TSN: Ruff here to stay!

[PKs Broken Stick]

I was disappointed with Ruff getting an extension. He is a great regular season coach but IMO not a great playoff season coach. My opinion. I wouldn't mind if they got an associate coach that could assist Ruff come playoff time. But instead they hired Travis Green.
Travis Green was only an NHL head coach for the Vancover Canucks starting in 2017. His
record:
17-18' 31W 40 L
18-19' 35 W 36 L
19-20' 36 W 27 L
20-21' 23 W 29 L
21-22' 8 W 15 L FIRED

this is the associate coach to help Ruff? I don't think so. You say Ruff doesn't need help he can think his feet in a playoff series against the best coaches. I don't agree. There is a large difference between a regular season game and a playoff game.

While I do agree, what kind of established coach would be willing to go under the head coach? We gunna get Lemaire out of retirement? Maybe someone really old would be willing

 

[Maine Fan]

While I do agree, what kind of established coach would be willing to go under the head coach? We gunna get Lemaire out of retirement? Maybe someone really old would be willing

I wish I could answer your question but I can't because I don't know who is available for Head Coach. But I would be satisfied with an associate coach that is not a loser like Travis Green to help Ruff. Someone that can think quickly and understands the players of the team and can help Ruff with changing lines while up against other good coaches that have been in the playoffs before. Example I don't think that Ruff can win a playoff game against a coach like Cassidy. Montgomery lost the Boston Bruins first round playoff run when Boston was up 3-0. He admitted after that he was the reason for the loss. Ruff and the team did well against the Rangers but couldn't play against the Hurricanes. The Hurricanes are better this season. Same coach BTW. Just an example.

 

[glenwo2]

How is he a typical 'right the ship' coach? He's only ever been a head coach 3 places - he had one job for 14+ years - and he didn't even right the ship here, the team was worse in both of his first two seasons.

The Sabres won the division before he got there with 92 points, they finished with 89 points his first season. They were a garbage team propped up by the best goalie of all time. The Stars missed the playoffs with 2 guys older than 40 in their top 5 in scoring, they got Ruff and Seguin and played uptempo hockey and made the playoffs with a middling roster.

It's possible Ruff can't get the team over the hump, but you would've said them having a season like last season with Ruff was absolutely impossible and laughed at anyone who claimed otherwise.

Patrick Roy and Marty Brodeur beg to differ.

 

[Triumph]

Patrick Roy and Marty Brodeur beg to differ.

They can beg and they are wrong. Dominik Hasek, especially during his run with the Sabres that overlaps with Ruff's tenure, is the greatest goalie of all time, and if the Sabres had had any sort of team at all, people would know that.

 

[JimEIV]

I hate how overrated Hasek was. Best goalie of all time my ass.

The dawning of meaningless stats based on the owners drunk friend counting phantom shots and poindexters trying to make sense of it all...

Anyway enjoy Hasek's career highlights

 

[Triumph]

I hate how overrated Hasek was. Best goalie of all time my ass.

The dawning of meaningless stats based on the owners drunk friend counting phantom shots and poindexters trying to make sense of it all...

Anyway enjoy Hasek's career highlights

lol. Hasek's SV% was 6 points lower on the road, and it still beats Brodeur's road save percentage. Hasek was the GOAT and he played behind absolute shit teams from around age 30 until the age of 36. His .925 SV% in 2005-06, recorded only in the beginning of the season because he got injured during the Olympics, is one of the greatest goaltending seasons of all time.

 

[JimEIV]

lol. Hasek's SV% was 6 points lower on the road, and it still beats Brodeur's road save percentage. Hasek was the GOAT and he played behind absolute shit teams from around age 30 until the age of 36. His .925 SV% in 2005-06, recorded only in the beginning of the season because he got injured during the Olympics, is one of the greatest goaltending seasons of all time.

Hasek was overrated.

AND the teams he played for were underrated....all for the sake of elevating his brand of seizure flopping.

 

[Bleedred]

Hasek’s Buffalo teams (mostly) were not very good. There’s Sabres fans that get mad at me for saying that, but it’s the truth. There were a few good players on those teams aside from Hasek, but those were not perennial playoff caliber teams without Hasek. That 94 Sabres team that it took the Devils 7 games to beat probably should have been out in 4 or 5 games. Actually, they probably should have missed the playoffs and not even played the Devils at all.

This is why it took Hasek leaving that team to win a cup. That was the first team even close to stacked (and they were stacked) that he ever played on. He came close to winning one in Buffalo.

Biron didn’t even perform badly at all the first year after Hasek left Buffalo, but it was only good enough for a 500 finish for them.

Biron had just an average season the next year and that Sabres team was good enough for only 72 points.

I don’t think Hasek is overrated at all.

 

[Triumph]

Hasek was overrated.

