Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Will Evander Kane Once Again be Our Biggest Addition Around the Trade Deadline?

[PBandJ]

You expect bus throws for the 2 best players in the League and our best defenceman. And that’s why you think there’s a bias against Jesse?

Yeah, god forbid anyone else be held accountable.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Picture this, you've been given every opportunity to make yourself an attractive trade target by getting fed top six minutes with two super elite talents and you can only muster 1 goal. That one super elite has stayed on after practise to help you work on rudimentary one-timers to try to improve your poor mechanics. Your head coach defends you as valued teammate despite showing zero cohesion with any line or player except maybe a small sample Nugent Hopkins who gets the regular assignment to work with rotating wingers.

I feel for Puljujarvi the person. Seems like a very likeable guy who has lost some of his fun loving personality through an inability to adjust his raw gifts into meaningful results against apex NHL competition. But he hasn't helped himself with preparing for North American life (learning English); working on his skills and adapting his game (so reliant on size against junior competition); and employing an agent that did not help a young, immature person/player to accept a non-direct route to the NHL. They chased the money and held to a belief that Puljujarvi was a top line player.

Now I do hold the organization to have the majority of culpability in this failed top four pick. Puljujarvi was not ready for NHL as a teenager. But this year the Oilers have done everything possible to try to help Puljujarvi to succeed and the player has not been up to it. Sad situation.

Find me a top line player making 3 million, my dude. He’s being paid like a low end 2nd liner at absolute best. He didn’t set out to only score one goal. He’s been making plays, taking the body, getting assists. He’s trying to play his way out of it. It’s not working and he’s frustrated. If he felt the organization or the media had his back, he’d have talked to them. They don’t, and can you blame him?

I’ve said all along Puljujarvi has some responsibility in this, but the people working their hardest to absolve the Oilers of their responsibility in this kind of disgust me.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yeah, god forbid anyone else be held accountable.

If Drai leaves the team you can bet he'll stick it to Matheson anytime he plays us.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You might want to go back and look at what was being said about JP when he was putting up those points. People were talking about how much he was asserting himself physically and how hard he was on the puck. Then he stopped doing that and went back to his more passive self possibly due to injury but who knows.

No one would ask him to be Zack Kassian. But I think it is 100% reasonable to ask him to use his size. But all of this is really beside the point. He has not succeeded as a top six forward. He can be very useful as a defensively responsible third liner, but he has to buy into that role. And in this case, buying in means recognizing the value in that job.

No, that’s not accurate. And I will seriously challenge you on any perceived lack of effort or buy in. The puck isn’t going in for him, but he’s still playing hard. More than I can say for some of the guys that we’ve had churn through here over the last few years.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Find me a top line player making 3 million, my dude. He’s being paid like a low end 2nd liner at absolute best. He didn’t set out to only score one goal. He’s been making plays, taking the body, getting assists. He’s trying to play his way out of it. It’s not working and he’s frustrated. If he felt the organization or the media had his back, he’d have talked to them. They don’t, and can you blame him?

I’ve said all along Puljujarvi has some responsibility in this, but the people working their hardest to absolve the Oilers of their responsibility in this kind of disgust me.

The Oilers are excellent at every facet of hockey, it's just the players that suck...

 

[Fourier]

But it's literally all of the main writers. Matheson, Spec, etc. They all do the exact same thing. Matheson had the gall to ask why Drai was being so pissy.

Spec is a hack. Matheson, who at one time was one of my go-to hockey writer, is now an old man whose time has past. I suspect almost everyone here would happy if they faded into the sunset.

 

[TheNumber4]

Then why all the griping about his contract? It’s a fair rate of pay for what he brought last year. People are acting like the had Ken Holland in the Iron Maiden until he got what he wanted and he got less than KY.

It was WIDELY reported that he was asked to change his game to be more physical during the playoffs. That’s clearly carried over to this season.

