrhoff, who wasn't even good for us when he did play.

Ehrhoff was good but I think more people wanted him to be "physical", which is dumb. And I remember a quote by Johnston that explained how he wanted a PMD and a stay at home defenseman on each pairing for defensive zone breakouts. I think Ehrhoff fit Johnston's system.

3. It's not a 5 game sample size. Ehrhoff stunk. Despres got dealt despite playing well all year and continued to play well in Anaheim, while Lovejoy came here and played dubious hockey from Day One. We went from 5th to 19th in scoring in a single year, and we had no worse injuries this year than last.

Again, Ehrhoff wasn't bad. A 51.54 CF% isn't incredible, but it's not terrible. I hate the Despres-Lovejoy trade too, but there is some comfort in getting Cole from it.

And the 5th to 19th in scoring is certainly an interesting statistic. However, they were a good possession team, which shows some hope to the future.

 

[billybudd]

This is a valid point but one that I hope will be addressed in FA this summer. The timing of when the coach would be hired is also important but in the end it doesn't matter -- I'm just arguing hypothetically because of all the crap DK wrote I believe the part about Rutherford and Johnston going nowhere. It's not hard to believe with this team.

Unfortunately, outside of the KHL and some of the college guys (most of which were already signed by other people), the free agent wings this year are pretty terrible.

Assuming Fehr stays in Washington or gets signed as a center, Comeau might be the best NHL wing out there--no joke. Dr Pepper had a good post about how Beleskey's numbers are probably luck whereas Comeau's are more likely to be repeatable.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

No big surprise. The first let down of the summer is officially here. Now, onward! Let's trade Geno for a couple of middling 2nd/3rd liners! Might as well give Kunitz an 8 year deal!

**** this franchise. We deserve to lose every single game, and Sid and Geno should demand trades.

 

[plaidchuck]

The organization basically did everything backwards. They got a.juniors coach noted for offense and made him make the team more defensive and signed a top pp qb FA dman and put him in a shutdown role.

 

[Darth Vitale]

If the FA market is ****, start making moves. No one expects miracles -- just something better than overpaid old guys.

 

[KIRK]

Unfortunately, outside of the KHL and some of the college guys (most of which were already signed by other people), the free agent wings this year are pretty terrible.

Assuming Fehr stays in Washington or gets signed as a center, Comeau might be the best NHL wing out there--no joke. Dr Pepper had a good post about how Beleskey's numbers are probably luck whereas Comeau's are more likely to be repeatable.

How's it looking for teams in the west looking to move salary for futures or middle picks? I know Chicago will be. Not sure I'm in love with the three most frequently mentioned options, but . . . anyone else?

If you trade/buyout Kunitz, Scuderi, and Lovejoy and move Sutter, there's a decent amount of flexibility to allow you to go that route.

 

[KIRK]

If the FA market is ****, start making moves. No one expects miracles -- just something better than overpaid old guys.

Overpaid young guys okay?

 

[Shaftception]

Well his team was a highscoring puck possession team in juniors. But in juniors his team had the horses to run that style.

Pens didn't. Maybe with a fully healthy defense and a bit of a retooled roster MJ can get the Pens to play that style. Maybe. I guess i'm not completely opposed to giving him one more year to see how he does with a fully healthy roster, but I'm skeptical about that being the right move with a good coach like Mccellan there and also with Babcock possibly becoming available.

This is all true, which leads to the other truth, that there's no quick fix for them to have the horses to run that style, so they're jamming a johnston shaped peg into a talent bereft hole. They don't have enough good young talent coming ready to succeed in major roles by next season, they have no tradeable assets big enough without nmc's or carrying significant injury baggage that other teams will give them all the pieces they need in return for, and the remaining free agency list is a lost cause. Thus he's useless here because the roster he'd need to supposedly make his junior skill possession system work won't be available here next season, or the next, and his only fall back plan is something literally every single other hockey coach ever is just as capable of doing.

Maybe a better coach doesn't do any better, but at least someone different might have a philosophy and system that actually matches their roster.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'll be ****ing furious if Babcock leaves Detroit and we choose not to pursue him because we don't want to hurt Mike "Bylsma In Disguise" Johnston's feelings.

 

[KIRK]

This is all true, which leads to the other truth, that there's no quick fix for them to have the horses to run that style, so they're jamming a johnston shaped peg into a talent bereft hole. They don't have enough good young talent coming ready to succeed in major roles by next season, they have no tradeable assets big enough without nmc's or carrying significant injury baggage that other teams will give them all the pieces they need in return for, and the remaining free agency list is a lost cause. Thus he's useless here because the roster he'd need to supposedly make his junior skill possession system work won't be available here next season, or the next, and his only fall back plan is something literally every single other hockey coach ever is just as capable of doing.

