Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. III

[periferal]

My 2 cents with Barzal, is get him to sign a 1 year deal with a high signing bonus low actual salary. If you get him to sign say something like 5M bonus, 1M salary, that is roughly 5.5Mish for playing 40-50 games

I hear you in theory, but there's just no way that Barzal accepts that. He's our best player and should be paid at least around where Lee is at 7M/year. If the season is shortened and/or players have to take pro-rated amounts of their overall salaries, Barzal (and his agents) are going to want him to be the highest paid player on the team - Not earning somewhere around their 3rd line center.

 

[Tres Peleches]

I hear you in theory, but there's just no way that Barzal accepts that. He's our best player and should be paid at least around where Lee is at 7M/year. If the season is shortened and/or players have to take pro-rated amounts of their overall salaries, Barzal (and his agents) are going to want him to be the highest paid player on the team - Not earning somewhere around their 3rd line center.

Difference is Barzal has virtually no leverage, outside of signing an OS. But with limited cap space league wide, who is in a position to do that?

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

I guess that would depend on what you think the reality is. Reality to me is that we lost a very good player and attempts by others to salve the wound by making it about relativism is a futile and disingenuous exercise.

Yes we lost a very good player, it is the reality of the situation. Harping on the Toews trade is just as futile. Sometimes you are the winner of these deals, other times not. The Blackhawks lost a real good player in Leddy when they were up against the Cap and now he's a core player for us.

Everyone knew something had to give and it was likely going to be a guy or two that stung a little. The guys eating a lot of space are players with negative value so the sooner we accept the reality as opposed to our idealistic projections and expectations regarding roster management during a global pandemic where revenues plummeted, the better off we'll be.

Alternatives could have been trading Pelech, Beauvillier, Nelson, Bailey, the other guys with positive value. This deal is not going to send the Isles into a free fall. I remember a few short years ago when the franchise player walked out the door and we've been on an upward trajectory since.

 

[Beacon Isles]

Here's an interesting question...

In order to obtain his rights, the Isles qualified Barzal as an RFA for basically 1,000,000 for 2020-2021. Obviously he's worth a heck of a lot more and let's just say that he would sign for 7M/year, but not less.

But what would happen if if after signing Pulock and making some other moves the Isles only have 3M in cap space when the season starts. They tell Barzal he can have all of it, but they're not prepared to trade 1st round picks or Wahlstrom, Dobson, etc to open up more (and of course maybe given all moves across the NHL by then maybe there aren't even opportunities to do that).

Of course I don't see Barzal's agents allowing him to accept such a deal so that would mean he just wouldn't play in 2020-2021? And would his rights toll into 2021-2022 or would he still become a UFA at age 27 regardless?

I ask this specifically with Barzal, but more philosophically overall because the Isles are in bad shape, but I legit don't know how the Lightning are going to resign their RFAs for market value starting with Sergachev.

I believe if they cant come to an agreement as a non-arb eligible RFA, and no one offer sheets them, their only recourse is to take whatever the team does offer or sit out. And as long as the team did tender a qualifying offer, they hold the players rights until 7 yrs of service or 27 years of age.

With the league trending younger, Im surprised the players havent pushed more to make all RFA's arbitration eligible.

 

[Beacon Isles]

I hear you in theory, but there's just no way that Barzal accepts that. He's our best player and should be paid at least around where Lee is at 7M/year. If the season is shortened and/or players have to take pro-rated amounts of their overall salaries, Barzal (and his agents) are going to want him to be the highest paid player on the team - Not earning somewhere around their 3rd line center.

As a 23 yr old non-arbitration eligible RFA, he literally has two choices. Eventually sign the best offer the team gives him, or sit out. I guess door #3 is someone offer sheets him, but thats less likely as the money dries up.

Young stars like Barzal get screwed with the current rules.

 

[Beacon Isles]

My 2 cents with Barzal, is get him to sign a 1 year deal with a high signing bonus low actual salary. If you get him to sign say something like 5M bonus, 1M salary, that is roughly 5.5Mish for playing 40-50 games

Thats pretty clever!

 

[Beacon Isles]

"All of the RFAs that end up going towards camp and holding out, you would do away with them if you had mutual arbitration kick in after the entry-level contract," he said. "By having this one dark year, you're putting some of the top restricted free agents into a Faustian bargain where they either take a deal with no leverage at below-market value or are being forced to hold out. Why?"