He started the season last year looking like a Top 6. It regressed into bottom 6. Then regressed into nearly useless in the playoffs. Considering the going rate of other options in this flat cap era and how many players were given away for free, you could argue that 3M was an overpay. Keep in mind the market sets the rate for what a players worth. No one wanted Jesse at 3M which should tell you something.

Woody actually just said the other night they want Jesse to use his big frame more effectively. That’s good advice. That one piece of direction provided to him did NOT tank his game this year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Spec is a hack. Matheson, who at one time was one of my go-to hockey writer, is now an old man whose time has past. I suspect almost everyone here would happy if they faded into the sunset.

And yet they're still employed to do a job that any schmuck could do. But they would never ever bite the hand that feeds.

 

[Fourier]

No, that’s not accurate. And I will seriously challenge you on any perceived lack of effort or buy in. The puck isn’t going in for him, but he’s still playing hard. More than I can say for some of the guys that we’ve had churn through here over the last few years.

I never said he was not playing hard. Look at my post history. I have repeatedly said that this version of JP has value. Just not at $3M on a capped-out team. By buy-in I mean that he needs to realize that there is real value to what he is doing. Clearly from the interview he does not. He is lamenting that he is not scoring and then suggest that maybe he should just move on to a league where he can.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah, god forbid anyone else be held accountable.

I can see the headlines now:

“McDavid and Draisaitl complete disappointments despite dominating the playoffs scoring”

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I never said he was not playing hard. Look at my post history. I have repeatedly said that this version of JP has value. Just not at $3M on a capped-out team. By buy-in I mean that he needs to realize that there is real value to what he is doing. Clearly from the interview he does not. He is lamenting that he is not scoring and then suggest that maybe he should just move on to a league where he can.

He’s a fourth overall pick that’s been a scorer his whole life and the people that cover this team have had their knives in his back since he was a 19 year old kid. How quickly could you, or any of us, accept what is in a very real way a massive demotion? Especially when his teammates get chance after chance after chance and are never held accountable for it, seemingly?

If you’re told you’re a piece of shit over and over and over again by people you see every day, eventually you start to believe it too. Especially when doing all the little things and taking the body and being defensively responsible supposedly has value but all you ever hear about is “one goal” from the writers for this team, like parrots with frontal lobotomies?

 

[Ninety7]

I really don’t understand the hostility towards this player. He’s not costing us games. He’s just kind of there.

His contract isn’t even the worst on the team.

 

[RegDunlop]

I mean he shouldn't even be with the org either way but that's another discussion.


Yes they brought him back and paid him... And that's basically where the support ends. The media is free to drag him through the mud so long as they don't offend their precious masters (paycheque goes poof otherwise).


The Oilers have never, ever earned the benefit of the doubt. This situation is no different. You just know the knives will come out the second he leaves the team. Hall and Eberle were lazy, Yakupov was stupid, JP was selfish or whatever nonsense they come up.

Yours (and many others) arguments may be true.

But for me the bottom line is that there has never been a top 6 quality nhl player there. Compassionately or not, as a fan of watching my team ice the best player(s) possible, we need to move on.
At any cost.

 

[PBandJ]

I can see the headlines now:

“McDavid and Draisaitl complete disappointments despite dominating the playoffs scoring”

Or, you know:

"Is $9.5 million too much for a defenseman that doesn't play defense?"

Or what about "Does $12.5 million a year buy any defensive effort?"

You know, treat them like you treat anyone else. But that won't happen.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Find me a top line player making 3 million, my dude. He’s being paid like a low end 2nd liner at absolute best. He didn’t set out to only score one goal. He’s been making plays, taking the body, getting assists. He’s trying to play his way out of it. It’s not working and he’s frustrated. If he felt the organization or the media had his back, he’d have talked to them. They don’t, and can you blame him?

I’ve said all along Puljujarvi has some responsibility in this, but the people working their hardest to absolve the Oilers of their responsibility in this kind of disgust me.