AND the teams he played for were underrated....all for the sake of elevating his brand of seizure flopping.

lol. okay. Yeah, underrated teams. in 1997 the Sabres leading scorers were Derek Plante, Brian Holzinger, Donald Audette, and Mike Peca. Their best D were Garry Galley, Alexei Zhitnik, and Richard Smehlik. The non-Hasek record of the team was 3-10-2. But yes, you're right, those teams are underrated and Hasek overrated.

Hasek is underrated. Never has such a great goalie been stuck on such a bad team. In this era, a team of the same relative quality as Buffalo is probably missing the playoffs a lot more often.

 

[JimEIV]

lol. okay. Yeah, underrated teams. in 1997 the Sabres leading scorers were Derek Plante, Brian Holzinger, Donald Audette, and Mike Peca. Their best D were Garry Galley, Alexei Zhitnik, and Richard Smehlik. The non-Hasek record of the team was 3-10-2. But yes, you're right, those teams are underrated and Hasek overrated.

Hasek is underrated. Never has such a great goalie been stuck on such a bad team. In this era, a team of the same relative quality as Buffalo is probably missing the playoffs a lot more often.

In 1997 Mike Pecca won the freaking Selke and was top 5 every year for the next 5 years. All of their forwards were good two way players stop with that

 

[Bleedred]

In 1997 Mike Pecca won the freaking Selke and was top 5 every year for the next 5 years. All of their forwards were good two way players stop with that

He was a good player, but he was sort of like a Travis Zajac. I almost said John Madden, but Peca was probably a bit better than Madden and Zajac was better than Madden.

 

[Guadana]

Why cant be both? Everything Buffalo owned was Hasek and they built the game around him. Didnt work around him, worked quite well with him. Hasek didnt looked really good in Detroit but somehow he clearly showed he had something in the tank after.

 

[JimEIV]

He was a good player, but he was sort of like a Travis Zajac. I almost said John Madden, but Peca was probably a bit better than Madden and Zajac was better than Madden.

Mike Pecca was considered one of the best defensive forward in the league for those few years in the late 90's along with Lehtinen.


Alex Zhitnik finished 12th in Norris voting in 1998 - Pecca finished 2nd in Selke voting the same year

Daryl Shannon finished 18th in Norris voting in 1999 Pecca finished 3rd in Selke voting. Curtis Brown finished 5th in Selke votes in 1999 for Buffalo.


So in 99 there are two top 5 Selke vote getters, a top 20 Norris vote getter and no one really mentions it they just talk about Hasek.

The idea that buffalo was "shitty team" is really just a shitty narrative solely to elevate Hasek

 

[Maine Fan]

Couldn't agree more and have pretty much said the same previously. Ruff is your typical "right the ship" coach, but can't get you over the hump. Hopefully it's only an additional 2 years. I've rambled about Ruff's track record and system issues (especially when it comes to playoff hockey) for long enough now. Just gonna hope for the best and that management is smart enough to pull the ripcord early if the team doesn't hit potential.

For example, if the team is relatively healthy, has a good regular season, but gets easily ousted in the playoffs in the 1st or 2nd round.....that isn't good enough. They can't have another Carolina series where it looks like they don't even belong. There are expectations now. It's different.

I also have been complaining about Ruff playoff coaching. This is why I have been saying he needs help during the playoffs against these best coaches and Losing HC Travis Green the Associate Devils Coach 2nd in command, taking over for Ruff if anything happens to him was a wrong choice.

 

[Bleedred]

Mike Pecca was considered one of the best defensive forward in the league for those few years in the late 90's along with Lehtinen.


Alex Zhitnik finished 12th in Norris voting in 1998 - Pecca finished 2nd in Selke voting the same year

Daryl Shannon finished 18th in Norris voting in 1999 Pecca finished 3rd in Selke voting. Curtis Brown finished 5th in Selke votes in 1999 for Buffalo.


So in 99 there are two top 5 Selke vote getters, a top 20 Norris vote getter and no one really mentions it they just talk about Hasek.

The idea that buffalo was "shitty team" is really just a shitty narrative solely to elevate Hasek

He was a great defensive forward, but he was also not one of the guys you would really want leading your team in scoring.

 

[JimEIV]

He was a great defensive forward, but he was also not one of the guys you would really want leading your team in scoring.

Now that's true..

Buffalo during those years never had high end scoring. It wasn't terrible though. In 97 the were 6th in the east out of 13 teams in Goals For with 237,

8th in 1998 out of 13 teams. 211
10th in 1999 out of 14 teams 207

The scoring wasn't great but their defense and defensive forwards were very good...and of course their goals against was top 3 everyone of those years but I'm just not willing to credit Hasek with that by himself.

New Jersey gave up 166 goals in 1998 it was the system... Buffalo gives up 175 goals in 1999 with two top 5 Selke vote getters and a top 20 Norris vote getter and it was all Hasek... now that's some bullshit.

 

[Satans Hockey]

I also have been complaining about Ruff playoff coaching. This is why I have been saying he needs help during the playoffs against these best coaches and Losing HC Travis Green the Associate Devils Coach 2nd in command, taking over for Ruff if anything happens to him was a wrong choice.