(A "dark year" is a year into which an RFA has no arbitration rights. Prior to 2005, there were two "dark years" for young players, but that was dropped to one in that CBA.)

This is Barzal's "dark year".

 

[boredmale]

I hear you in theory, but there's just no way that Barzal accepts that. He's our best player and should be paid at least around where Lee is at 7M/year. If the season is shortened and/or players have to take pro-rated amounts of their overall salaries, Barzal (and his agents) are going to want him to be the highest paid player on the team - Not earning somewhere around their 3rd line center.

So let's say we play 50 games. Lee and his 5.85M(actual salary) would make 50/82 * 5.85M = 3.56M (if Lee was getting paid his caphit(7M) that would be 4.23M)

What I suggested Barzal would get his 5M bonus + 50/82 * 1 = 5.61M

 

[Uncle Duke]

Here's an interesting question...

In order to obtain his rights, the Isles qualified Barzal as an RFA for basically 1,000,000 for 2020-2021. Obviously he's worth a heck of a lot more and let's just say that he would sign for 7M/year, but not less.

But what would happen if if after signing Pulock and making some other moves the Isles only have 3M in cap space when the season starts. They tell Barzal he can have all of it, but they're not prepared to trade 1st round picks or Wahlstrom, Dobson, etc to open up more (and of course maybe given all moves across the NHL by then maybe there aren't even opportunities to do that).

Of course I don't see Barzal's agents allowing him to accept such a deal so that would mean he just wouldn't play in 2020-2021? And would his rights toll into 2021-2022 or would he still become a UFA at age 27 regardless?

I ask this specifically with Barzal, but more philosophically overall because the Isles are in bad shape, but I legit don't know how the Lightning are going to resign their RFAs for market value starting with Sergachev.

I don't know all of the ins and outs what's permissible for RFAs in terms of communication with other teams or offer sheet protocols under those circumstances but it seems to me if it became known that the Isles simply can't pay him a fair salary, I would think that offer sheets would start coming in, even relatively low ones, that would be preferable to Barzal rather than being so grossly underpaid. But, again, I don't even know if what I just wrote is permissible under the RFA rules. Can you still offer one to an unsigned RFA once the season starts?

 

[boredmale]

Thats pretty clever!

If players are willing to sign a 1 year deal it's a way to lower the caphit compared to actual money they get

 

[Uncle Duke]

Yes we lost a very good player, it is the reality of the situation. Harping on the Toews trade is just as futile. Sometimes you are the winner of these deals, other times not. The Blackhawks lost a real good player in Leddy when they were up against the Cap and now he's a core player for us.

Everyone knew something had to give and it was likely going to be a guy or two that stung a little. The guys eating a lot of space are players with negative value so the sooner we accept the reality as opposed to our idealistic projections and expectations regarding roster management during a global pandemic where revenues plummeted, the better off we'll be.

Alternatives could have been trading Pelech, Beauvillier, Nelson, Bailey, the other guys with positive value. This deal is not going to send the Isles into a free fall. I remember a few short years ago when the franchise player walked out the door and we've been on an upward trajectory since.

I understand that a player of value was going to have to be moved one way or another, pre or post Covid. What bothers me is the people putting forth the notion that all of sudden he really wasn't that valuable. It was a loss that in no way makes the team better and I would prefer to read about acceptance of that fact rather than trying to rationalize it away.

As to your comment about the trajectory of the team, my concern is about the sustainability of that upward trajectory. We clearly view things differently there.

 

[SI]

Barzal 2 year contract at 6 AAV - take a page out of what San Jose did With Meier-

Year 1 - 4
Year 2 - 8

Year 3 qualifying offer I believe starts at 8.

you can use a heavy signing bonus for year 1 to protect Barzal from the roll off of salary and the escrow.

 

[IslesNorway]

Barzal 2 year contract at 6 AAV - take a page out of what San Jose did With Meier-

Year 1 - 4
Year 2 - 8

Year 3 qualifying offer I believe starts at 8.

you can use a heavy signing bonus for year 1 to protect Barzal from the roll off of salary and the escrow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the new CBA have changed the rules to avoid such deals

 

[SI]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the new CBA have changed the rules to avoid such deals

I just checked on that and you are correct - it is. Ow based on the average. Nice catch.

