Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. III

[PK Cronin]

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Previous thread: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. II

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As I have said several times, I did not expect us to do much if anything. However, the bigger concern for me is how a team like Toronto who by all accounts were just as much up against the cap as us if not moreso, have managed to add decent bottom six forwards and defensemen, like Simmonds, Vesey, Brodie and Bogosian for basically pennies. They have upgraded their grittiness and depth with players better than we have in those positions and paying them 1 million or less. They have found a way to make their team better.

Go back to his first offseason here. He was roundly criticized for bringing in Martin, Komarov, Filppula and Lehner. The following season, he was criticized for replacing Lehner with Varlamov.

Every one of those moves were critical in turning the Islanders around and bringing them to game 6 of the Conference Final against the eventual Stanley Cup Champs.

That was Lou's impact on the team. Two years into his term and people are attacking him. Unreal considering the lot of you were begging for someone like him the prior two plus decades.

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[PK Cronin]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

 

[SI90]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

Those guys a good to help Toronto’s cap but they’re mostly plugs at this point.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

What?

Brodie got 5/20 which is hardly pennies.

They had to trade both Johnsson and Kapanen (last season) and now Vesey may wind up on one of the top two lines, a guy who has never scored 20 goals a season or mustered 40 points and Simmonds is a shell of his old self (8 measly goals last season).

Bogosian is hardly ever on the ice (missed over 150 games the last 4 seasons).

Who are these guys better than?

But, to answer your question (even if I disagree on them getting substantially better) is they don't have any long term contracts that they have to unload like we do (obvious answer)

 

[Jester9881]

As I have said several times, I did not expect us to do much if anything. However, the bigger concern for me is how a team like Toronto who by all accounts were just as much up against the cap as us if not moreso, have managed to add decent bottom six forwards and defensemen, like Simmonds, Vesey, Brodie and Bogosian for basically pennies. They have upgraded their grittiness and depth with players better than we have in those positions and paying them 1 million or less. They have found a way to make their team better.

Those guys don't come anywhere near fixing their deficiencies. Vesey and Simmonds came off the scrap heap, neither would be an upgrade to this team. This would be like if the Islanders signed Bobby Ryan and someone claimed they solved their problems without having to spend as much money as whoever ends up signing Hoffman.

 

[Beacon Isles]

As a bit of a reality check... if true, best you're going to see is shuffling bad contracts for bad contracts., and guys taking short term/bridge deals?

 

[PK Cronin]

As a bit of a reality check... if true, best you're going to see is shuffling bad contracts for bad contracts., and guys taking short term/bridge deals?

I think once another big fish lands we'll see teams starting to get creative with trades.

 

[IslesNorway]

As a bit of a reality check... if true, best you're going to see is shuffling bad contracts for bad contracts., and guys taking short term/bridge deals?

And people still believe we can trade our crap for picks???

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

 

[PK Cronin]

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

Brodie was given a real contract. I do not think Simmonds or Vesey are better than most of our bottom 6, no. A neutral swap at best.

 

[KrisBeKreame]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

Sorry replying to you as I'm lazy and don't want to try to get the reply correct. The Leafs have like 27k in cap space with only 10 forwards signed, They may have appeared to get better but they will have to surrender one of their top 4 to make it under the cap. Are they better? Time will tell.

 

[KrisBeKreame]

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

I think Bodie is only as good as his partner. I think he is going to be exposed for who he is playing top pair with Rielly.

 

[Tres Peleches]

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

I’m sure everyone thought Barrie was better than most of our defensemen too... and that turned out to be a disaster

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I know a lot of posters are singing the high praise for GM Lou and his move to get Pageau but let’s be honest anyone of us could’ve made the same deal by overpaying. The problem with overpaying is you need to have an abundance of cap Space or Prospects knocking on the door in which Lou has neither.

Granted, there's a little aftermath in these questions, but what are your thoughts on the following?:
A) Were picks 28 and 61 overpayment for a player in his prime for whom the organization is planning a key multifaceted role the next 5/6 years?
B) The stagnant cap came as a result of Covid. The belief is that the cap would otherwise be at around 84 M this offseason, with another jolt up to 86 M the year after. Was acquiring and signing Pageau a miscalculated move in light of that?
C) Are not Dobson, Sorokin, Bellows, Koivula, and Wahlstrom knocking on the door?

Just curious...

 

[PK Cronin]

 

[CupHolders]

And people still believe we can trade our crap for picks???

Where are you seeing people trading crap for picks? Maybe one or two people with regards to Leddy (who isn’t crap). But for the most part, posters have suggested trading crap for different crap.

Such as high cap players with low salary for low cap players with high salary. Or, players with more favorable buyout terms.

For example, Boston has a two year window with Bergeron. They want to win now and the can absorb large cash hits and some cap hits.

If they can’t score an UFA defenseman they WILL trade for one. Reportedly they want to move from Rask. So that means there is opportunity there. Do the Isles fit in as a trade partner... maybe, maybe not.

 

[CupHolders]

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

Yeah, but those Leaf forwards are likely to be asked to play higher in the lineup than the players you listed for the Isles.

 

[Chardo]

The quiet inactivity tells me that Lou believes Wahlstrom is the real deal, and that he is the forward add they need. I'm suspicious, but as they say, In Lou We Trust.

 

[leeroggy]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

This is Dubas channelling Garth Snow's annual Dumpster approach . . .

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Isles are working on unloading a contract. It's the new reality. IE Johnson TB, Don't expect much to come back. What Lou does with Ladd and Hickey also, that one is tougher.

 

[SI90]

Nobody wants to take on salary. It’s tough out there right now.

 

[leeroggy]

First of all Brodie is better than all of our dmen except for Pelech and Pulock. And You dont think Simmonds and Vesey are more useful than Michael Dal Colle, Leo Komarov and Tom Kuhnhackl?

Most Calgary fans will tell you he was not as effective without playing with Giordano. We'll see on him. Simmonds is shot as a top 6 player. He'll help out on toughness. Vesey is no more of a producer than Johnsson was, only a little cheaper. It's not the roster for Toronto, it's whether or not they are able to play PLAYOFF hockey when needed. It's one thing to progress a round a year, they haven't won a playoff series with this crew yet.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The quiet inactivity tells me that Lou believes Wahlstrom is the real deal, and that he is the forward add they need. I'm suspicious, but as they say, In Lou We Trust.

I think time is kind of on Lou's side as long as he's not interested in anyone on the UFA market (aside from maybe his own UFAs).

Tough, I know, especially when we see that Hoffman is still out there...

Trades will likely be a touch more amicable once some of the UFA dust settles.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I’m sure everyone thought Barrie was better than most of our defensemen too... and that turned out to be a disaster

No Barrie is good offensively, but Brodie is a much better all around defenseman than Barrie.

 

[Throttle]

@Satan'sIsland81 In what world are those players better than ours? Simmonds is a shell of his former self is about a 20-30 point scorer at best. Vesey is nothing. Bogosian isn't very good and was sheltered on a stacked Tampa Bay team.

But they did something so that means they are better...