WJC: Russia have phenomenal medals streak (2011-2017)
- Thread starter Bear12Good
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DamonDRW
Registered User
Well, this... and it is pretty strange as we always have a guy or two who are head and shoulders above the rest. This year it was Kaprizov. Last year it was Buchnevich. The last player who actually become a star was Kucherov.
Next year, we'll have Svechnikov.
Which other countries have "a lot of other names that jump out at you?" For Canada, McDavid and MacKinnon. For the USA, Matthews and Eichel. For Russia, Tarasenko and Panarin/Kucherov/Kuznetsov. Russia is doing pretty well in steadily producing good talent.
Those names may not jump out for him because he forgets that Russia has their own top notch domestic league. If you're a great junior in North America, you are going to end up in the NHL. However a great Russian hockey prospect has a couple of choices as to where he wants his career to play out.
It's a solid streak, but we need more Gold. Gold is the most important medal and the last time we've won was 2011. Bronze was good, but there's room for improvement.
Good points! If it were reversed, and the KHL was the big league and the NHL in second place, it would be Canadian players migrating en masse to Russia. Things would look different.
The system still lacks depth, and there is a glaring weakness, defense, that has not been seriously addressed. I think the best short-term plan to win gold would be to continue to expand the numbers of kids involved (not even 25% done in terms of recruiting all of the kids who could excel), which implies increasing facilities and resources, and at the same time, set aside a number of kids with elite skills for national development teams at various youth levels. You can't ask for Soviet-level results without using Soviet-style development and training methods to focus on the most talented.
People care about Bronze and Silver? To me, in this tournament, the US either wins Gold or they lost. Same for the Olympics. In 2014, I didn't even bother watching the Bronze medal game.
You have a very strange understanding of the diffrence between a WJC and top tournaments for grown ups then.
I care more for how many players from a WJC squad will be on the senior NT in the future then any medal. Medals are just an indicator of consistency in the development system. The difference between gold and bronze is much less important in juniors.
habsrule4eva3089
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- Nov 22, 2008
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How is that? You play to win. Do nhl fans celebrate losing in the conference finals or do they celebrate winning the Stanley cup? Why shud international hockey be any different?
It comes down to what we consider an 'all or nothing tournament'. OG, WC, Stanley Cup?...certainly. But a tourney comprised of ackward pimply kids, many of whom won't even be playing high level hockey in the future?
Yea everyone wants to win gold, but I'm not losing sleep over a WJC loss like I would more meaningful tournaments. As someone said, consistency at this level is most important when looking at the big picture.
Yea everyone wants to win gold, but I'm not losing sleep over a WJC loss like I would more meaningful tournaments. As someone said, consistency at this level is most important when looking at the big picture.
Russia have phenomenal medals streak (2011-2017)
2011- gold
2012-siver
2013- bronze
2014- bronze
2015- silver
2016 -silver
2017- bronze
magnificently
What so phanominal about it only 5 teams with a chance to medal.
They have a chance, but they don't. Russia has the best record overall out of those 5 teams in the recent WJCs if you count medals i.e. top 3 finishes. Consider it meaningless if you want. It is still a hard fact and a stat.
US has the best gold record with 3 gold medals since 2010, but in the years in which they failed to win gold they finished 3rd or lower so there is less consistency in their performance and that's what the OP was talking about praising the russian WJC record.
Nonetheless the US record is very impressive too. No other nation including Canada wins as much as the US or is as consistent inperformance as Russia.
Russia has been the best WJC nation in the 2011-2020 decade. That is a 7-year trend that, if continued, should ultimately put Russia in strong contention for Gold Medals in senior-level tournaments.
Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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I don't think Russia had outstanding rosters in these years, so this is a nice, albeit somewhat banal, accomplishment. If you have a chance, look at those rosters. They are merely okay. The best one won gold in 2011.
I hope to see deeper, more talented teams in the future. There is reason to believe that the late-90s, early-00s-born generations will show more talent. So hopefully Bragin won't need to pull a rabbit out of a hat almost every year.
Not many people remember this now, but the 2012 team that lost to Sweden in the final, in overtime, was badly outshot in that game - something like 50-15. It was an ugly game, our defense barely hanging on. Empty-headed Yakupov played terribly. That team had real problems, but somehow finished second.
Most of these listed teams were not great. But they were gutsy. Some good players along the way, but not enough.
I hope to see deeper, more talented teams in the future. There is reason to believe that the late-90s, early-00s-born generations will show more talent. So hopefully Bragin won't need to pull a rabbit out of a hat almost every year.
Not many people remember this now, but the 2012 team that lost to Sweden in the final, in overtime, was badly outshot in that game - something like 50-15. It was an ugly game, our defense barely hanging on. Empty-headed Yakupov played terribly. That team had real problems, but somehow finished second.
Most of these listed teams were not great. But they were gutsy. Some good players along the way, but not enough.
Nino33
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- Jul 5, 2015
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Except from the decade before, 2001-2010, Russia won 2 Gold and 3 Silver in the first 7 years and 8 medals over the 10 years and yet the team has not performed well in senior-level tournaments lately (actually at the senior-level they haven't won a best-on-best tournament since 1981, and haven't been in a final since 1998)
Like some others in this thread, I definitely find it odd that fans of the Russian team are celebrating "not winning" - the Russia I grew up watching (70s and 80s) had the same attitude as Canada's always had and the US has now, it was either win it all or it was considered a loss/poor performance
Fantomas
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Lowered expectations? Let's not forget that the Russian hockey system suffered terribly due the 1990s economic meltdown.
There is having high expectations and then there is ignoring reality. The Russian hockey system is being rebuilt from the floor up.
The era of 1970-80 to which you refer, the Soviet era, was an era of state sponsorship of hockey, and a domestic-based national team concept that used the most advanced science and training with the specific design of creating world championship teams. No such national and governmental effort exists today. As Fantomas mentioned, hockey almost went out of business in the 1990's, and the degree of recovery is impressive in many ways, although still far short of what would be needed to be as dominant as the Soviet teams were back then.
The number of rinks and the level of organization is still about the same as or less than the Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Finland. Overall, Russia is doing slightly better than the European counterparts at the WJC. The senior national team is a dysfunctional mess of clashing egos, less unity of purpose, and the general confusion and disorganization that goes with trying to blend NHL and KHL players at about 50-50 levels of representation. Further development of youth hockey in the form of the MHL will hopefully greatly increase the development of talent in the future.
Nino33
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I didn't refer to 1979-80 I said you had to go back to 1981 to get a winner in best-on-best (which means I'm referring to the last 35 years).
Regarding that 70s/80s era I've seen the players involved say that were treated like children/slaves + they were beating second level competition at the time (as everyone else had their best in the NHL, and nobody was forcing their players into hockey camps for 11 months of training a year)
And the KHL is no different than the Russian League then, it too is a ultimately a domestic League for the benefit of the National Team
In the time period you noted, from a point of view of actually winning, Finland's won more and Sweden's won the same (and both have done so more recently than Russia); my point was simply it seems odd to me how Russian fans celebrating "not winning" (and I don't see fans of other countries doing the same on the HFBoards)
These seem like excuses to me (and I think the clashing egos issue has been the primary issue for decades now, long before the KHL was created)
Fantomas
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Give me a break. There has been plenty of negativism as it is. Pointing out a silver lining is fine, especially - as has been stated - the Russian hockey system is in recovery.
You're suggesting that Russian should approach their teams with the same frame of reference as Soviet fans. But that would be delusional. And historically ignorant.
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