 

[boredmale]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the new CBA have changed the rules to avoid such deals

The new CBA will most likely make that a case but we aren't under a new CBA, they put it off for a couple of years

 

[crashthenet]

Barzal 2 year contract at 6 AAV - take a page out of what San Jose did With Meier-

Year 1 - 4
Year 2 - 8

Year 3 qualifying offer I believe starts at 8.

you can use a heavy signing bonus for year 1 to protect Barzal from the roll off of salary and the escrow.

I actually think this is how they get Martin back. A 2 year deal that is almost all bonus money.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

In all likelihood, Lou didnt just trade for 2 second round picks just to hang on to them and the money owed to all three of Boyhcuk (2/5.25). Komarov (2/3.5) and Hickey (2/3.75) are light enough to attach said assets (coupled possibly with the limited but still some value of Bellows, Koivula, Dal Colle or Ho-Sang) is most definitely going to be enough to get the required cap space we need to get Barzal, Pulock, Greene, Martin and Schnieder into the fold.

Granted, if we want to add ANYONE else it will need to be more than one of them moved and/or the big one (Boychuk) and/or Ladd destined to the LTIR- but trading Toews, for all case and purposes allowed us to breathe.

We can stop with the insanity that we are going to have to move Pulock (not happening) or will have to trade Dobson or Wahlstrom and I would also argue we arent moving a first rounder unless it is to sign Hoffman, the only FA left worth doing such a move (and it better be for more than one year if we do)

We just have to be patient and see how it all works out....

 

[Newsworthy]

We are the favorites to sign Martin so I think we are done making moves afterward. I'm sure it's on the cheap. So our roster is pretty much going to be the same as last year.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

I understand that a player of value was going to have to be moved one way or another, pre or post Covid. What bothers me is the people putting forth the notion that all of sudden he really wasn't that valuable. It was a loss that in no way makes the team better and I would prefer to read about acceptance of that fact rather than trying to rationalize it away.

As to your comment about the trajectory of the team, my concern is about the sustainability of that upward trajectory. We clearly view things differently there.

Yeah. I mean Toews was valuable, which is why a team was willing to trade for him.With regard to HF Isles sentiment, it seems Toews filled in the CdH role. The hype over CdH was a bit much for me. He was good but based on some of the posts here you'd think he was a Norris caliber player. Toews is a serviceable second pairing D on a good team but not a world beater.

With regard to the the trajectory of the team, there is cause for concern but I do believe we have a strong core of Barzal, Pageau, Beauvillier, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson, Sorokin to build around. It depends if some of the aforementioned can blossom before Bailey, Nelson, Lee fall off.

What's held the Islanders back has been the inability to develop top6 forwards in the last 6-7 years. Wahlstrom becoming that would do wonders for the Isles and I do believe Lou is going to pay Seattle to take someone like Eberle off our hands.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Yeah. I mean Toews was valuable, which is why a team was willing to trade for him.With regard to HF Isles sentiment, it seems Toews filled in the CdH role. The hype over CdH was a bit much for me. He was good but based on some of the posts here you'd think he was a Norris caliber player. Toews is a serviceable second pairing D on a good team but not a world beater.

With regard to the the trajectory of the team, there is cause for concern but I do believe we have a strong core of Barzal, Pageau, Beauvillier, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson, Sorokin to build around. It depends if some of the aforementioned can blossom before Bailey, Nelson, Lee fall off.

What's held the Islanders back has been the inability to develop top6 forwards in the last 6-7 years. Wahlstrom becoming that would do wonders for the Isles and I do believe Lou is going to pay Seattle to take someone like Eberle off our hands.

So much hinges on how Wahly, Dobber and Sorokin do. (If Wahly doesn't become part of some package - not sure how I feel about that).

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

So much hinges on how Wahly, Dobber and Sorokin do. (If Wahly doesn't become part of some package - not sure how I feel about that).

No doubt about it. I don't want Wahlstrom moved since we don't have the space to take on established top-6 forwards. Bellows was a potential chip but after testing positive for PEDs his value is at an all time low.

Sorokin and Dobson, I'm quite confident will transition to the league well and perform up to par. I'm not expecting Norris and Vezina seasons from either in the immediate future but if Sorokin can be a solid a 1B (very likely) and Dobson a second pairing guy by the end of this coming season we'll be on a good trajectory. Wahly is the wildcard, him panning out would really fill out the team with skill and scoring we've been lacking.

 

[PK Cronin]

Post limit, new thread: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. IV