Maybe a better coach doesn't do any better, but at least someone different might have a philosophy and system that actually matches their roster.

End of the day, I'd just like to see Sid and Geno playing in the NHL for a coach worthy of their talent.

I'll be ****ing furious if Babcock leaves Detroit and we choose not to pursue him because we don't want to hurt Mike "Bylsma In Disguise" Johnston's feelings.

Babcock isn't happening, because even if it could, there's no way they'd give him total control, and that's the only way I could fathom him even considering this job.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Despres did have a fantastic first round, much better than Lovejoy's. But again, that was over a four and five game period. Cole had a terrible series compared to his production in the regular season, but his playoff performance doesn't mean that he's not good.

Give it a bit of time. Lovejoy was facing much more minutes than he was with the Ducks. He might still play in a top four role, but his amount of playing time will be much less than it will be this season. I think he'll rebound.

I don't see Lovejoy being good in anything above a bottom pair role. Odds aren't likely that Lovejoy's going to improve more than Despres from here on out. The trade was sold as a short-term improvement and a long-term loss by Rutherford himself, but it couldn't even deliver on that front.

I actually disagree. Cole had similar production to Despres prior to March 1 and was incredible up until the playoffs. Both are former first round picks who can both be able to reach their potential with their new teams.

Cole just doesn't have the tools or dynamism. Solid enough defenseman, but Despres is a game-changer. Our lack of size and physical play on the back end was obvious these playoffs. 6'4" defensemen who skate, hit, and play two-way hockey like that are a rare breed.

Ehrhoff was good but I think more people wanted him to be "physical", which is dumb. And I remember a quote by Johnston that explained how he wanted a PMD and a stay at home defenseman on each pairing for defensive zone breakouts. I think Ehrhoff fit Johnston's system.

Ehrhoff wasn't physical, or very good at either end. He was an expensive redundancy. We could have gotten a better, cheaper PMD had we simply given Despres a larger role and promoted one of Dumo or Harry. And then allotted that money somewhere it could have done some good, like forward.

But that's just me being ridiculous and assuming the org would attempt to follow through on its owners' mission statement this year.

And the 5th to 19th in scoring is certainly an interesting statistic. However, they were a good possession team, which shows some hope to the future.

You never know. But we already know that JR's moves and our subsequent pitiful scoring resulted in us getting ousted much faster than usual this year, and we have fewer good young assets moving forward than we had coming into the season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

This is an off-season where McLellan is available, and Babcock and Julien might be. But we're committed to a guy who can't bring himself to demote Kunitz or scratch Scuderi, and takes 70 games to realize Adams shouldn't play?

En route to a 5 game drubbing in the 1st round? Please.

Why is that?

I'd say after injuries started to pile up your expectations are too ******* high.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

End of the day, I'd just like to see Sid and Geno playing in the NHL for a coach worthy of their talent.



Babcock isn't happening, because even if it could, there's no way they'd give him total control, and that's the only way I could fathom him even considering this job.

Yep. If the breaking point is giving Babcock full control to coach and make personnel decisions, I'd hand him a blank check and give him the business cards of some real estate agents around Pittsburgh.

**** it. Give him full control. Can't be nearly as bad as the disaster we've seen over the past 5+ years, from two separate coaches and GMs (even if the rest of the front office is exactly the same).

Won't happen though. Lemieux got his playoff revenue. Yinzers ate that **** up about injuries being the sole purpose for this team's demise. "We'll get 'em next year! Time for the annual off-season opening April pool party at Mario's!"

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why is that?

I'd say after injuries started to pile up your expectations are too ******* high.

I'd say that if you're keeping Kunitz in the top 6 and Scuderi on the roster no matter how poorly they perform, you aren't giving the roster you have the best chance to win.

We had options. We have a disturber in Farnham we could bring up for a spark. We have a dynamic young scoring wing prospect who our illustrious WBS beat writer thinks should have been called up. We have a very good young defenseman in Harrington who's better than Scuds in every way.

But instead we stuck with what we knew didn't work and expected different results. Can't be surprised when that team falters.

 

[billybudd]

How's it looking for teams in the west looking to move salary for futures or middle picks? I know Chicago will be. Not sure I'm in love with the three most frequently mentioned options, but . . . anyone else?

If you trade/buyout Kunitz, Scuderi, and Lovejoy and move Sutter, there's a decent amount of flexibility to allow you to go that route.

