OT: Russia/Ukraine and the Washington Capitals thread (mod warning post #1)

[CapitalsCupReality]

who watch News on TV? lol

I watch hockey with JoeB and Locker. I can live without watching news on TV for decade easily.
some don't like hockey and watch say Netflix or some other type of entertainment. most have apps on TV now which enable them to watch anything on demand. news will be the last thing to watch.

we use forums or similar. everyone chooses his preferable community and discuss things there.

it's common to know foreign languages (every educated person knows English at least). I know two foreign languages, for example. nothing is limiting me from getting info on the internet.

so, everything you said sounds like BS

curious what your go to reputable news sources are….outside of Russia.

 

[Raikkonen]

Thanks for providing your perspective from inside Russia. I for one appreciate having the opportunity to see diverse points of view.
With all respect, I'll select what seems the most obvious of your statements to question ... are you aware of any independent, non-aligned experts who support this contention, or is this your take based on the information available to you?

that's a take based on the info available,
also you can look for an expert in NA you may happen to know, if you wish
otherwise I don't think independent experts exist. how would they be ones?

there are some theories of what could happen next, and I think we won't see nuclear war

just the planet divided by zones where main subjects will dominate (US, Russia and China having their own, others not so much)

that's another yalta basically and some decades until next crisis (no NATO and EU to shreds)

I think that's highly probable

 

[Hint1k]

Nah, the media has some but not a whole lot to do with it. I mean it's not like Russians don't have access to the internet.

Well, it is not that simple.

About 95% of Russians don't know English well enough to easily use it to get information. And even those who are more or less capable of reading news in English would not do it. Cause it requires some effort. While reading in Russian does not.

Even if you give people in Russia some information in Russian that contradicts information they get from the official Russian sources, they simply would not believe it and stop listening to the source of it. Not because they are bad or stupid, it because they basically live in a bubble, in a virtual reality created by the state owned mass media. And it is really hard to pierce that babble, since the Russian mass media have been brainwashing people for 20 years already.

Which is why it is crucially important for Oveckin to speak up. He is famous enough, people would at least listen to him.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

that's a take based on the info available,
also you can look for an expert in NA you may happen to know, if you wish
otherwise I don't think independent experts exist. how would they be ones?

there are some theories of what could happen next, and I think we won't see nuclear war

just the planet divided by zones where main subjects will dominate (US, Russia and China having their own, others not so much)

that's another yalta basically and some decades until next crisis (no NATO and EU to shreds)

I think that's highly probable

Understood about "independent" experts. Everyone comes with his/her own point of view. I would guess that it's just as possible that NATO could wipe out most of any non-member's forces.

The world may be moving toward a new spheres of influence type of alignment. I see the difficulties in keeping the EU together but would not dismiss its continuance. Also, NATO to some extent is a group of states with similar philosophies re. governance. While some may tend toward more authoritarian leadership (e.g., Hungary) and others may be more pretend democracies (citizens vote but elites pull the strings), overall their populace expects to have a direct voice in political decisionmaking, in contrast to what appears to be the majority view in Russia and China.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I've seen a handful of posters here, and a ton of posts elsewhere, claiming that Ovechkin's family being in Russia is the rationale behind why he didn't make any bolder statements against Putin in the press conference. Any Caps fans buying into that are willfully deceiving themselves. It doesn't matter if Ovie's wife, children, and parents were in Russia or sitting right next to him in DC, he would have made the "Putin is my President" statements and refused to rebuke Putin regardless. Ovechkin has a long and repeated history of outspoken support for Vladimir Putin. Well beyond what other Russian athletes have done. He's had multiple public appearances and photo ops with Putin. He's campaigned for Putin both in person and online. Not only is his Instagram profile still featuring Putin, but his multiple #PutinTeam posts from 2017 are still up, his picture of himself voting for Putin in the 2018 Russian election is still up, as is his 2014 post spouting Putin's propoganda about the illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2008 Georgian war didn't change Ovie's support for Putin. The The 2014 annexation of Crimea caused Ovie to double down on his support for Putin. He's flocked to pro-Putin issues inside of US politics. Why do people think he's not a supporter of Putin now?

His support goes well beyond what other Russian athletes are doing. And I'm not just talking about outspoken Putin critics, like Artemi Panarin. But Ovie's "no war" statement was caged around by talk of Putin being his president and a bunch of other p***yfooting. Nikita Zadorov and Andrey Rublev needed no such qualifications on their statements.

Ovechkin is our team's captain. He owns a piece of our hearts. He brought a major Championship to DC, something that hadn't been done in 25 years. He's the greatest goal scorer of our generation, and perhaps all time. But his geopolitical opinions are garbage. All of those things can coexist at once. Just because he's a great hockey player, and one of our favorites, doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that he's in the wrong on this issue. He doesn't need our "protection." Others calling him out on this doesn't make our fandom of him wrong. Plenty of our favorite athletes are assholes outside of the rink or off the field. We shouldn't be surprised that this also applies to Capitals players.

Do I think Ovechkin should be suspended or his captaincy stripped? Of course not. But the Capitals are going to have to find a way to get out in front of this issue in a more concrete way, and show support for Ukraine as an organization.