You keep harping on Travis Green being a "losing head coach" it's not like those Canucks teams he had were great. He's also coached an AHL team in Utica to the finals and won a WHL championship.

Doesn't matter how good or not good your coach is if you didn't have good enough players there in the first place and those Canucks teams simply weren't any good most of the years he was there. The only year they made it under his tenure was the covid playoffs and they knocked out the defending cup Champs and took Vegas to 7 that year.

 

[Triumph]

In 1997 Mike Pecca won the freaking Selke and was top 5 every year for the next 5 years. All of their forwards were good two way players stop with that

Why do you think that is? Have you given even a single second's thought to why a random decent forward on a team with the best goalie in the league would win the Selke Trophy, in a world where Center Ice doesn't exist and the voters are watching the guy 6 times a year, maximum? The Selke Trophy, before the days of microstats, was basically reputation, +/-, short-handed goals, in that order.

93-94 - Fedorov - +49, 3 SH goals
94-95 - Francis - +30 (led league), 0 SH goals
95-96 - Fedorov - +49, 3 SH goals
96-97 - Peca - +26 (led team), 6 SH goals (led league)
97-98 - Lehtinen - +19, 2 SH goals
98-99 - Lehtinen - +29, 1 SH goal
99-00 - Yzerman - +28, 2 SH goals
00-01 - Madden - +24, 3 SH goals
01-02 - Peca - +19, 6 SH goals

Peca was probably pretty good defensively, we can't say for sure how good he was but I imagine he was quite good. The only reason he ever won a Selke is because of Hasek. Forwards who play in front of a bad defense and average goaltending do not win Selke Trophies.

 

[Dylan9z9]

Top Goalies:
1. Martin Brodeur
2. Patrick Roy
3. Dominik Hasek
4. anybody else .

 

[glenwo2]

When I think of Greatest Goaltender of ALL-TIME, I think Roy and Marty. 1a and 1b.

Hasek is right behind them, though, despite his imitation of a fish that @JimEIV caught.

 

[JimEIV]

Does anyone remember when Borat shaved his mustache?

 

[Bleedred]

Remember, there’s a lot of people older than us that think guys like Dryden, Sawchuk, Plante and even Parent are the GOAT or better than any of the guys from the Hasek/Roy/Brodeur era.

Dryden didn’t play many years at all, and there’s quite a few nobody goalies that have more wins than he does.

But he also won the Vezina 5 of 8 seasons (really 5 of 7 as he only played 6 regular season games in his first year and didn’t qualify) and the cup 6 out of 8 seasons. He was on a very stacked team though, but his GSAA was pretty incredible in a very short career, but not quite Hasek’s numbers.

Sawchuk surprisingly has a - GSAA in his career, but it also wasn’t tracked the first 6 seasons he played.

But his 103 shutouts are very impressive for the era he played in.

 

[JimEIV]

Remember, there’s a lot of people older than us that think guys like Dryden, Sawchuk, Plante and even Parent are the GOAT or better than any of the guys from the Hasek/Roy/Brodeur era.

Dryden didn’t play many years at all, and there’s quite a few nobody goalies that have more wins than he does.

But he also won the Vezina 5 of 8 seasons (really 5 of 7 as he only played 6 regular season games in his first year and didn’t qualify) and the cup 6 out of 8 seasons. He was on a very stacked team though, but his GSAA was pretty incredible in a very short career, but not quite Hasek’s numbers.

Sawchuk surprisingly has a - GSAA in his career, but it also wasn’t tracked the first 6 seasons he played.

But his 103 shutouts are very impressive for the era he played in.

Did I ever tell you about the old man I met in a bar in Key West. We got talking and he said I went to Cornell...I said did you know Ken Dryden?

He said I was co-captain of the team with him...I said your kidding right? He busts out his phone and drops this picture on the bar. He goes that me on the left, all three Captains for an award dinner. Ken Dryden obviously in the middle.

Peter Tufford. We talked about hockey for two hours. He coached for 20 years after he finished playing.

Peter Tufford Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Peter Tufford, a hockey player and coach from St. Catharines, ONT born in 1946 who was active from 1963 to 1975.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[JimEIV]

When I got into hockey in 1980 Terry Sawchuk was spoken about as God. Then Jaques Plante.

One of my books I bought in the early or mid 80's had a line about Sawchuk's 103 Shutouts being "one of the most unbreakable records in all of sports "

 

[JimEIV]

And one more goalie thing

I do believe being able to handle the workload that Brodeur did at such a high level for so long is an incredible achievement that stat people refuse to acknowledge or dismiss out of hand.

If you look at Brodeur's record just during the period Hasek was in league and compare the two's record...
Hasek from 1991 to 2008 his whole career
735 games
20220 shots Against

Brodeur started a year later in 1992 and through 2008
968 games
24256 Shots Against.

4,036 more shots Against - 233 more games played - 149 more wins - 15 more Shutouts.

Please... Brodeur"s extras stats over Hasek during the same time by themselves would be top 137th All time winningest goalie.