Here's the trick. He's not a top line player, my dude. Check the stat line (going back 60 games). The $3 million salary is now a millstone trying to deal him - stated as such in the Finnish interview.

Been given top six ice-time though to try to make the player marketable. Puljujarvi has not stood up to his part of the bargain. Play well be marketable for a trade. Instead the league has seen a player who can manage two areas of the ice, mostly completely lost in the offensive zone, and carrying a $3 million price tag for third/fourth line productivity. Woodcroft taking the media attention to deflect around Puljujarvi's decision to air grievances with media and now the team is in the stew for it. Needless distraction for a struggling team caused by a player with 6 points and -12.

I have empathy for Puljujarvi and per my post (and all of my posts on the player) as pinning the 50%+ accountability on the Oilers inept management for badly handing an immature 18 year old top 4 pick. This year though, it's on Puljujarvi and his bad judgement agent. They've not held up their end to be productive on the ice and NOT a distraction off of it.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Or, you know:

"Is $9.5 million too much for a defenseman that doesn't play defense?"

Or what about "Does $12.5 million a year buy any defensive effort?"

You know, treat them like you treat anyone else. But that won't happen.

Fair, I often thing the 2 players who are responsible for nearly all of the team's success are the reason the team is bad.

 

[TheNumber4]

To clarify my statements, I’m not even a Jesse hater. I still believed in him 2 years ago, I believed in him last year, I believed he could rebound this year. I believe he’s a legit NHLer that could be a good player in any teams 3rd line. I think there’s still potential (even tho it’s dwindling) that he could play Top 6. My issue isn’t with Jesse the player, it’s with Lehto’s camp who would rather focus on stupid and downright dishonest PR campaigns that throw the organization under the bus to get Jesse where they want instead of just shutting the f*** up and just playing the game to get to where they want.

 

[Fourier]

And yet they're still employed to do a job that any schmuck could do. But they would never ever bite the hand that feeds.

As much as the NHL management is an old-boys club, so is the coverage. The job is not as easy as your comment makes it sound. I am sure you know that. But there are lots of talented writers who could do a great job who will never get a chance because opportunities are few and far between.

I have a nephew who is experiencing this right now. Terrific young former multi-sport athlete who know sports like few people I know. He is also a creative and compelling writer, and a very driven guy with both a related university degree and a diploma in Sports Journalism from the excellent program at Centennial College . But all he can get is piecework on the side becuase guys like Spec and Matheson can work for ever despite some of the drivel they put out. It's a shame because he'd be a terrific young sports reporter.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Here's the trick. He's not a top line player, my dude. Check the stat line (going back 60 games). The $3 million salary is now a millstone trying to deal him - stated as such in the Finnish interview.

Been given top six ice-time though to try to make the player marketable. Puljujarvi has not stood up to his part of the bargain. Play well be marketable for a trade. Instead the league has seen a player who can manage two areas of the ice, mostly completely lost in the offensive zone, and carrying a $3 million price tag for third/fourth line productivity. Woodcroft taking the media attention to deflect around Puljujarvi's decision to air grievances with media and now the team is in the stew for it. Needless distraction for a struggling team caused by a player with 6 points and -12.

I have empathy for Puljujarvi and per my post (and all of my posts on the player) as pinning the 50%+ accountability on the Oilers inept management for badly handing an immature 18 year old top 4 pick. This year though, it's on Puljujarvi and his bad judgement agent. They've not held up their end to be productive on the ice and NOT a distraction off of it.

"They chased the money and held to a belief that Puljujarvi was a top line player."

Your words, not mine. I never said he was a top line player. HE has never said he's a top line player, either. You said he thought he did. All he's ever said is he wants to play in the top six. Personally I don't want a guy that CAN score goals and HAS played well in the top six to come in with the mentality that the third line is okay, because that means he's given up and that's a loser's mentality in my view. Athletes NEED a degree of cockiness to be successful, and it bugs me that similar things aren't said of Yamamoto when he's been every bit as bad as Puljujarvi and still gets every chance in the world to coast around on Draisaitl's wing game in and game out.