Hawks will be moving one or both of Sharp or Bickell. You get size and jam with Bickell, but no speed. I like him, but he's not what they say they want. Sharp is Kunitz from a year ago with a harder shot, so no luck there, either

St Louis may be moving one or both of Oshie and Berglund. Oshie is a slicker, more physical Perron that actually plays d, but probably doesn't have as good of a shot and isn't as good of a passer. Doesn't add speed and he and Perron shouldn't coexist on the same roster. Berglund is a big, rangy finger-painting mutant. Jordan Staal the wing who spotfills at center, basically. I'd love him...to replace Sutter. Far as speed, I mean, he gets where he's going better than most of the guys we got, but his game is mostly that he's too big for normal people to cover properly or get away from.

Those are the only salary dumps in the West that I know of.

 

[Shaftception]

End of the day, I'd just like to see Sid and Geno playing in the NHL for a coach worthy of their talent.

It's really not so much to ask.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If the FA market is ****, start making moves. No one expects miracles -- just something better than overpaid old guys.

The FA market is ****. It's been ****. It's going to continue to be ****. The way the NHL has been trending for several years, teams aren't letting their quality players reach free agency anymore. There's a concerted effort by teams to lock good, young guys up as soon as they can.

And here we are, standing here with tons of deadweight on board. Gigantic holes throughout our lineup. Sid and Geno one year older, one season's worth of injuries added on. No real top flight, blue chip prospects in the pipeline to feel optimistic about.

The best guys we can hope for are Matthias--an upgrade over Sutter, but a 3C regardless. Beleskey--an intriguing player, but one that screams one-hit-wonder. Soderberg? Would be another 3C here, making a ton of money--or worse, we'd have another "Geno to wing?" situation.

It's too late to rely on the draft anymore. Those kids aren't gonna be ready to come in and make an impact on this team for 4 years, assuming we don't completely **** up their development or trade them before then. Free agency is garbage for fixing legitimate holes in your lineup and building a contender. The deadline is the worst possible time to get assets to build a contender. That leaves us with trades, and the position we've put ourselves in with the wasting of draft picks/prospects for so many years means we're going to have to part with someone big in order to rebuild.

Johnston is Bylsma in disguise. JR has no power, and likely hasn't since the Neal trade. Lemieux couldn't give a **** as long as seats are filled and jerseys sell.

This franchise is doomed. It's done everything in its power over the last decade since being gifted with Sid and Geno to shoot itself in the foot repeatedly, and do literally everything the wrong way.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

While I am all for the whine party...

We were missing Letang, Pouliot, Ehrhoff, and Maatta. For a team that was built for the transition game, you really think Martin, Dumoulin, Chorney, Cole, Lovejoy and Scuderi can pick up the slack?

If we're pointing fingers - Yes the Despres trade was bad.

But also bad is your star players not performing 2yrs in a row. 2 different management and coaching staffs.

You lot can point your fingers with your shiny tin foil hats and pitch forks at the guys up in head office and behind the bench, but the guys on the bench are not doing much either. Just as much to blame.

 

[KIRK]

The FA market is ****. It's been ****. It's going to continue to be ****. The way the NHL has been trending for several years, teams aren't letting their quality players reach free agency anymore. There's a concerted effort by teams to lock good, young guys up as soon as they can.

And here we are, standing here with tons of deadweight on board. Gigantic holes throughout our lineup. Sid and Geno one year older, one season's worth of injuries added on. No real top flight, blue chip prospects in the pipeline to feel optimistic about.

The best guys we can hope for are Matthias--an upgrade over Sutter, but a 3C regardless. Beleskey--an intriguing player, but one that screams one-hit-wonder. Soderberg? Would be another 3C here, making a ton of money--or worse, we'd have another "Geno to wing?" situation.

It's too late to rely on the draft anymore. Those kids aren't gonna be ready to come in and make an impact on this team for 4 years, assuming we don't completely **** up their development or trade them before then. Free agency is garbage for fixing legitimate holes in your lineup and building a contender. The deadline is the worst possible time to get assets to build a contender. That leaves us with trades, and the position we've put ourselves in with the wasting of draft picks/prospects for so many years means we're going to have to part with someone big in order to rebuild.

Johnston is Bylsma in disguise. JR has no power, and likely hasn't since the Neal trade. Lemieux couldn't give a **** as long as seats are filled and jerseys sell.

This franchise is doomed. It's done everything in its power over the last decade since being gifted with Sid and Geno to shoot itself in the foot repeatedly, and do literally everything the wrong way.

I fear all of this is a lot closer to the truth than further from it.

It's really not so much to ask.

Apparently it is.

While I am all for the whine party...

We were missing Letang, Pouliot, Ehrhoff, and Maatta. For a team that was built for the transition game, you really think Martin, Dumoulin, Chorney, Cole, Lovejoy and Scuderi can pick up the slack?

If we're pointing fingers - Yes the Despres trade was bad.