Well despite if we agree with political opinions or not, people are still entitled to an opinion and that goes for Ovy. When corporations are going to the extent of banning players based on where they're born or not allowing Russian born players because of politics it's gone too far imho. The same people who complain about racism and other "woke" topics are asking to ostracize a whole group of innocent Russians. It may not be racism or sexism, but it's sure is discrimination and hypocritical. In no way do I support Putin or his invasion over a sovereign nation, but I'm not going to clump a whole group of people into a category like many HF mains are posting the past few days. Let's say Ovy does support Putin? It's his choice and if he really believes it, it's his decision. I may not agree with it, but demanding folks to be political correct is downright not freedom. I do agree too many grown adults are putting entertainers and athletes on a pedestal. They are just normal everyday humans with a lot more money and egos. The same folks hating on Ovy today are the same ones who've hated him since he came into the NHL and will find any fault in him. I don't see people lining up and calling out Lebron and other sports figures for praising the CCP. I'm not pointing at you Hivemind, but too many HF posters have been picking on Ovy and act like they are the moral standard in life. If they were to ban all Russian players in the NHL a lot of teams will be seriously hurting and it will reflect badly on the NHL if they were do that.

 

[usiel]

well, guys, you don't know much about Russia it seems

if you need my input and mods will allow it, I will right down what is happening and where ovi is in that

Hard to take anything serious from a Chernobyl truther or any other truther.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Not a Caps fan. Not an Ovi fan but this really is a whole lot of nothing. Will blow over. Sponsors are notoriously skittish. Wouldn't put much weight on their actions.

Just my 2 cents. Say a prayer for Ukraine. They need it.

 

[EroCaps]

This will age poorly for CCM. They’ll eventually be exposed for the obvious xenophobia and careers will be destroyed.

But hey, they look virtuous for a few weeks.

That’s what matters to our f***wit culture.

 

[Raikkonen]

Hard to take anything serious from a Chernobyl truther or any other truther.

you're decades behind us in nuclear technologies
but somehow you know the truth, right
watching news I guess?
I'm fairly sure you can get US expert that will confirm your tech is shit in this sphere

 

[Hivemind]

you're decades behind us in nuclear technologies
but somehow you know the truth, right
watching news I guess?
I'm fairly sure you can get US expert that will confirm your tech is shit in this sphere

Oh right, you're nuclear technology is so good that you have a shitty diesel powered aircraft carrier that belch out such thick and noxious fumes that they can be easily tracked from space.
Or is it the multiple disasters that strike your nuclear submarine fleet?
Or is it that your nuclear arsenal has continued to have issues, including as recently as 2019?

 

[TRASHCAT]

Ovechkins support of Putin is unforgivable. The guy is a monster and even in 2017 anyone could have seen it. He still has his instagram photo up?

 

[TRASHCAT]

who are those nazi in Ukraine? they are US sponsored terrorists. this is why they are painted different on your side of the pond. that's your weapon against Russia.

Your country literally sent nazi's Wagner Group - Wikipedia to kill the grandson of a holocaust victim.

 

[pelderhostiga]

I don't think you really read what I posted. There was a LOT of disinformation. Something like 70% of Russians supported Putin because of his propaganda in 2014. It's right there in the article. And I notice you liked the post above someone else made describing how complete Putin's control on Russian media is.

It's about reasonable expectations for the time period. Looking back without context is presentism. And assuming Russians have access to the same info we have here is a bit ethnocentric.

You can take hard line all you want. It doesn't change the fact that people get lied to by leaders they trust.

Again, the question is whether or not they learn from mistakes. That's still undecided.

Can you personally guarantee Ovechkin's family will be safe?

I know all about propaganda and disinformation, but I still think Ovechkin's actions are so far over the line that a simple apology doesn't cut it anymore. I can understand your (and others) points of view and I can see why my views seem harsh, but I just don't see a way for Ovechkin to come on top here. It would be far more plausible for someone like Malkin to use the "victim of propaganda" defence since he was part of PutinTeam but he was never a vocal supporter of Putin nor a poster boy for his campaigns. I know Putin is not Hitler (at least not yet) and I hate playing the Nazi card here, but if I recall correctly, in the past it hasn't been enough to just apologize after decades long support of despots nor should it have been, no matter how unfounded the support was. And to think that Ovechkin hasn't even made that simple apology yet! Every day that goes by makes it harder and harder to defend Ovechkin's position.

I'm not trying to intentionally bash on Ovechkin and I'm sorry that my posts make it look that way. He is one of my all time favorite hockey players and I have supported the Caps for a long time. It's just baffling to me how other Russian athletes have suffered from this situation and sanctions (not to mention regular Russian people in Russia and abroad) and Ovechkin should be allowed to keep his status and privileges while at the same time a) being far more influential than the rest of them and b) using his influence to support Putin and his campaigns. I know that people try to be as apolitical as they can in the US and especially when it comes to sports and superstars, but to think of how much backlash DeAngelo got just last year for what now seems like far less makes it all the more baffling.

I try to stay away from the argument about Ovechkin's family since to me it just seems like another excuse or unfounded conspiracy theory, and it has been debunked by many others before, but here's my two cents about the issue if someone wants it: If you have a serious fear that a despot will hurt your family when times get rough, maybe you shouldn't have been in bed with them for decades when times were good.

I know this post is a bit of a mess but I hope my points get across. As I said, I'm not trying to bash on Ovechkin or offend any posters here, but when I try to look at this as objectively as possible, it just seems to me that Ovechkin's position is untenable at the moment.

 

[TaLoN]

Closed, this is beyond the scope of hockey related matters.