Do you want to know how many guys in this league make more money than Puljujarvi? 334.

That means on average, every single team in this league has more than 10 guys making more money than he does.

Some guys on here are acting like Puljujarvi reached into their own wallets, took money they needed to feed their families, and punched them in the nuts.

 

[RegDunlop]

Yeah all he’s doing is giving other teams even less incentive to take a chance on him.

From the outside looking in, the Oilers have been very accommodating with the player. They’ve worked with him, allowed him a season back home to try to work the kinks out, they’ve negotiated and paid him fair, even if it was maybe detrimental to the roster but they stuck with it and showed belief in the player. They gave him ample opportunity with our best players and they’ve tried him in other roles as well.

At this point Lehto is making himself look like a clown and frankly a poor pro agent. What do they honestly expect to get in any other organization that they haven’t been afforded here? As well he should realize that it’s a business and there is an order to things and teams have to do what’s best for the organization and throwing away an asset you’ve spent considerable time and effort developing before you’re absolutely sure it’s not going to work out is not a great way to operate.

Agree whole heartedly.

Watching everything this org has done since wha days, there is lots to shit on about how they went about their business. Especially with personnel.

But JP is not one of those instances. In fact I cant remember any other case where the Oilers bent over almost backward to accommodate this fella.

And for the Sourays, Comries, etc, there were also the MacTs, Kassians, etc.

I've hated the business side of my hockey team at many times in the past decades, but to suggest that they somehow did JP wrong is like Lucic bitching. He was given EVERY opportunity. And like you said, he really could (and was) growing into a folk hero / fan fav.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

To clarify my statements, I’m not even a Jesse hater. I still believed in him 2 years ago, I believed in him last year, I believed he could rebound this year. I believe he’s a legit NHLer that could be a good player in any teams 3rd line. I think there’s still potential (even tho it’s dwindling) that he could play Top 6. My issue isn’t with Jesse the player, it’s with Lehto’s camp who would rather focus on stupid and downright dishonest PR campaigns that throw the organization under the bus to get Jesse where they want instead of just shutting the f*** up and just playing the game to get to where they want.

Jesse should have fired Lehto years ago, we're in agreement there, but he seems like a loyal kid. He gave the Oilers another chance after they lied to him and broke promises to him. In a lot of ways, player agents can become like family to some of these guys. Hard to move on, sometimes.

 

[TheNumber4]

Or, you know:

"Is $9.5 million too much for a defenseman that doesn't play defense?"

Or what about "Does $12.5 million a year buy any defensive effort?"

You know, treat them like you treat anyone else. But that won't happen.

You know your still literally talking about ONE guy, Spector, and not the Oilers or their media as a whole right? Don’t let Spector get you all twisted where you advocate for the equal criticizing of our best players so that this imagined equality in reporting can be reached.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

And yet they're still employed to do a job that any schmuck could do. But they would never ever bite the hand that feeds.

I've suspected this to be an Issue for quite a long time, extends to TV also.
For example, when Debrusk is doing colour on a national game he comes across with some great unbiased insight. Yet, on the regional broadcasts he says some rather cringy stuff.
I totally understand and expect a home bias on regional coverage but some of it is way over the top.
and Michaels is another level all together.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Well that's just f***in' dumb. Wonder what he'd say about fans of the Oilers' brass? I'm going to get his lips were real tight on that subject.

They were talking about PJ not the Oiler brass. So yeah nothing was said.

 

[TheNumber4]

Jesse should have fired Lehto years ago, we're in agreement there, but he seems like a loyal kid. He gave the Oilers another chance after they lied to him and broke promises to him. In a lot of ways, player agents can become like family to some of these guys. Hard to move on, sometimes.

Lehto’s a joke. But what lies did the Oilers break towards Jesse?