But also bad is your star players not performing 2yrs in a row. 2 different management and coaching staffs.

You lot can point your fingers with your shiny tin foil hats and pitch forks at the guys up in head office and behind the bench, but the guys on the bench are not doing much either. Just as much to blame.

Name a star in the league who has to make due with less than Sid. Name one that comes even sort of remotely close. And, no, Geno doesn't count.

This is why the Pens fail. The way the game is called and a team constructed in a way that the opposition can completely collapse around them without any consequence. And every time you say 'star players not performing 2 yrs in a row', you absolve the Pens of their catastrophic role in setting up Sid and Geno to fail. I mean, really, when have they succeeded against a team like this with the help they have? Detroit, 2009, only Geno, and that was as much because Datsyuk was hurt as it was because wingers don't matter.

 

[Shaftception]

The FA market is ****. It's been ****. It's going to continue to be ****. The way the NHL has been trending for several years, teams aren't letting their quality players reach free agency anymore. There's a concerted effort by teams to lock good, young guys up as soon as they can.

And here we are, standing here with tons of deadweight on board. Gigantic holes throughout our lineup. Sid and Geno one year older, one season's worth of injuries added on. No real top flight, blue chip prospects in the pipeline to feel optimistic about.

The best guys we can hope for are Matthias--an upgrade over Sutter, but a 3C regardless. Beleskey--an intriguing player, but one that screams one-hit-wonder. Soderberg? Would be another 3C here, making a ton of money--or worse, we'd have another "Geno to wing?" situation.

It's too late to rely on the draft anymore. Those kids aren't gonna be ready to come in and make an impact on this team for 4 years, assuming we don't completely **** up their development or trade them before then. Free agency is garbage for fixing legitimate holes in your lineup and building a contender. The deadline is the worst possible time to get assets to build a contender. That leaves us with trades, and the position we've put ourselves in with the wasting of draft picks/prospects for so many years means we're going to have to part with someone big in order to rebuild.

Johnston is Bylsma in disguise. JR has no power, and likely hasn't since the Neal trade. Lemieux couldn't give a **** as long as seats are filled and jerseys sell.

This franchise is doomed. It's done everything in its power over the last decade since being gifted with Sid and Geno to shoot itself in the foot repeatedly, and do literally everything the wrong way.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'd say that if you're keeping Kunitz in the top 6 and Scuderi on the roster no matter how poorly they perform, you aren't giving the roster you have the best chance to win.

We had options. We have a disturber in Farnham we could bring up for a spark. We have a dynamic young scoring wing prospect who our illustrious WBS beat writer thinks should have been called up. We have a very good young defenseman in Harrington who's better than Scuds in every way.

But instead we stuck with what we knew didn't work and expected different results. Can't be surprised when that team falters.

Farnham isn't the difference of them moving forward. I'll give you KK, but there are no guarantees. KK doesn't fix the fact they were depleted on the back end.

There was no fix that was going to change the outcome. Maybe you get extremely lucky and get a final game at the CEC before they succumb to the Rangers, but they only gave up 2 goals in 4 of the games which brings you back to scoring goals. Something Farnham doesn't do. Somewhere somebody needed to step up to the plate but too few did at forward. Kunitz wan't the only one to single out here. They needed more from everybody to pull this off. It didn't happen.

 

[JackFr]

Rutherford had the right ideas but nothing in the team's philosophy changed from Shero and Dan. The PR was spot-on and said all the right things, but the people in charge were the same other than Rutherford. When it came down to it, the biggest piece of the locker room we traded was James Neal. That wasn't acceptable.

If I'm JR with 20/20 hindsight there's a few things I do differently:

1. Get a draft pick in the Neal deal
Even a 3rd would have been huge for this team. Hornqvist was definitely worth getting, but the value just didn't seem equal, and not getting any futures was a bad sign.

2. Sign Vrbata instead of Ehrhoff
Ehrhoff looked like a great signing at the time, but it turned out the team wasn't willing to play to his strengths and use him in a PP role, so he was just another soft two-way defenceman on this team. Vrbata on the other hand had the killer season we all knew he would, and only had one more year than Ehrhoff.

3. Trade Brandon Sutter for David Perron
That 1st round pick turned out to be a lot more valuable than Sutter, and we wouldn't have lost that asset. Keeping our 1st would have helped a lot.

4. Don't trade Despres for Lovejoy
Obviously.

Without Vrbata, and if we were still "all in", then at least

5. Trade Winnik assets for Jagr instead
There's no doubt that Jagr would have had a much greater effect on this team than Winnik in the playoffs. I'd rather keep the picks, but if we had to trade them then he would have been a better return.

Oh well. Better luck next year.